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Theory Mimetic Desire of sexual partners is exclusive to women? 'Mate Choice Copying' has some answers

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Friedrich Nietzsche

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Firstly, Mimetic desire is the reason and the concept that people want things more if others have/desire it, e.g. Bob owns a computer and James wants one, so Ian buys one despite not being that interested in anything to do with computers. The key takeaway being that people wanting things and/or having them can make others want them even if they were not initially that bothered.

Graph of rene Girard's triangular structure of desire:


Here is a YouTube video on Mimetic Desire:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgB9p2BA4fw

The Second Concept that I want to introduce is Mate Choice Copying, which is a well known concept at least in the Incel community even if it is not called that here, what it boils down to is women finding men in relationships more attractive than men not in relationships, the reason for this is herd mentality (from what I could gather), if person A has more sexual interest from the opposite sex then there must be a reason for this, this helped women choose the best man to father her offspring. despite what most people on this forum including me might of thought it seems that men do mate choice copy, although it is definitely more pronounced in women below is a couple graphs showing it, and most academic sources portray women as the ones who do it rather than men, but we must accept reality even when it might not suit us.

here is the source that I downloaded these graphs from: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20161739/
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mainstream left wing website also writing about Mate Choice copying:
Quote from the third paragraph

"One recent study presented a photograph of a man to college women, and found that 90 percent of them were attracted to the man even after they were told that he was in a relationship. But when the women were told that he was single, only about 59 percent were interested. “The single women really, really liked the guy when he was taken,” co-author Melissa Burkley of Oklahoma State University, told the New Scientist"
If that is not the famous get her after she "settles down"/"matures" BlackPill then I don't know what is (I do it is on the next line)

title of the next paragraph: "But They Typically Grow Out of It"
They technically aren't wrong either:

As you can see Women in their prime cheat more than men, but when the big 30 hits men start to cheat more and more than their female counterparts of the same age. although both parties cheat more as they get older

Link for the above graph: https://www.mysticmag.com/psychic-reading/men-women-cheat-more-infidelity-statistics/
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Sources
listed are the sources that I read before writing this (at least the ones I remembered to write down)


Mimetic Desire: Mate Choice Copying: Study For Mate Choice Copying: Study For Mate Choice Copying: Mainstream Article About "5 Scientific Reasons Women Are Attracted to Married Men": Marriage experts on women initiating divorce: how Many Marriages End in Divorce Because of Infidelity?: Facts, stats that show that women cheat more than men: same sex gaze attraction influence on mate choice copying in humans:
 
OwlGod

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Nietzsche reincarnated
 
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F @Friedrich Nietzsche

What is your take on Girard's rejection of Nietzsche?
 
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Friedrich Nietzsche

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Didn't know he rejected Nietzsche, I would assume by 'reject' your insinuating that he did not agree with his politics/philosophy? I'll do some research into it and come back with my stance.
highinhibition said:
Instant-Pin lecture for train
Don't know what you mean

"boycott and ignore fakecels, they are your enemies, we are the minority otherwise you ll get banned"
is that referring to me? or is that a part of your profile?
K9Otaku said:
F @Friedrich Nietzsche

What is your take on Girard's rejection of Nietzsche?

well after finding the above link I am assuming you are referring to Nietzsche's stance on Christianity which directly contrasts with Rene Girard's stance on Christianity, Firstly I think Nietzsche is right in regards to Christianity being like alcohol in the sense that they are ways of not embracing suffering (reality). However I think that using Christianity to guide yourself to a better life can also be a good thing: To me both parties have something of worth to contribute, Nietzsche's acceptance of reality how it is and rejection of faith are good things in my opinion, but living a fulfilling life through hard work and the use of Christian values without belief in god are also good things, a person who uses both parties principles to live by ends up being a more rounded and more successful than the man who accepts only what one of them says as the gospel, "take what is useful, discard the rest". In the article it mentions their stances on violence, on this I think that Girard is right from a societal level since if everyone was violent in response there would be many blood feuds, however I agree with Nietzsche more, on an individual level I would want revenge, just like anyone wronged by violence, and as a libertarian I would say that instead of lawless revenge there should be a punishment for people being violent that satisfies the party wronged.
 
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Friedrich Nietzsche said:
well after finding the above link I am assuming you are referring to Nietzsche's stance on Christianity
No. I am referring to Girard's stance on Nietzche.

I will find the relevant material and post it here
 
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F @Friedrich Nietzsche I found the article below (from 1976) where René Girard presents his opinion about F. Nietzsche (and about Psychoanalysis' take on him)

Basically, Girard considers Nietzsche to be a pathetic buffoon whose "philosophy" is nothing but an amplified version of the "underground man's" delirium (the narrator from Dostoyevsky's Notes from the Underground). For this, see p. 19ff below

I must say that I am surprised to see someone who knows Girard but is not aware of Girard's rejection of Nietzsche. This rejection is already very apparent in Deceit, Desire and the Novel (Mensonge Romantique et Vérité Romanesque)


Disclaimer: I am not a Christian in any shape or form
 
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F @Friedrich Nietzsche Hello?
 
