Story Real Gender Studies 202 - Antarctica Chapter 2

[K9Otaku]

This is the second chapter of the book "Antarctica" and the fifth in the series. See below for a list of threads in the series.

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Chapter 2 (part 1) – Socrates

The following morning, I went to the mess-hall, fixed myself some breakfast and headed to the office. It was empty. Finn was nowhere to be found, probably sleeping. I sat at one of the desks and pulled a few binders from the filing cabinets. Finn had explained the filing system to me the previous day. Those binders whose label started with an X contained the experiment reports, those with an L, the personal logbooks, those with a C the general correspondence. I pulled binder X-47/01 which contained the documentation of the first experiment undertaken by the Boffins after the settlement of early 1947. While I was reading it, I also consulted binders L-47/01 to L-47/05 to get a sense of the context. All personnel at station Philadelphia were supposed to fill-in a personal logbook on a daily basis. It was understood that these documents were to remain sealed until their authors died or gave explicit permission to make them available. They were meant for posterity and team members were encouraged to use them to record their innermost feelings and thoughts.

The core of the Boffin team was composed of the following members:

- Alan Turing, mathematician (Bletchley Park/Cambridge)

- Ludwig Wittgenstein, philosopher (Cambridge)

- Joseph Brady, psychologist (Walter Reed Army Institute of Research)

- Wolfram von Soden, assyriologist (Friedrich Wilhelm University, Berlin)

- Willard Van Orman Quine, philosopher (Harvard)

- Thomas Kuhn, philosopher (Harvard)

- Adam Ulam, historian (Harvard)

- Arthur M. Schlesinger Sr., historian (Harvard)

- Julius R. Oppenheimer, physicist (Harvard/Cambridge/Manhattan Project)

- Satyendra Nath Bose, physicist (University of Calcutta)

There was no logic in the composition of this group other than personal acquaintance. Given the secrecy of the project, James Conant and John Cockroft had simply selected the people they knew best, and trusted most, in their respective countries. A few men had also been recommended by other members of the team like Wittgenstein (recommended by Turing) and Bose (by Oppenheimer). Von Soden was part of the team because he belonged to the captured crew of U-843 and had established a rapport with Turing and Wittgenstein while in captivity at Bletchley Park. A number of remarks, scattered among various logbooks, made it clear that most members in the team were convinced that Turing had hired Wittgenstein because he was in love with him. Kuhn, for his part, was a personal protégé of Conant.

Experiment No. 1 was an exploration of Classical Greece, with a special focus on Athens at the time of Socrates and Plato. As indicated in the X-47/01 binder, the rationale behind this choice was this: because Marxism was, from its origin, rooted in the Western philosophical tradition, it made sense to go back to the foundational events of this tradition, in ancient Greece. In order to understand and translate the ancient Greek Language which was picked up by the device, a team of several 30-something classics scholars from Cambridge and University College London had been assembled by John Cockroft on the advice of Sir Edward Howard Marsh, a close friend of Winston Churchill.

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Other thread in the series (in reverse chronological order):

Real Gender Studies 201 - Antarctica Chapter 1

I had already talked about this book in a previous thread. Now I am going to post it here chapter by chapter, with a commentary. Chapter 1 (part 1) – Discovery On July 17th 2022, I was on night shift duty at the Amundsen-Scott South Pole station ARA monitoring room. ARA stands for “Askaryan...

incels.is

Real Gender Studies 103 - Before the cities

In the middle of the fifth millennium BC, the Middle East had become entirely dotted with farming villages and agriculture had started to spread to Europe, North Africa and the Iranian Plateau. The spread of farming was the first human large scale technological revolution. It had resulted in an...

incels.is

Real Gender Studies 102 - the Neolithic

This is the second installment in the "real gender studies" series. It follows the one below: https://incels.is/threads/real-gender-studies-101-the-paleolithic.316731/#post-7198873 At the start of the Neolithic (around 10 000 years BC), mankind shifted from the hunter-gatherer lifestyle to...

