Russian flagship in the Black Sea explodes and possibly sinks

[Zhou Chang-Xing]

Regardless whether it's true or not, I think they would look less incompetent if they say it was attacked lol

Corruption and bad maintenance. I'm surprised that Russia even dared to invade another major ex-Soviet country at this point, Georgia was easy because they have the same technology, but the Ukraine has been upgrading since 2014.

But yeah, it's sad that Russia is losing the conflict, hopefully Belarus will join the invasion soon with actual troops.

 

[PPEcel]

Were the equivalence not true, which it isn't, it would reflect worse on America. Russia is securing territory that has been controlled by moscow for most of its history. The former on the other hand wages wars half way across the planet

Odd phrasing because Kyiv's existence not only predates Moscow, but for most of the time that Kyiv was under Russian control, the capital of the Russian Empire was actually St. Petersburg, not Moscow. [UWSL]Maybe it's just me but whenever one offers a purely historical argument to suggest that a war is more legitimate than another, it ends up being extraordinarily flimsy and their logic applied extremely selectively. [/UWSL]

Seems interesting that some people will very readily condemn the United States' invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 but not the Soviet invasion in 1979, which set the stage for the Taliban's rise in the 1990s. When the Russians intervened in Syria in 2015, sent Wagner fucksticks to the Central African Republic, were they also securing territory held by Moscow for most of its history? [UWSL]I also wonder whether you would be alright if the Germans retook Königsberg, the Japanese the Kuril Islands, or if you'd denounce it as "U.S.-backed aggression". [/UWSL]

[UWSL]The major difference between the United States' interventions over the last three decades and Russia's actions in Ukraine is that territorial conquest was not part of the United States' ambitions, even if some of those interventions may have been strategic errors. And countries have largely sworn off territorial conquest in the post-war world, which makes Russia's actions particularly brazen. [/UWSL]

 

[InMinecraft]

Imagine losing to a bunch of ukraine
Jfl

 

[Caesercel]

Odd phrasing because Kyiv's existence not only predates Moscow, but for most of the time that Kyiv was under Russian control, the capital of the Russian Empire was actually St. Petersburg, not Moscow. [UWSL]Maybe it's just me but whenever one offers a purely historical argument to suggest that a war is more legitimate than another, it ends up being extraordinarily flimsy and their logic applied extremely selectively. [/UWSL]

Thanks for correcting the errors. Makes my arguments stronger.

Seems interesting that some people will very readily condemn the United States' invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 but not the Soviet invasion in 1979, which set the stage for the Taliban's rise in the 1990s. When the Russians intervened in Syria in 2015, sent Wagner fucksticks to the Central African Republic, were they also securing territory held by Moscow for most of its history? [UWSL]I also wonder whether you would be alright if the Germans retook Königsberg, the Japanese the Kuril Islands, or if you'd denounce it as "U.S.-backed aggression". [/UWSL]

The soviet invasion has been condemned hard enough already. Though its ironic that taliban be mentioned since US was instrumental in arming them to ward off the Soviets. Another entry in a long list of interventionism. Germany and Japan are US vassal states anyway so its mute point that any territorial aggression on their part would be US-backed aggression instead of attempts at securing borders.

All this is a distraction anyway since we are not comparing Russia's campaigns to any hypothetical future german/japanese invasion but the very real American wars and countless interventions.

[UWSL]The major difference between the United States' interventions over the last three decades and Russia's actions in Ukraine is that territorial conquest was not part of the United States' ambitions, even if some of those interventions may have been strategic errors. And countries have largely sworn off territorial conquest in the post-war world, which makes Russia's actions particularly brazen. [/UWSL]

Don't need territorial expansion when you have cuckold regimes in vassal states(sometimes brought about by violent regime change) , control of international sea trade and control of global finance through international debt.

Why would they need more territory if the US oligarchal nobility is making enough money as it is.

 

[PPEcel]

Thanks for correcting the errors. Makes my arguments stronger.

The soviet invasion has been condemned hard enough already. Though its ironic that taliban be mentioned since US was instrumental in arming them to ward off the Soviets. Another entry in a long list of interventionism. Germany and Japan are US vassal states anyway so its mute point that any territorial aggression on their part would be US-backed aggression instead of attempts at securing borders.

All this is a distraction anyway since we are not comparing Russia's campaigns to any hypothetical future german/japanese invasion but the very real American wars and countless interventions.