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Foids are the ultimate hivemind.
 
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Friedrich Nietzsche

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K9Otaku said:
F @Friedrich Nietzsche Hello?
I am not ignoring I just got round to it just now.
 
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Friedrich Nietzsche said:
The Second Concept that I want to introduce is Mate Choice Copying, which is a well known concept at least in the Incel community even if it is not called that here, what it boils down to is women finding men in relationships more attractive than men not in relationships, the reason for this is herd mentality (from what I could gather), if person A has more sexual interest from the opposite sex then there must be a reason for this, this helped women choose the best man to father her offspring.
Not really herd mentality, but pre-selection.
Women are insecure about their social standing (inherently fear of ostracism) and their decision making in relation to it (indecisiveness), as a result, they look for traits in men that other women find attractive because they're safe bets.
 
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Friedrich Nietzsche

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Overdosed said:
Not really herd mentality, but pre-selection.
Women are insecure about their social standing (inherently fear of ostracism) and their decision making in relation to it (indecisiveness), as a result, they look for traits in men that other women find attractive because they're safe bets.
interesting, I think you might be right on that, it seems to make a bit more sense.
K9Otaku said:
F @Friedrich Nietzsche I found the article below (from 1976) where René Girard presents his opinion about F. Nietzsche (and about Psychoanalysis' take on him)

Basically, Girard considers Nietzsche to be a pathetic buffoon whose "philosophy" is nothing but an amplified version of the "underground man's" delirium (the narrator from Dostoyevsky's Notes from the Underground). For this, see p. 19ff below

I must say that I am surprised to see someone who knows Girard but is not aware of Girard's rejection of Nietzsche. This rejection is already very apparent in Deceit, Desire and the Novel (Mensonge Romantique et Vérité Romanesque)


Disclaimer: I am not a Christian in any shape or form
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I only came across Rene Girard when researching this post, the reason for the post being wanting to find out if the phycological phenomenon of mimetic desire involves the same process/part of the brain as mate choice copying. So I don't really know much about him,
but after reading through the pages you sent me I've identified some areas that I agree with and disagree with. on page 1 it says that Nietzsche had an obsession with Wagner, and I think that this insult carries a lot less weight when looking into it, given that there is (not that I see) nothing wrong with liking someone that has characteristics that you want to model, and Nietzsche did not view Wagner as perfect, given he did not like Christianity and Wagner turned to Christianity in later years of his life.
On the second page he says Nietzsche plays the role of worshipped and worshipper, what Girard is getting at is that he has a narcissistic personality, and he was probably right to an extent, since he was so unpopular at the time with most people I think you would need a little narcissism to keep promoting your ideology despite pushback. Also in reference to the worshiped and worshiper, I find it difficult to believe that he had no worshippers at the time, but I may be wrong.
On pages 11 to 12 he mentions will to power being secretly motivated by extreme regard for others, but I'm not sure if that fits the previous picture Girard paints of Nietzsche as a narcissist, as well as the fact Nietzsche was very controversial at the time, given his writings about god being dead and such. But then again the human mind acts in weird ways that can sometimes even be at odds with one another, Jordan Peterson talks about opposing desires I think.
On page 13 Girard brings up a valid argument about holding Nietzsche to his own criteria, Nietzsche tried and tried yet failed continuously, and eventually ended up going mad after seeing a horse getting beaten and living the rest of his days in the care of his mother and sister. I think that although Girard brings up some valid criticisms, I think a lot of it is just insults against him as a person.

Sorry for the late response but I hope this satisfies your question, I only picked out a few talking points otherwise I'd be here all day, but it was an interesting subject you brought to my attention so thanks.
 
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K9Otaku

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Friedrich Nietzsche said:
i I think that although Girard brings up some valid criticisms, I think a lot of it is just insults against him as a person.
No, it goes way deeper than that.

If you want to realize how deep it goes, you have to read Deceit, Desire and the Novel. Otherwise, there is no way you can understand Girard's Mimetic Desire conceptual framework. It is only based on a firm understanding of this framework that you can see why he rejects Nietzsche.

The Christianity aspect is not essential
 
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K9Otaku said:
No, it goes way deeper than that.

If you want to realize how deep it goes, you have to read Deceit, Desire and the Novel. Otherwise, there is no way you can understand Girard's Mimetic Desire conceptual framework. It is only based on a firm understanding of this framework that you can see why he rejects Nietzsche.

The Christianity aspect is not essential
ok cheers for the recommendation.
 
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there is also the term preselection
 
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