incels.is

Real Gender Studies 101 - The Paleolithic

From around 2 millions years ago to 10 000 years ago, humans have led roughly the same lifestyle: hunting and gathering. Given the length of time we have lived that way, it is quite clear that it is that lifestyle that determined how we evolved. All of our instincts were shaped by this period...

incels.is

 

[BoramHyunKi]

Impressive character roster

 

[K9Otaku]

Chapter 2 (part 2)

The reading of the personal logbooks revealed that, as the experiment progressed, most of the team members became increasingly distraught by what they were uncovering. All of them, including the scientists, had a strong foundation in the classics, as was the rule for every University-educated person at the time. This classical education naturally led them to assume that Athens, and especially the entourage of Plato and Socrates, was the pinnacle of virtue, wisdom and intellectual acumen. But this is not at all how things looked as direct observations of the past started pouring in. The picture that emerged was one of a hotbed of jealousy, envy, pettiness and resentment.

The social milieu in which Socrates and Plato interacted was mostly composed of wealthy upper-class Athenians. Within that milieu, many individuals were known by name to the Boffin team members because they were mentioned in the Platonic dialogues and other historical sources. Naturally, these individuals were observed in great detail during the course of the experiment. Almost all of them turned out to be motivated by the most obsessive form of social conceit. According to their worldview, mankind was divided into two categories, the men of no account (the kakoi in Greek) and the superior people (the agathoi). Most of the population of Athens, and indeed of all Greece, were kakoi, according to them, and, as such, worthy of nothing but scorn and condescension. Then there were the agathoi, the happy few. However, the criteria determining who was part of this select group were quite elusive. At the time of Socrates and Plato, the political constitution of Athens was democratic. All institutional differences between aristocrats and commoners had been abolished. Naturally, some families retained an aura of nobility but this aura was no longer anchored in any kind of legal definition. Hence many were the members of the aristocratic milieu who longed after a definition of social superiority that would not longer be dependent on the vagaries of political life. But what was it going to be ? Manners ? "Virtues" (whatever that meant) ? There was no general agreement. As a result, all the members of Socrates’ and Plato’s circle lived in perpetual terror of not being superior enough to be counted among the agathoi. What if someone suddenly exposed whatever secret flaws they might have and caused them to be called kakoi ?

Driven by this well concealed but perennial anxiety, well-to-do Athenians were constantly engaged in the most vicious forms of gossip targeted at each other. As the proverb says: the best form of defense is the offense. However, they were also simultaneously, and secretly, worshiping the very people they were bad-mouthing. All of them were possessed of a burning desire to be invited to the parties (symposia, i.e. drinking feasts) thrown by the most fashionable people of the day while secretly plotting to topple them from their elevated position. In many ways, upper-class Athens in the late Vth century looked like a giant High School, with its cliques, its heavy-drinking parties, its excomunications and its betrayals

Athens political life was constantly marred by bizarre plots and egregious accusations against successful generals or administrators. What the Boffin team’s observations was revealing day after day was that the motivation for these flare-ups was generally nothing more than the resentment of people who had not been invited to a party they craved to attend, or other perceived slights of the same nature. At times, like during the so-called “30 tyrants” episode of 404-403 BC, the universal feelings of resentment reached such an intensity that they exploded into an orgy of political murders, expropriations and general lawlessness. All the 30 tyrants were members of the upper class and most of their victims were too. Most of the 30 were part of Socrates and Plato’s circle or knew people who were.

As a general rule, the role of Socrates within Athenian elite circles was that of a kind of court jester whose main task was to dampen the anxiety of his fashionable hosts by giving them reasons to believe that they were indeed genuine agathoi. Socrates was not of noble birth. As the son of a stonemason, he would not normally have been invited to the social gatherings of the elite. But his silver tongue had earned him a following among certain members of the upper class. He was not a “teacher” in the traditional sense, but rather a hanger on, a flatterer.

