Serious The afterlife pill beats the blackpill in terms of bleakness

[Fontaine]

One of my favorite activities on Reddit is going on subs like DebateReligion or atheism and trolling dumb normies about the afterlife. I take an evil pleasure in making them fear eternal damnation and other forms of torment after death.

Most atheists are quite ignorant and they tend to underestimate the intellectual brilliance of Christianity (this religion has relatively mediocre founding texts, but a very impressive scholarly tradition to back it).

For example they often tend to dismiss Pascal's Wager or think it has been "discredited". Nothing is farther from the truth. Because Christianity and Islam have the worst hells of all known religions (nothing beats eternal intense pain with no hope of ever escaping), the most rational strategy remains to hedge for the Abrahamic God risk rather than other risks. That way if the Abrahamic God is real you escape hell, if you believed in the wrong god you'll probably suffer but not as much.

Normies also think that sex before marriage or masturbation are not hellworthy sins, so I always like to trigger their horny mind with official church doctrine about this. It eventually gets to them, they become angry or start to use poor emotional arguments to defend their decadent and sinful lifestyle.

 

[Varys]

No point dying unless it's with my waifu.

I will keep struggling in this unjust hellish world until I meet her in Japan.

 

[Abomination]

I agree with OP for the most part regarding Pascal's Wager, but there is one small problem: if Pascal's Wager is the basis of your belief in the Abrahamic God, then you don't have true faith.

 

[Deleted member 13256]

Hmm I thought about it and I just can't will myself to believe. Even if I went to church every sunday and took communion and confessed my sins I still would only be doing it because of the .000000000001 chance that it's true. Therefore wouldn't I still go to hell?

 

[Fontaine]

I agree with OP for the most part regarding Pascal's Wager, but there is one small problem: if Pascal's Wager is the basis of your belief in the Abrahamic God, then you don't have true faith.

"True faith" is not necessary for salvation. You just need weak faith (fearing God and accepting the Trinity) and lack of sinful activities. Christianity was essentially spread through fear, violence and blackmail, not true faith.

Weak faith also usually leads to true faith eventually. The moral blackmail begins to infect your brain and you start to fear God so much that you eventually believe in Him.

Hmm I thought about it and I just can't will myself to believe. Even if I went to church every sunday and took communion and confessed my sins I still would only be doing it because of the .000000000001 chance that it's true. Therefore wouldn't I still go to hell?

Even if the chance God exists is only 0.00000000001, it still makes a lot of sense to believe because this qualifies as a tail risk / black swan / strongly asymmetrical risk. Nassim Taleb tore arrogant atheist normies a new asshole on the topic.

 

[Deleted member 13256]

"True faith" is not necessary for salvation. You just need weak faith (fearing God and accepting the Trinity) and lack of sinful activities. Christianity was essentially spread through fear, violence and blackmail, not true faith.

Weak faith also usually leads to true faith eventually. The moral blackmail begins to infect your brain and you start to fear God so much that you eventually believe in Him.

I'm saved! Hehe stupid god.

 

[Deleted member 12355]

eh, since we know of our origin story, and largely the origin story of the universe, it's reasonable to apply those same mechanisms by which everything else came into existence and ask yourself how God would emerge out of such mechanisms

 

[wizardcel]

You cope too much. I'd rather have passionate sex with a woman who desired me than eternity in heaven. There's no life after death. This existence is all you have and you've already wasted it away.

 

[NocturnalDecay]

It's always fun to see people have an existential crisis. I personally dont practice religion, but I can see it's usefulness if you need something to believe in and make you a hopeful individual.

 

[Abomination]

"True faith" is not necessary for salvation. You just need weak faith (fearing God and accepting the Trinity) and lack of sinful activities. Christianity was essentially spread through fear, violence and blackmail, not true faith.

Weak faith also usually leads to true faith eventually. The moral blackmail begins to infect your brain and you start to fear God so much that you eventually believe in Him.

This scares me to death because I'm ADDICTED to masturbation, and murderous thoughts and pure hatred consume my mind for almost half of my waking hours,and various other personality problems that lead to sin are ingrained deep into my psyche. I've also read that even the most 'devout' Christians are no less likely to engage in sin than atheists. What should I do? If what you say is the correct interpretation, then clearly it's logical to adhere to Christianity (or Islam, but I doubt Muhammed's life is a model that a loving God would posit), but there's no way I'd ever be a good Christian

 

[gylo]

Christian doctrine says you can sin all you want and repent right before you die and get into heaven. Same with Islam.

