Discussion Primitive monogamy

[Lame Dude]

Some people here think monogamy comes from religion and was enforced by men. I dont think that is true.

Lets imagine a hunter gatherer tribe of 10 men and 10 women, of evenly distrubuted attractiveness.
Even if the 1 chad has superhuman genetics, he cant hunt for and feed, multiple women and children. Best way to feed and maintain a tribe like that would be looksmatch monogamy. It is in women's best interest not to share mates.
It only becomes possible if other men work for him. And that requires farming / feudalism.

Even if a tribe went the way of polygamy like some weird books suggest, men dont want to raise other men's offspring, and children become the tragedy of the commons. A tribe like that cannot compete with a monogamous tribe at war. Safe to say they died off, unless they lived on an island or something.
Also, marriage and monogamy protects the woman for life, even after losing fertility.

 

[frustratedhapa]

Cope. You're wrong. If that were true then monogamy would've existed before religion. It didn't. Throughout history most men have NOT procreated. Monogamy is a social construct. In nature only the alpha males get females. Humans are not much different than other species of animals when it comes to our reproductive strategies.

 

[Lame Dude]

Cope. You're wrong. If that were true then monogamy would've existed before religion. It didn't.

How do we know this? Written text wasnt around.

I did not say chad didnt cuck other males, I said chad cant feed multiple women and children.
If you include a lot of men dying to protect the tribe as well, I think it still holds up.

 

[frustratedhapa]

How do we know this? Written text wasnt around.

I did not say chad didnt cuck other males, I said chad cant feed multiple women and children.

Who said anything about Chad feeding multiple women and children? He didn't. All the men hunted together. But just because all the men hunted, doesn't mean that all the men got access to women. Check out any other animal species out there. Take wolves, for example. All the males in the wolf pack hunt and "contribute" to the pack, but very few of them are allowed access to females. Very few of them are able to pass on their genes.

You don't need to imagine some fictional tribe back in the day. Watch any documentary out there about existing hunter gatherer tribes. There are several of them on youtube. Most hunter gatherer tribes are polygynous.

 

[Lame Dude]

All the men hunted together. But just because all the men hunted, doesn't mean that all the men got access to women. Check out any other animal species out there. Take wolves, for example. All the males in the wolf pack hunt and "contribute" to the pack, but very few of them are allowed access to females. Very few of them are able to pass on their genes.
You don't need to imagine some fictional tribe back in the day. Watch any documentary out there about existing hunter gatherer tribes. There are several of them on youtube. Most hunter gatherer tribes are polygynous.

Yet paternal investment needed to raise an offspring wolf vs a human is incomparable. When the required investment gets too much for a single parent, other mammal species prefer monogamy as well. Did they find god?

A primitive tribe which exists today, supports my point, they failed to compete.

 

[BITG]

Who said anything about Chad feeding multiple women and children? He didn't. All the men hunted together. But just because all the men hunted, doesn't mean that all the men got access to women. Check out any other animal species out there. Take wolves, for example. All the males in the wolf pack hunt and "contribute" to the pack, but very few of them are allowed access to females. Very few of them are able to pass on their genes.

You don't need to imagine some fictional tribe back in the day. Watch any documentary out there about existing hunter gatherer tribes. There are several of them on youtube. Most hunter gatherer tribes are polygynous.

High IQ. Based.

 

[LOLI BREEDING]

Cope. You're wrong. If that were true then monogamy would've existed before religion. It didn't. Throughout history most men have NOT procreated. Monogamy is a social construct. In nature only the alpha males get females. Humans are not much different than other species of animals when it comes to our reproductive strategies.

there are many strictly monogamous animals

 

[frustratedhapa]

Yet paternal investment needed to raise an offspring wolf vs a human is incomparable. When the required investment gets too much for a single parent, other mammal species prefer monogamy as well. Did they find god?

A primitive tribe which exists today, supports my point, they failed to compete.

Uhh I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Monogamy is not natural for human beings. It is a social construct. So you're agreeing that it's not natural but you don't agree that it comes from religion?

there are many strictly monogamous animals

That's true, but they're rare. Monogamous animals make up like 3% of all species. Humans and other great apes are not included in that 3%.

 

[Lame Dude]

Monogamy is not natural for human beings. It is a social construct.

I am saying we are not wired for anything, we adapt. And I doubt that it was men who came up with it to "oppress" the other sex. By offering lifetime protection and child rearing.

Also, other animals might be the same way, but ultimately, humans are the only animals who shape their environments, so its impossible to draw accurate comparisons.

 

[frustratedhapa]

I am saying we are not wired for anything, we adapt. And I doubt that it was men who came up with it to "oppress" the other sex. By offering lifetime protection and child rearing.

Also, other animals might be the same way, but ultimately, humans are the only animals who shape their environments, so its impossible to draw accurate comparisons.