One day, in June 1947, Turing and Oppenheimer were observing Socrates in an animated discussion with Agathon, the main character of one of Plato’s dialogues. The object of the discussion was a feast that was to take place at Agathon's house the next day and at which Socrates was to be present. As they were reading the typed translation of the exchange, Oppenheimer and Turing were horrified to discover that Socrates charged a fee for his services and that he and the party's host were haggling over the price. Socrates was a paid entertainer; a sort of late-night talk-show host for the upper crust.

From this point onward, the experiment focused almost exclusively on what Socrates was actually saying, and on Plato’s understanding of it. One day, in August 1947, the following exchange was recorded:

- SOCRATES: Truth is the mark of the agathoi. While the kakoi stumble in obscurity, relying as they do on the deceitful senses, the agathoi are guided by the unchanging purity of the heavenly forms. The only genuine gnosis (knowledge) lies in the grasping of these pure forms and only this gnosis makes one worthy to be counted among the agathoi.

- PLATO: The forms you speak of, Socrates, are those that are made manifest by the tale you told us the other day about people being chained inside a cave. Is it not ?

- SOCRATES: Indeed, this is what they are, my young friend.

- PLATO: And the Truth is only to be found in these forms. Am I correct ?

- SOCRATES: That is so. Gnosis (knowledge) of the Truth lies in the perfectly exact apprehension of these forms within one’s soul. This is what sets apart the souls of the agathoi from those of the kakoi.

This exchange was crucial because it never appeared in any of the known Platonic dialogues. It revealed that Socrates had fashioned a theory of Truth which turned it into a form of luxury good for elite consumption. Naturally, Plato’s and Socrates’ social circle embraced this theory with an immense sense of relief. At last there was a way to be reassured that one was indeed part of the agathoi. Since the pure forms were eternal, just like the soul, One’s membership in this most exclusive of clubs was guaranteed for ever ! What a genius idea. Bravo Socrates ! Bravo ! Of course, this did not solve anything, really. As soon as Socrates views on truth and knowledge started to spread, people began to bicker about what exactly these pure forms might be and how one could have access to them. The bitterness and the vitriolic gossip were back with a vengeance. Yet, Socrates’ theory did not lose its appeal. It was simply too good, too tempting, to be given up.

 

[JayGoptri]

Reading through some of it now !

Impressive character roster

Certainly is.

 

[K9Otaku]

Chapter 2 (Part 3)

From September 1947 onward, the Socrates experiment had winded down. Over the next few months, a detailed report was written. Most of it was signed collectively by the team but it also included some annexes penned by individual members. Here are excerpts from two of these:

Everyone knows that there is no such thing as Truth or Knowledge. At least since Kant has this been evident. Only charlatans like Hegel and his merry little band of followers have been shameless enough to continue pretending otherwise. Who on Earth could still be fooled by such baloney ? Well, to be honest, I was. The very word “truth” is so tantalizing ! I can still feel it pull at my brain like a giant magnet. I was a deceitful priest of the Truth too, in my time. Now, with what we have seen, will we be cured ?​

Ludwig Wittgenstein, 9 October 1947​

It has been noticed already by a number of commentators that Plato’s political thought has uncomfortable similarities with totalitarianism. In the dialog titled “the Republic”, Plato presents what he considers to be the ideal system of government: a small group of unelected but “enlightened” philosophers enjoying absolute power and ruling selflessly for the benefit of the community. It is hard to miss the parallel with the idea that the Communist Party must be the “vanguard of the Proletariat”. Did Marxism consciously emulate Plato ? Not explicitly, and probably not consciously. But the similarities just noted can hardly be a coincidence, given the quasi-religious devotion to “Philosophy” which permeates most forms of left-wing thinking.​

Communists have always fancied themselves as thinkers; practical philosophers armed with the infallible intellectual tools of Marx’s scientific materialism. Of course, they loudly dismiss Platonic forms as the worst kind of childishly idealistic thinking (in their mouths, and under their pen, this term is the worst possible insult). However, by endorsing Hegel’s vision of Science approaching absolute truth ever more closely as “progress” marches on, they subscribe to a doctrine which possesses exactly the same psychological implications as the old Platonic system: the potential to create an elite of the Spirit.​