Don't need territorial expansion when you have cuckold regimes in vassal states(sometimes brought about by violent regime change) , control of international sea trade and control of global finance through international debt.

Why would they need more territory if the US oligarchal nobility is making enough money as it is.

Soviet invasion has been condemned hard enough but Afghanistan 2001 hasn't? What standard do you apply?

Germany and Japan are major powers in their own right and not U.S. vassals.

Whether or not the U.S. needs territorial conquest is beside the point. It's clear to anyone with a map that Russia has enough territory anyway. Point is that said conquest is more alarming.

 

[unsettling]

wow

 

[Zogpilled]

Does it really matter? No matter what happens chad wins

 

[Caesercel]

Soviet invasion has been condemned hard enough but Afghanistan 2001 hasn't? What standard do you apply?

I don't know how's that news to you. Maybe the idea that Soviet invasion was unjust is so ubiquitous that it never crossed your mind to give it due consideration.

Germany and Japan are major powers in their own right and not U.S. vassals.

Lol. Since 1945 they are. When was the last time either of them enforced an economic or military policy that could benefit them but truly threaten American hegemony. They barely have a military to begin with.

Whether or not the U.S. needs territorial conquest is beside the point. It's clear to anyone with a map that Russia has enough territory anyway. Point is that said conquest is more alarming.

Who says its a conquest? Its a "military operation". Russia is not after ukranian lands, they want to keep NATO missiles off those lands instead.

 

[WizardofSoda]

There is some debate about the number of dead. The Russians are claiming all 510 crew were rescued except possibly the captain. The Ukrainians are claiming all 510 crew died.

I am leaning towards that all 510 crew died. I think when a missile hits a ship that is loaded with all sort of missiles and ammunition and fuel that it will cause a chain explosion of all the fuel and explosives. Nobody is likely to survive that blast.

 

[Uninvited]

It's basically the Judeo-Rothschild western NWO versus the rest of the world at this point which is why I support Russia and China currently. If we oppressed men and people of the west are to stand a chance in having a future for ourselves then Washington D.C., London, and Brussels must fall. This will only happen once the dollar world reserve currency is utterly destroyed for that is the tool of our enslavement by (((them))).

Russia is the Succsessor state of the Soviet Jewion.
Do you think all those Marxist Jews who ruled the Soviet Jewion simply disappeared?
Russia is ruled by a Jewish Oligarch Mafia ✡

 

[MarquisDeSade]

Russia is the Succsessor state of the Soviet Jewion.
Do you think all those Marxist Jews who ruled the Soviet Jewion simply disappeared?
Russia is ruled by a Jewish Oligarch Mafia ✡

Yes, there are Jews in Russia as there are Jews virtually everywhere and many Russian industrialists are Russian Jews, but in my mind they're more nationalistic. Nationalistic Jews do exist, but Rothschild Jewry is very different specimen altogether because they're openly globalist world government. In the end Jews can't be trusted for obvious reasons but there are different divisions consisting of them.

 

[Uninvited]

Yes, there are Jews in Russia as there are Jews virtually everywhere and many Russian industrialists are Russian Jews, but in my mind they're more nationalistic. Nationalistic Jews do exist, but Rothschild Jewry is very different specimen altogether because they're openly globalist world government. In the end Jews can't be trusted for obvious reasons but there are different divisions consisting of them.

You know Jews rule both sides yet still believe in all this theatre
Left or Right, Capitalist or Communist, US or Russia.... You will end up with the Jew and the enslavement and mongrolisation of the Goyim ( specifically targeting whites)

 

[Deleted member 32725]

Odd phrasing because Kyiv's existence not only predates Moscow, but for most of the time that Kyiv was under Russian control, the capital of the Russian Empire was actually St. Petersburg, not Moscow. [UWSL]Maybe it's just me but whenever one offers a purely historical argument to suggest that a war is more legitimate than another, it ends up being extraordinarily flimsy and their logic applied extremely selectively. [/UWSL]

Seems interesting that some people will very readily condemn the United States' invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 but not the Soviet invasion in 1979, which set the stage for the Taliban's rise in the 1990s. When the Russians intervened in Syria in 2015, sent Wagner fucksticks to the Central African Republic, were they also securing territory held by Moscow for most of its history? [UWSL]I also wonder whether you would be alright if the Germans retook Königsberg, the Japanese the Kuril Islands, or if you'd denounce it as "U.S.-backed aggression". [/UWSL]