 

[Deleted member 5861]

This thread reminded me of this

 

[Ataris]

IDK isn't God infinite in his forgiveness as long as you repent b4 u die?

That was one of the justifications for George Sodini to commit his mass murder.

 

[BoltzmanOscillate]

Dismiss Pascal's wager
Nigga atheists on youtube have been answering that shit since 2009. Look it all up. There is no dismissal. Lowiq religion post.

 

[Deleted member 126]

 

[Fontaine]

You cope too much. I'd rather have passionate sex with a woman who desired me than eternity in heaven.

The goal of religion is not going to heaven but avoiding going to hell. Having "passionate sex with a woman" is a poor hedonic calculation if you spend an eternity being burned in a lake of molten sulphur as a result.

There's no life after death. This existence is all you have and you've already wasted it away.

While it seems indeed likely that God is a human invention, there is no absolute certainty, so the talebian principle of strong asymmetrical risk still stands.

 

[znbox]

religion is for dumb or weak people lol

 

[StaroRavager]

Religion is a cope

 

[Gremlincel]

Thanks I'm sure I won't have nightmares tonight.

 

[Fontaine]

Christian doctrine says you can sin all you want and repent right before you die and get into heaven. Same with Islam.

This is a heretical viewpoint. Roman Catholicism maintains the doctrine of Purgatory: repenting before death is not sufficient to avoid torture. While repenting gets you to heaven eventually, you are first tortured a variable amount of time, understood to be usually very long (centuries).

 

[wizardcel]

if you spend an eternity being burned in a lake of molten sulphur as a result.

Whatever helps you to keep the rope away, my friend

 

[Fontaine]

Religion is a cope

From a mathematical viewpoint, it's rather ignoring the tail risk of hell that is a cope. Atheists sleep more soundly than agnostics and believers due to their irrational dismissal of tail risks like this.

 

[Deleted member 11138]

Most atheists are quite ignorant and they tend to underestimate the intellectual brilliance of Christianity (this religion has relatively mediocre founding texts, but a very impressive scholarly tradition to back it).

True, but I think you are underestimating the text of Christianity. The King James Bible is the most powerful book to ever grace this earth. It is the Monarch of books. As far as literature is concerned it is King. Name one book that has had a more powerful impact on humanity as a whole more so than the King James Bible (Authorized Bible) You can't! This book has outsold any other book in the history of literature. It's by far the best book to ever be printed. The wisdom, science, poetry, songs, and moral guidance that this books has contained from cover to cover word to word is unparalleled.

 

[Untermenschcel]

atheism is meme. Just a front to be cool and edgy.

 

[StaroRavager]

From a mathematical viewpoint, it's rather ignoring the tail risk of hell that is a cope. Atheists sleep more soundly than agnostics and believers due to their irrational dismissal of tail risks like this.

I’m actually an insomniac but on to the topic at hand, Abrahamic religions have too many holes in them. Ignoring all the contradictions, fallacies, and straight up lies it presents, the texts themselves just scream human creation

 

[Crustaciouse]

"Only God can judge me" that's what normies say as they commit every sin in the book. The book that's supposed to tell us what God judges against.

 

[Untermenschcel]

Elliot Rodger was not an atheist therefore I am not an atheist

 

[Fontaine]

religion is for dumb or weak people lol

It's actually the exact reverse (and it's perhaps the hardest pill to swallow when you're in your late 20s): atheists are on average more mentally weak and dysfunctional than the religious.

I’m actually an insomniac but on to the topic at hand, Abrahamic religions have too many holes in them. Ignoring all the contradictions, fallacies, and straight up lies it presents, the texts themselves just scream human creation

It doesn't matter. Only thing that matters is the mathematical concept of tail risk.

 

[reroll]

Pascal's wager is wrong and below I'll explain why. PS the blackpill is based in science and statistics, here's some statistics for you -> every point of IQ or year of education makes you more likely to be atheist. Not a definitive argument but kind of a pointer vs the "hurr dumb atheists argument.

Pascal's wager can be put in maths, say we're maximising our outcome. So the outcome equation of doing what you need to as a Christian to go to the Christian heaven is O = p1(there is a christian god) * E1(following christian beliefs) + p2(there is not a christian god)*E2(following christian beliefs). p for probability E for expectation (what you get).