While Socrates appears to have worked exclusively for the benefit of Athens’ elite, Marxism targets the alienated European educated lower-middle class. Being a member of this stratum in contemporary society implies the humble acceptance of one’s own existence as a minute cog in one or the other of the modern titanic bureaucratic machines (financial institutions, large corporations, government, etc.) While those with strong spiritual roots may be content with such a destiny, rebellion is the lot of the countless educated young men of middling social standing who are now adrift in a world increasingly vacated by the dogma of Christianity (and Judaism).​

Some have already pointed out that Communism may be a form of snobbery; a way for the educated young men just mentioned, to take revenge on those they envy. Karl Marx, the Prometheus/Socrates of our time, offers them the opportunity to become members of a new elite club destined (supposedly) to take the lead in the new social order. Marx, like Socrates, offers knowledge as the means to join the elect. The certainties of dialectic materialism, like the Platonic forms, are reckoned to give access to the absolute truth. And what is “absolute truth” (in the guise of Hegelian "absolute knowing") if not the most potent source of psychological self-righteous legitimation ?​

Outwardly reviling what one in fact adores is a common trait of all types of snobbery. Like the upper-class Athenians we have seen pouring vitriol on prominent members of their own milieu only to run to their feasts, if invited, Communists loudly disparage the “Bourgeois” ruling class of the Western World only to imitate it as soon as they get the chance. Many have noted the Bourgeois turn of the Soviet regime from the 1930s onward. Neoclassical skyscrapers, comfortable “apparatchik” apartment blocks and the most unimaginative kind of academic painting style (under the name of “Socialist Realism”) have replaced the modernist aesthetic of the early years after the revolution. The successful Communist Party of Russia has given birth to a new bourgeois class, with the same tastes as the old one, while simultaneously maintaining its anti-bourgeois rhetoric.​

Two contexts where snobbery is the driving factor; two cases where the promise of absolute truth is made out to be the ticket to an exclusive elite club. Is this the last word on what makes Communism appealing to the modern man ? Certainly not. But it probably indicates a fruitful direction for future research.​

Adam Ulam, 17 October 1947​

Ulam was a young PhD graduate in History from Harvard. As a Polish Jew, he had had direct experience of the two main forms of XXth century totalitarianism and was already considered, in the late 40s, as one of the foremost authorities on the history of the Socialist movement and of the Soviet Union. During his time at Station Philadelphia, he had struck up an unlikely friendship with a 40 year old OSS/CIA operative from Wisconsin, Lamar Gunderson, who had been a G-man before he enlisted and joined the "Company" during the War. Gunderson had told Ulam that he had conducted surveillance of Communist sympathizers during his time in the FBI. Upon learning this, Ulam showed him some of the Socrates experiment material, as well as his own conclusions regarding a possible parallel with Communism. Having read this material, Gunderson submitted a short piece of his own, which was added to the final report:

During my time in the FBI, conducting surveillance on Communist sympathizer organizations, I was always struck by the resemblance between these tiny Marxist outfits and ladies clubs. Ladies are always gossiping about other ladies in their town. Yet, when one of these very ladies throws some party, others run to it, if they are invited. But if they are not, they are so mortally wounded in their pride that they are ready to launch themselves into the most devious plots one can imagine to exact their revenge. Most of the material we were collecting on these Communist front organizations, through eavesdropping or mail interception, was of a similar nature. Their members spent nearly all their time denouncing each other in the most vicious terms yet they never failed to attend each other’s pompously named “conferences”, “workshops” or “sessions”. Did anything concrete ever came of all this ? Generally, no ! But this did not seem to bother them. Despite their constant calls to “action”, it was obvious that their internal bickering was the real point of their existence.​

Lamar Gunderson, 12 November 1947​

 

[BoramHyunKi]

This is really interesting. A welcome change from the usual low IQ drivel on this forum

 

[JayGoptri]

This is really interesting. A welcome change from the usual low IQ drivel on this forum

I'm trying to absord all of it but it's a bit beyond me so you gotta help me out HyunKi. Will let you know if and when I have questions.. Been on Wikipedia lookin up loads a stuff too.