[UWSL]The major difference between the United States' interventions over the last three decades and Russia's actions in Ukraine is that territorial conquest was not part of the United States' ambitions, even if some of those interventions may have been strategic errors. And countries have largely sworn off territorial conquest in the post-war world, which makes Russia's actions particularly brazen. [/UWSL]

Yeah, I did a stint as a Teacher's Assistant lecturing about Ukrainian History. (I wasn't always a Chemical Engineer). Low IQcels still see this as "le based Puterino vs. Globohomo." There's really no convincing them otherwise. It's exhausting, though
Ukraine is the mother of Russia, from the times of Kyivan Rus.

 

[unsettling]

damn you people really care about ukraine

 

[PPEcel]

I don't know how's that news to you. Maybe the idea that Soviet invasion was unjust is so ubiquitous that it never crossed your mind to give it due consideration.

Lol. Since 1945 they are. When was the last time either of them enforced an economic or military policy that could benefit them but truly threaten American hegemony. They barely have a military to begin with.

Who says its a conquest? Its a "military operation". Russia is not after ukranian lands, they want to keep NATO missiles off those lands instead.

Is it ubiquitous? Lots of tankies don't seem to think it was unjustified.

Why would either Germany or Japan want to threaten "American hegemony"? Engagement with Washington clearly benefits them, seeing as they're the 3rd and 4th largest economies by nominal GDP. If they have strong ties with the United States; it's because they're ideologically and economically aligned, not because of coercion. And they[UWSL] "barely have a military"? Y[/UWSL][UWSL]ou're telling me that the Japanese don't have a sizeable blue-water navy in their own right and that they don't have the 5th most powerful military globally? What planet are you living in? You'd be right about the sorry state of the German military, but that's not because the U.S. wants to keep Europe down; it's because the Germans are peaceniks (that's changing because of Russia). [/UWSL]

Russia's obviously after Ukrainian land; that's what their annexation of Crimea was about. The pan-Slavic rhetoric that Russian propagandists adopt makes it clear that they don't think Ukrainians don't have the right to statehood. You'd have to be downright delusional to think that this had anything to do with Russia's security interests, or to think that it would justify Russia's blatantly unjust invasion of Ukraine.

There is some debate about the number of dead. The Russians are claiming all 510 crew were rescued except possibly the captain. The Ukrainians are claiming all 510 crew died.

I am leaning towards that all 510 crew died. I think when a missile hits a ship that is loaded with all sort of missiles and ammunition and fuel that it will cause a chain explosion of all the fuel and explosives. Nobody is likely to survive that blast.

It's unlikely that no one died. If there's a big enough fire or blast to sink a 12,000-ton cruiser it's not plausible that there isn't a single fatality. Warships are tightly packed spaces.

 

[WizardofSoda]

It looks like a long war to come now. The Russians are building up and doing pretty well in the 4 southeastern provinces along the Black Sea. the Russians and the separatists are fighting to get full control of the 2 separatist provinces. And Russia seems to have a lot of support among the people in these 4 southeastern provinces.

Zelensky is under orders it appears to fight it out all the way, even for Crimea.

When the Russians can dig into positions, and hold cities to defend, and establish a big perimeter, say at provincial border, then they are in a lot better position. The Ukrainians then would be the attackers. The Russian air defenses also seem better in the SE.

Right now Ukraine is taking heavy air bombardment across many cities. So the Ukrainians are waiting on more and bigger NATO air defenses if NATO will send them. And the Ukrainians will have to be waiting for more types of NATO weapon systems so they can hit positions the Russians are digging into in the SE.


An interesting aspect is if Ukraine does in time get a NATO air defense grid put in, then life will return to somewhat normal across much of Ukraine. The flow of refugees is now moving the other way, with at the peak it sounded like 4.5 million Ukrainians had fled the country, but now they said 870,000 have returned. Since most fled to right across the border in Poland, Hungary, Romania its not a long trip, at least for those who live in Western Ukraine.

 

[WizardofSoda]

It's unlikely that no one died. If there's a big enough fire or blast to sink a 12,000-ton cruiser it's not plausible that there isn't a single fatality. Warships are tightly packed spaces.

Ya I think the shock wave blast if tons of stuff blew up in the explosion would kill basically everybody.