We do adapt but we haven't yet adapted to monogamy. Women are clearly not wired for it. They all want Chad. They'd rather be in Chad's harem than have an incel male all to themselves. I remember seeing an article a few months ago about feminist women in Tunisia and Egypt that are fighting to bring back polygamy. The article said there are many spinsters in North Africa and these pro-polygamy activists think that polygamy would bring down the number of unmarried women. jfl

 

[Personalityinkwell]

Monogamy is a cultural tool that's being dismantled by the jews so they can take over the world

 

[ThisLifeKillsMe]

Women fucked chad when they were ovulating and thus got pregnant. When they were not fertile they fucked beta

 

[Lame Dude]

We do adapt but we haven't yet adapted to monogamy. Women are clearly not wired for it. They all want Chad. They'd rather be in Chad's harem than have an incel male all to themselves.

True. Similarly, every male wants to lay with as many foids as possible. Yet when its not an option, everybody goes for the next best thing.
When being an instagram thot pays for your lifestyle, of course you wont care about your looksmatch.
Voting rights to force men to give you benefits via the government is just the cherry on top.

 

[frustratedhapa]

True. Similarly, every male wants to lay with as many foids as possible. Yet when its not an option, everybody goes for the next best thing.
When being an instagram thot pays for your lifestyle, of course you wont care about your looksmatch.
Voting rights to force men to give you benefits via the government is just the cherry on top.

That's true but I think you're coping a bit thinking that if women weren't instagram thots or getting welfare that they'd somehow be attracted to incel males. They wouldn't. Women never adapted to monogamy. They still have the same primal instincts as their cavewoman ancestors. Men haven't adapted either, like you mentioned. This is why Chads aren't eager to settle down. They'll just pump and dump and mayyyybbeee settle down once they reach middle age and realize they aren't immortal and want to leave behind a genetic legacy. This is why Leonardo DiCaprio is in his 40's and still banging young hot models. It'll probably take until his 50's like it did for George Clooney to get the desire to settle down and start a family.

The only reason average men are so eager to settle down is because they know they don't have the option to have casual sex. They'll cling on for dear life to any woman who gives them the time of day. If average males had the ability to sleep around, you better believe that they'd be pumping and dumping women just like Chad. Settling down for average men isn't that bad since men are attracted to the vast majority of fertile women. So I guess you could say that average men are somewhat adapted since they can be happy in a monogamous relationship.

Women, however, are only attracted to a very small percentage of men by nature. So a woman can never be truly happy or sexually satisfied with an average or below average male. Even back in the day when women could not go to school or work so they had to get married to unattractive men to survive, they weren't actually attracted to those males. Where do you think the stereotype of the nagging wife comes from? Where do you think the stereotype of a woman not wanting to have sex with her husband comes from? Those stereotypes have existed for a long, long time. Women only nag at ugly men that they have no respect for.Women only refuse sex if they are not sexually attracted to their partners. Most of us here on this forum would be married if we were in the 1950's, but we would only get starfish sex in the dark once a month.

Monogamy really was invented by men to control womens hypergamy.

 

[Lame Dude]

Women never adapted to monogamy. They still have the same primal instincts as their cavewoman ancestors. Men haven't adapted either, like you mentioned.

The only reason average men are so eager to settle down is because they know they don't have the option to have casual sex.

Women, however, are only attracted to a very small percentage of men by nature. So a woman can never be truly happy or sexually satisfied with an average or below average male.

Monogamy really was invented by men to control womens hypergamy.

If I understood correctly; "It is not their nature, therefore men invented it and forced women into it."
I dont follow that logic.
In the end I think it was a convenient solution for everyone. Doesnt guarantee happiness, thats for sure. But to think that men forced women into it, is like saying "Men invented trading and forced women to trade."

Edit: Just to be clear, I am not saying that they would be attracted to incels if they could not get chad.

 

[frustratedhapa]

Men really did invent it though. Monogamy was not a widespread thing before the Abrahamic religions. The Abrahamic religions were invented by men. Why do you think the creators of those religions wanted everyone to believe that God wants them to be monogamous? It was obviously a way for men to restrict womens' hypergamy and to restrict Chad's polygyny. How else could they justify stealing women from Chad's harem?? They had to brainwash everyone into believing that that's what God wants and that they'll go to hell if they don't listen.

There's a reason why women were not allowed to go to school and work for most of history. Men of the time knew that if women could educate themselves and get jobs, they would no longer need them.

Monogamy was never a convenient solution for everyone. It was only convenient for average and below average males.

 

[Lame Dude]

Men really did invent it though. Monogamy was not a widespread thing before the Abrahamic religions.

How do we know this? Written text wasnt around.