Chapter 2 (Part 3)

From September 1947 onward, the Socrates experiment had winded down. Over the next few months, a detailed report was written. Most of it was signed collectively by the team but it also included some annexes penned by individual members. Here are excerpts from two of these:

​

So basically it's showing us that Greek philosophy was actually some weak ass junk[UWSL] ? And not like most people would think [/UWSL][UWSL]like it's the height of western intellectual stuffs or something ? [/UWSL]

 

[K9Otaku]

Chapter 2 (Part 4)

As I was finishing the report on the Socrates experiment, Finn showed up.

— ME: Hey ! How are you ? Were you sleeping ?

— FINN: Yes, for a while, Finn replied, then I spent a few days at Troll.

— ME: A few days ?! ...

— FINN: I told you that time stops when we leave this place, remember ? From your perspective, my trip to Troll lasted less than half an hour, the time it takes to reach the edge of Station Philadelphia on foot and to come back. From my perspective, it lasted 3 days. I brought some fresh clothes and a few items I thought might come in handy, like my laptop.

— ME: Oh, OK, yeah, it makes sense. I have been reading the Socrates experiment material that you showed me yesterday, but there are things that I don’t get.

— FINN: Like what ?

— ME: Well, first of all, where is their so-called "device" now ? Is it here somewhere ?

— FINN: No, I don't think so. During my second stay here I explored all the buildings of Station Philadeliphia. I found all sorts of things; science labs, workshops, dormitories, more offices with filing cabinets full of binders plus all the infrastructure needed to make the base habitable, like electricity, heating and so on. But I did not see anything that could possibly be "the device". One of the buildings has a large central space, two stories in height, where it might have been housed, but the place is empty.

— ME: Bummer ...

— FINN: Actually, reading the contents of the binders is probably more interesting than using the device ourselves. Neither of us speaks ancient Greek or any other ancient language and we are not professional historians or philosophers. At Station Philadelphia in the 40s they had gathered all the talents and the skills needed to make the best use of the device.

— ME: I guess ... Yet, it would have been fun to see the face of Socrates and catch him picking his nose or something like that.

— FINN: Sure, but we would have grown tired of doing that sort of thing pretty quickly, don't you think ? By reading the binders we have direct access to material that was never published or known to anyone but the protagonists themselves, like this dialogue between Socrates and a young Plato where they discuss how gnosis separates the agathoi from the rest. The comments by Wittgenstein, Ulam, etc. are also original material that you can't find anywhere else. Being able to read all this is pretty amazing.

— ME: Sure. Yet some of the comments are quite weird. This Gunderson guy, for example, I don’t see what his sexist remarks about ladies clubs have to do with Socrates, or Truth and the rest. What is his point ?

— FINN: Well, regarding the sexist remarks, you have to take into account the atmosphere of the era. The kind of things Gunderson says were absolutely standard fare at the time. His piece serves to highlight that the ideas of truth and knowledge may be motivated by a form of snobbery.

— ME: But what does it have to do with women ?

— FINN: The desire to belong to an exclusive social scene has always been more in evidence among women than men, especially in a country like the US where egalitarianism is supposed to be the norm. In pre-War America, no form of outward snobbery was considered acceptable among men. However, it was more or less tolerated among women, provided it was not completely for real, hence Gunderson’s allusion to Women’s clubs. In European countries, the kind of behavior Gunderson describes was much more overt and was not at all limited to women, although it often tended to revolve around them because of their role in running a salon or throwing parties. Have you read anything by Marcel Proust ?

— ME: No. But all this makes me think about High School, with the cliques, the Jocks, the Cheerleaders and all the rest. Is this what it is ?

— FINN: Yes, it is indeed comparable.