O = E1P1+E2P2 (1)
Also note p2 = 1-p1 so can rewrite:
O = E2+p1(E1-E2) (2)

and if we assume that E2 is small, p1E1 decides the sign and if E1is big enough game over.

Hold up though, is E2 small? E2 isn't just the cost of observing the Christian faith, it's also the cost of not following other faiths and being condemned to their hell.

Example - according to Satanism, following christian beliefs will condemn you to THEIR hell.
So if there were only those two credible religions, E2~=E1 and you have to decide which is more probable, so we're back to arguing about evidence.

But how many religions have existed? Thousands. How many /could/ exist, if there's no requirement for evidence? Infinite.

That's the problem with Pascal's wager, he implicitly assumes that only his religion /counts/ when measuring a big E, and that p is larger than a number divided by infinity. Unless there were good evidence for Christianity over and above any other religion, p1 is so close to zero that E1 can be close to infinity and it doesn't matter, plus E2 can also be infinity because ANY OTHER IMAGINED RELIGION could condemn you to hell, for ANYTHING.

tl;dr pascal's wager only applies if there is good evidence for the existence specifically of the christian god over and above all other religions, otherwise the infinities cancel out. But then we're back to asking for evidence for the Christian god so it hasn't bought us anything. Maybe it buys us being satisfied with a lower standard of evidence but the Christian faith still can't satisfy that above say, Satanism.

 

[Fontaine]

But how many religions have existed? Thousands. How many /could/ exist, if there's no requirement for evidence? Infinite.

That's the problem with Pascal's wager, he implicitly assumes that only his religion /counts/ when measuring a big E,

You obviously have not read the argument I made in my OP. Of course Pascal is arbitrary when he ignores all religions beside Christianity. But it does not matter because no hell can be worse than the hell of Christianity. In this situation the safest bet is practicing Christianity, a religion that actually has backing compared to imaginary potential religions.

 

[Deleted member 13256]

You obviously have not read the argument I made in my OP. Of course Pascal is arbitrary when he ignores all religions beside Christianity. But it does not matter because no hell can be worse than the hell of Christianity. In this situation the safest bet is practicing Christianity, a religion that actually has backing compared to imaginary potential religions.

What if I told you right now that if you don't believe in me as a god you'll experience a hell far worse than that pitiful abrahamic god could ever conceive of after you die?

 

[Incellectual]

You cope too much. I'd rather have passionate sex with a woman who desired me than eternity in heaven. There's no life after death. This existence is all you have and you've already wasted it away.

 

[znbox]

It's actually the exact reverse (and it's perhaps the hardest pill to swallow when you're in your late 20s): atheists are on average a lot mentally weaker and dysfunctional than the religious.

I understand where religion comes from — the necessity to teach people to act for the benefits of society. Like, you couldn't explain medieval peasants not to fuck outside marriage because of the spread of syphilis, but you could tell them it's a sin and they will burn in hell. People still fucked but not as often at least. Anything slightly religious comes from the animalistic nature of humans. Do you know there is a rule how to take a shit in the old testament? People were just uneducated monkeys and they needed guidance. If people evolved from cats, they wouldn't need this rule because felines, unlike monkeys, bury their shit.

Christianity was very fitting for the role of a guide.

Now, I don't need god or religion to teach me moral values. I don't need to be scared of god to not be a thief or a murderer, I don't even need the law, because I have my own morals, but the law helps of course.

You can never achieve perfection if you act out of fear of eternal damnation. So, ironically, to become a god, you need to reject god.

Some people need god, and that's okay. But they are weak. Don't pretend you aren't. I've been reading your posts and I enjoyed them, I think you have a high intellect, but you are severely depressed. Whatever you have in your life, it isn't enough for you, so you chose religion to cling on to. I understand. But don't think for a second that it's a sign of strength.

Some people take drugs or join cults, I chose art and medication, you chose religion. Other people may choose a family or career to fill the void. I imagine, there are people who are already enough, or are too dumb to want anything more. I envy them, to be honest.

But again, any christian argument makes no more sense then pastafarianist. So I want to remind you that the burden of proof lies on you.

 

[Fontaine]

What if I told you right now that if you don't believe in me as a god you'll experience a hell far worse than that pitiful abrahamic god could ever conceive of after you die?