There's a reason why women were not allowed to go to school and work for most of history. Men of the time knew that if women could educate themselves and get jobs, they would no longer need them.

I will give you another and much better explanation; If there is a shortage of resources, you have to invest in a person who is likely to pay it back and more. Men work longer work days, take less sick leave, dont get pregnant, benefit from social security less, retire later, and die earlier. If you could train only 1 doctor, which sex would you pick?

Monogamy was never a convenient solution for everyone. It was only convenient for average and below average males.

Even if the 1 chad has superhuman genetics, he cant hunt for and feed, multiple women and children. Best way to feed and maintain a tribe like that would be looksmatch monogamy. It is in women's best interest not to share mates.

When the required investment gets too much for a single parent, other mammal species prefer monogamy as well.

You are stating baseless claims while being so sure of yourself. I could just as easily say monogamy was widespread already, thats why it was accepted so quickly. If we are going to pull statements out of our asses.
Whats more, you are ignoring what I said previously, and repeating yourself.

 

[frustratedhapa]

I will give you another and much better explanation; If there is a shortage of resources, you have to invest in a person who is likely to pay it back and more. Men work longer work days, take less sick leave, dont get pregnant, benefit from social security less, retire later, and die earlier. If you could train only 1 doctor, which sex would you pick?
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You are stating baseless claims while being so sure of yourself. I could just as easily say monogamy was widespread already, thats why it was accepted so quickly. If we are going to pull statements out of our asses.
Whats more, you are ignoring what I said previously, and repeating yourself.

I'm not pulling statements out of my ass. Most blackpilled individuals agree with what I'm saying. What kind of evidence do you need to see? Do you really think any social scientists out there are going to waste time trying to prove the blackpill? Scientists do everything in their power to hide the fact that women are only attracted to about 5% of men. Society constantly lies to us and gaslights us. There's no way this knowledge will ever become mainstream and accepted.

You are bluepilled and coping. You want to believe that women would willingly be in a monogamous relationship with you if only we didn't live in such a degenerate society where instagram and welfare exist. The most you'd ever be in any era or any kind of society is a beta provider. That's all. You would never in a million years get a woman's vagina wet. You would never in a million years command a woman's respect. Even in a "trad" society where women cannot work, a woman would only be with you because she has no other options.

Anyway, you tell me that I have no evidence but where is the evidence of your claims? That chart above doesn't prove anything relevant to our discussion. Yes, men are more valuable workers than women. But that's not why men restricted women from getting educated and working throughout history. There's no evidence of that.
You said that I'm pulling statements out of my ass by saying that monogamy was not widespread. How so? It's literally a fact.

8,000 Years Ago, 17 Women Reproduced for Every One Man | Pacific Standard

^This wasn't even during hunter gatherer times. It was after the advent of agriculture.

 

[Lame Dude]

I'm not pulling statements out of my ass. Most blackpilled individuals agree with what I'm saying.

Appeal to popularity

Scientists do everything in their power to hide the fact that women are only attracted to about 5% of men.

Strawman
I never talked about attraction. You brought that up.

You are bluepilled and coping. You want to believe that women would willingly be in a monogamous relationship with you if only we didn't live in such a degenerate society where instagram and welfare exist. The most you'd ever be in any era or any kind of society is a beta provider. That's all.

Adhominem & strawman

Anyway, you tell me that I have no evidence but where is the evidence of your claims?

That is the difference, I never claimed anything, I am speculating. I realize that I dont know, and cant know, because the written language wasnt a thing.

That chart above doesn't prove anything relevant to our discussion. Yes, men are more valuable workers than women. But that's not why men restricted women from getting educated and working throughout history. There's no evidence of that.

That chart supports the sentence just above it. Irrelevant otherwise. Again "Thats why they did that." How do you know?

 

[Deleted member 24081]

Monogamy is a cultural tool that's being dismantled by the jews so they can take over the world

 

[kikecel]

Cope. You're wrong. If that were true then monogamy would've existed before religion. It didn't. Throughout history most men have NOT procreated. Monogamy is a social construct. In nature only the alpha males get females. Humans are not much different than other species of animals when it comes to our reproductive strategies.

 

[Lame Dude]

8,000 Years Ago, 17 Women Reproduced for Every One Man | Pacific Standard

I read the scientific blackpill, and that title is misleading. Directly from the incel wiki, about the same study;

• Around 8,000 years ago, women's effective population size grew substantially compared to men's, peaking around 17 times the size of men's (see Figure below).
• The peak coincides with early agricultural revolutions, hence a plausible explanation is increasingly polygynous mating practices enabled by the power concentration and wealth accumulation of farmers.

Farming, and feudalism is had a large effect as top men (who own the land and the workforce) got to breed with many. That is exactly what I said.

It only becomes possible if other men work for him. And that requires farming / feudalism.