— ME: OK, but I still do not see what all this has to to with truth and knowledge. The social milieu of Socrates and Plato might have been full of the worst kind of snobs, but why would that imply that their ideas about truth and knowledge should be false ?

— FINN: Because Socrates audience and his theory are not two independent phenomena. What the Socrates experiment revealed is that the account of truth and knowledge transmitted to us by Plato was not the result of some disinterested quest for wisdom, as we usually tend to think, but was in fact tailor-made to please the audience of someone who turned out to be more of a talk-show host than a philosopher.

— ME: Say again.

— FINN: The members of the Athenian upper class wanted to think of themselves as a cut above the rest. But they were being assailed by doubt because, in a democratic society like Athens, there were no universally recognized cultural norms which could be used to justify elitist pretensions (there was no "nobility" per se). Then Socrates comes along and delivers to them exactly what they crave: a theory of knowledge rooted in an account of truth understood as an absolute and therefore independent of culture and human opinion. Since, in antiquity, only members of upper class had access to higher education in the form of private tutoring by philosophers, the goal is achieved. Since they are the only ones who have access to the kind of Truth with a big “T” that Socrates is talking about, well-to-do Athenians now had a way to justify their own feelings of superiority, at least in their own eyes.

— ME: But why would non-elite Athenians accept this claim ?

— FINN: That is not the point. We are not talking about a political or even a social strategy here. What Socrates is delivering to the Athenian upper class is nothing but a psychological remedy, a way to assuage its anxiety about itself.

— ME: But why would that make the theory incorrect ?

— FINN: Well, do you think that a theory solely designed to be a kind of Valium against upper class social angst has much chance to give an accurate picture of what we want to say when we use the words “truth” or “knowledge” in situations which matter, like science or engineering ?

— ME: I suppose not. But then what are knowledge and truth if they are not what Plato says ? Does all this mean that there is no such thing as objective truth ?

— FINN: This is exactly what the Philadelphia station Boffins were asking themselves when they had finished with the Socrates experiment. The idea of objective truth was a hot topic at the time. Almost no one, except a few people like Wittgenstein or Kuhn, was ready to let go of it completely. As a result, you will see that the whole team was frantically trying to get a grip on this question as they were considering what the next steps after the Socrates experiment should be. Most of the relevant material is in binder X-47/02 and X-47/03. There are also interesting things in the correspondence binders.

— ME: OK, I will read them, I said, yawning and stretching my arms and legs. But not now. I feel filthy. I have not showered nor changed clothes since I arrived here. I think I will go back to Amundsen-Scott and return here with what I need for a longer stay.

— FINN: Very well, see you in ½ an hour.

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This is the end of Chapter 2. Chapter 3 will be published in thread "Real Gender Studies 203"

 

[BoramHyunKi]

I'm trying to absord all of it but it's a bit beyond me so you gotta help me out HyunKi. Will let you know if and when I have questions.. Been on Wikipedia lookin up loads a stuff too.

So basically it's showing us that Greek philosophy was actually some weak ass junk[UWSL] ? And not like most people would think [/UWSL][UWSL]like it's the height of western intellectual stuffs or something ? [/UWSL]

Yes, basically, he is saying that Greek Philosophy was just entertainment for the rich, to make them feel superior.

Tbh, it is not really a surprise. If you read about the background of Plato, it is quite apparent from the sources we have

 

[K9Otaku]

Tbh, it is not really a surprise. If you read about the background of Plato, it is quite apparent from the sources we have

Indeed

 

[BoramHyunKi]

I wonder what place/era they are going to investigate next

 

[JayGoptri]

Yes, basically, he is saying that Greek Philosophy was just entertainment for the rich, to make them feel superior.

Tbh, it is not really a surprise. If you read about the background of Plato, it is quite apparent from the sources we have

Sorta like a theater orgie or something

I wonder what place/era they are going to investigate next

Curious to see also what direction this dude writing takes it in. Maybe they go and see Paul & Jesus' discipels n what not. Or.. what really happened in Egypt with Moses or in India with the epic wars...etc etc