1) I doubt you can do worse than burning me forever in molten brimstone.
2) Your story is harder to believe than Christianity, a religion with more historical backing and intellectual gravitas.

Now, I don't need god or religion to teach me moral values. I don't need to be scared of god to not be a thief or a murderer, I don't even need the law, because I have my own morals, but the law helps of course.

Are you euphoric too?

 

[Deleted member 13256]

1) I doubt you can do worse than burning me forever in molten brimstone.
2) Your story is harder to believe than Christianity, a religion with more historical backing and intellectual gravitas.

Oh you think the suffering you'll experience adheres to the laws of physics of this universe? How cute. Repent now and I might make you my pet.

 

[Fontaine]

Oh you think the suffering you'll experience adheres to the laws of physics of this universe?

There's only so much pain a human nervous system can take anyway...

Is it just me or atheistic arguments against Pascal's Wager are terrible?

 

[Deleted member 13256]

There's only so much pain a human nervous system can take anyway...

Is it just me or atheistic arguments against Pascal's Wager are terrible?

What humans? What atheists? Arguments? I was giving you a chance. But I can take a hint... You don't want to spend the afterlife with me. That's fine.

 

[Deleted member 11138]

You can never achieve perfection if you act out of fear of eternal damnation. So, ironically, to become a god, you need to reject god.

Some people need god, and that's okay. But they are weak. Don't pretend you aren't. I've been reading your posts and I enjoyed them, I think you have a high intellect, but you are severely depressed. Whatever you have in your life, it isn't enough for you, so you chose religion to cling on to. I understand. But don't think for a second that it's a sign of strength.

But again, any christian argument makes no more sense then pastafarianist. So I want to remind you that the burden of proof lies on you.

Absolute perfection is not required on the Christian's behalf. God requires absolute perfection sure. But Jesus Christ is the substitute. Christ bore the sins of man. Sin is imputed unto Christ. So when Jesus was on the Cross it was as if he committed all your sins. In turn by believing on him. His perfection, and obedience to the Law is imputed onto your account. It is as if you lived Christ's perfect life.

Christianity teaches that a perfect sacrifice is necessary for the redemption of sin. Since there is a perfect sacrifice in Jesus Christ a Christian can have faith in that, and God is pleased with the faith. Christian perfection is in Jesus Christ. It is not in observance to the Law. ( No man can observe the Law in perfection)

As far as burden of proof have you discovered God's non-existence? The burden of proof goes both ways.

 

[acnescarcel]

where would hell be located?

 

[Deleted member 11138]

where would hell be located?

In the heart of the earth as the Bible says.

 

[reroll]

You obviously have not read the argument I made in my OP. Of course Pascal is arbitrary when he ignores all religions beside Christianity. But it does not matter because no hell can be worse than the hell of Christianity. In this situation the safest bet is practicing Christianity, a religion that actually has backing compared to imaginary potential religions.

They don't have to be worse, just equally bad. If they're equally bad and the requirements conflict with Christian requirements then E2=E1 and you have to argue p1>0.5.

Why do you assume that Christian hell is worse than Satanist hell? I imagine if he was running the show Satan would really give the Christians an impressively shit time.

 

[acnescarcel]

In the heart of the earth as the Bible says.

so ghosts leave ur body and go to the earths core?

 

[znbox]

Absolute perfection is not required on the Christian's behalf. God requires absolute perfection sure. But Jesus Christ is the substitute. Christ bore the sins of man. Sin is imputed unto Christ. So when Jesus was on the Cross it was as if he committed all your sins. In turn by believing on him. His perfection, and obedience to the Law is imputed onto your account. It is as if you lived Christ's perfect life.

Christianity teaches that a perfect sacrifice is necessary for the redemption of sin. Since there is a perfect sacrifice in Jesus Christ a Christian can have faith in that, and God is pleased with the faith. Christian perfection is in Jesus Christ. It is not in observance to the Law. ( No man can observe the Law in perfection)

As far as burden of proof have you discovered God's non-existence? The burden of proof goes both ways.

Nope, burden of proof is about PROOF. If you think otherwise, prove to me that God isn't a flying spaghetti monster.

Absolute perfection is what required if you are a human. Well, at least striving for perfection.

Also, I'm pretty sure if religion was made up today, being an incel would be a sin. Let's just count how many deadly sins are broken here on daily basis here: we have wrath, lust, sloth, and envy already in almost every member, fatcels have also gluttony. I'm pretty sure incels who mention their high intelligence have also pride. Religion is cope, like many other things. Don't pretend it isn't.

 

[Deleted member 11138]

so ghosts leave ur body and go to the earths core?

Yes. The Bible says the (Silver cord) is what keeps a spirit attached to a body. Once the silver cord is cut you are dead, and the spirit leaves the body. A person can flat-line their heart rate for several minutes, and still live. This has been seen in medical history enough times that there is a distinct word describing what appears to be death, and actual death. (Clinically dead) A person can appear dead, but they are not clinically dead. I guess until the silver cord is cut.

There is such thing as spirit, and hell in the Christian literature.

Earth is described as a circle, with a heart. We know that a circle in three dimensions is a sphere. We also know that the heart of the sphere is a core. Since the crust is equidistant from the center.

In conclusion. Yes an unbelieving soul goes to Hell (The heart of the Earth) to be in fire, and brimstone.

 

[Anger]

Stop browsing reddit

 

[Deleted member 11138]

Nope, burden of proof is about PROOF. If you think otherwise, prove to me that God isn't a flying spaghetti monster.

Absolute perfection is what required if you are a human. Well, at least striving for perfection.

Also, I'm pretty sure if religion was made up today, being an incel would be a sin. Let's just count how many deadly sins are broken here on daily basis here: we have wrath, lust, sloth, and envy already in almost every member, fatcels have also gluttony. I'm pretty sure incels who mention their high intelligence have also pride. Religion is cope, like many other things. Don't pretend it isn't.

I said burden of proof goes both ways. Prove to me that God is a flying spaghetti monster. You can't. Yet you are on some pedestal about it. There is no way for me to prove God is real to you, just as equally as there is no way for you to prove God isn't real to me. Since science cannot prove / disprove deities because it is a system of conclusions based on consistent data subject to change, and cannot answer fundamental questions of value (Who am I? What am I worth? Are puppies, or kittens cuter? Which flower smells better? Is there a God?)

I don't need proof to believe what I do.

You feel like you need proof to believe in God that you absolutely don't believe in while not even having proof he doesn't exist in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 12355]

afterlife is only a cope mechanism thought up in people's heads to more aptly deal with the inherently temporary nature of life itself. We like the idea of the eternal because it feels safe and warm. This has then been used by religious leaders, particularly those of a muslim or christian bent, to scare people into submission. Ask yourself why God would even need to use the experiment of a temporary world to weed out those unloyal and unfaithful to him when he is supposedly all knowing to begin with. Then go unto the next illogical pillar upon which christianity, and religions alike it rests, and you will see the entire house of cards come tumbling down rather quickly.

 

[Opus132]

eh, since we know of our origin story

We do? Since when?

Science has no answer for any of the following:

1) Rise of consciousness
2) Rise of life from inert matter

And the ultimate kicker:

3) The rise of something out of nothing.

Actually, the real kicker is that science cannot even prove itself.

Either way, materialism defeats itself at the outset, for the very "fact" of existence is in itself metaphysical and thus supernatural.

 

[Deleted member 11138]

afterlife is only a cope mechanism thought up in people's heads to more aptly deal with the inherently temporary nature of life itself. We like the idea of the eternal because it feels safe and warm. This has then been used by religious leaders, particularly those of a muslim or christian bent, to scare people into submission. Ask yourself why God would even need to use the experiment of a temporary world to weed out those unloyal and unfaithful to him when he is supposedly all knowing to begin with. Then go unto the next illogical pillar upon which christianity, and religions alike it rests, and you will see the entire house of cards come tumbling down rather quickly.

God exists outside of time. God showed John the future, and then he wrote the book of Revelation. How can a man see the future that hasn't happened yet? It happened already that's how. Since God exists outside of time he has already seen the movie before it even came out. Why is this important? Because it's not an experiment to see who would, and wouldn't. He already knows who would, and wouldn't.

So why would God subject us, and HIM to a temporal world of suffering? (Don't forget God incarnate in human flesh Jesus Christ) suffered as a mere mortal.

Because he loves the human race. Out of all the beings he created "angels, archangels, animals, humans" he prized human beings as the greatest since we are made in his image. You assume that an all knowing God wouldn't feel sentimental about a creation because he knows the outcome already.

 

[ShadowMonk]

All scientific observations point to that when you die; you die and that's it. Game over. No afterlife of any kind.

Enjoy your religious cope.