Looks, looks, looks. Nothing else.
It's Over [low IQ] people on a blackpill forum argue that ER's "narcissism" is why he didn't get laid.
Elliot became narcisitc to cope with being rejected and ostrasized by women. He could never swallow the blackpill and accept he was a low value male, so he had to create an alter ego and convince himslef he was chadlite.
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There are 99 reasons why people don't get laid but narcissism isn't one of them.
Seems like the forum is becoming less divided on this question. I look forward to the day when only todaycels make "ER wasn't an incel" threads.
Superficial pantomiming is precisely a feature of narcissism, and the metaphor of "mirrors" is commonly used to describe this.
The reason why Elliot Rodger's act was unconvincing is simply because he was autistic and effeminate looking. He had the personality of a shallow Brad, but in the body of a Billy and the neurological framework of a monk.
This lead to massive contradictions which he could not cope with, and he attempted to resolve them through mass-murder -- the only way he figured that he could maintain his grandiose self-image after repeated narcissistic injuries.
None of this detracts from the tragedy of his life, and Elliot Rodger is best understood as a lost child who was left to rot on account of his autism, yet still expected to mature without the means through which to obtain interpersonal relationships and gain life experience (namely, being NT and good looking).
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Cluster B of which narcissistic personality disorder is a part are all of them massively successful at obtaining relationships because as part of their illness they all have an intrinsic ability to mirror their target victims deepest desires of what they dream the perfect partner to be back at them.
Elliot Rodger was not able to do this.
Which is why in his case I used the “broken” mirror analogy.
He was NOT an actual narcissist or NPD so he was unable to properly mirror others much less sell a believable charismatic personality to others that yes while fake is still quite believable enough to draw others in so as to victimize them.
Dr. Robert Hare author of “Without Conscience” who is the world expert on the Cluster B personality disorder known today as ASPD ie anti social personality disorder formerly known as psychopathy/sociopathy once remarked: “The problem with identifying psychopaths could be solved if only all of them were somehow forced to wear a little bell around their necks indicating that is what they are”. Dr. Hare made this point to highlight how effective their false personality is at taking in and fooling even trained clinicians such as himself. Well Elliot Rodger wasn’t “fooling” anyone. What Hare said about the believability factor of the false charismatic and charming personality applies to all other Cluster B Personality disorders as well.
Sometimes the close friends of real Cluster B victims can see through the mask of sanity to the monster within and try in vain to warn their friend away from the predator but usually are unsuccessful because the selling point of “true love“ and of finally finding one’s “soulmate” is too powerful to give up until the person themself becomes convinced of their bad relationship investment.
That said which also furthers my point Elliot Rodger was certainly no predator in this regard at least as again unlike genuine Cluster B’s he was utterly unable to get any hint of a relationship with someone of the opposite sex off the ground.
As for the killings?
Almost everyone even the non disordered have a bit of healthy narcissism in them as it’s the main component that convinces a person to even get out of bed in the morning and or at the very least practice good hygiene.
So Elliot’s killings seem to follow most revenge killings whether by narcissists or nons which is to say its a way for these people to obtain significance and worth of some sort when they perceive whether rightly or wrongly all other avenues for obtaining such is no longer available to them.
This still once again doesn’t make someone a narcissist/NPD.
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This is a common struggle in autism: the need to "mask" (with a narcissistic facade) but the inability to do so competently because of inherent deficits in nonverbal communication and motor skills, which are what enable effective social mimicry.
Autistic people make for bad actors, and so their narcissistic defenses are usually not adequate in covering up for their default states of isolation and exclusion. I can attest to this myself.
Just because you fail to succeed at your socio-sexual adaptation (in this case, narcissism) does mean that you do not apply to it. The fact that narcissism is associated with success at all is a consequence of the ubiquitous din of roasties who bitch about their "narcissistic" Brad exes, and clearly envy them. It is not an intrinsic characteristic of narcissism to be successful, although our capitalist society clearly rewards it given the right set of circumstances, nor does the highly specific NPD diagnosis fully encapsulate it either.
Primary psychopathy is a congenital disorder, which is related to but distinct from narcissism (best understood as a developmental disorder) and autism (another congenital disorder).
With the reference to "Cluster Bs," you are bringing into this discussion the same connotations I spoke of earlier, which obscure your thinking.
There is a tendency to almost deify (or, more accurately, demonize but with a sense of reverence) those who are narcissistic and psychopathic, as if they are successful ipso facto. This is not true. Many narcissists are failures at life because their substandard neurological or physical features overshadow their affected bearing of superiority, and many primary psychopaths are not ambitious and find themselves quite content in being bottom feeding parasites who embrace the NEET rotter life, rather than more audacious and goal-oriented parasites (in business or politics).
Success (or rather, failure) has also been used as a defining criteria for autism, but this is irrelevant to the underlying congenital issues which make one autistic.
Describing a disassociated murder plot as "healthy narcissism" is a massive stretch, but at least you are conceding the fact that Elliot Rodger had narcissistic characteristics.
I do not make this point because I want to castigate Elliot Rodger as a predator or a demon: this is the paradigm that you are operating from.
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Atavistic Autist said:
Perhaps not as in it providing an NPD with the automatic mental/psychological keys to be able to create for themselves a massive multibillion dollar empire, but certainly the vast majority of Cluster B's whether deemed "losers" by society meaning low income to poor and or "bums" to the "winners" ie the afforementioned millionaire types still would intrinsically possess the "successfully" socially manipulative qualities of a Cluster B to at least be able to obtain many relationships even if somehow "damaged" by someother co-morbid mental illness such as autism to not be left out of the pairbonding game entirely as we saw with Elliot.
At best if he were truly Cluster B Narcissist he'd of "done well" meaning had a decent series of relationships ie number for his age but due to other "limiting factors" such as other comorbid mental illnesses altering his Cluster B conditions effectiveness perhaps his number if a genuine NPD would simply not reach the "mean" of other NPD's who did not also suffer from apparent/alleged "autism" as you assert that he had.
That said did he ever admit to being diagnosed with autism by a trained professional in his so called "manifesto" or even "NPD" or "narcissism" as I don't recall it.
All we have to the best of my knowledge are armchair normie NPC psychologists and man hating feminists who screamed and raged about Elliot's supposed "narcissism" and later elements of the manosphere and likely the Chan sites as well that hated Elliot for whatever reason (though probably due exclusively to his inceldom) that only "claim" him to of been an "autist" also with no proof of this in the form of a professional diagnosis.
Atavistic Autist said:
I should clarify that I'm only speaking about their success in terms of both manipulating people "successfully" as well as acquiring relationships "successfully".
They can and often are infact what society would call/deem "losers" despite THIS kind of success which is probably why the psychopaths/sociopaths/ASPD's of the world have had the "used car salesman" stereotype label thrown at them so often in a comparative sense. The reason being that it is often thought or pointed out that used car salesman are very conniving and manipulative in their language skills to attempt to trick/con someone into buying one of their afforementioned used cars.
Atavistic Autist said:
1. I didn't say the act of his killing people was "healthy" or a "healthy expression of narcissism". To put things in proper context we need to remove the word "healthy" from the equation entirely and replace it with "functioning". As THAT is what Elliot's "normal" narcissistic traits (that ALL of us NPD's or nons also possess) allowed him to develop even the necessary motivation to do.
2. Its kind of ridiculous you seem to be trying to misconstrue my words as a victory for your side of the argument when what I said boils down to saying that: "All humans have blood in their veins". Well ALL humans have narcissistic traits as well. Whoopty do.
Again this in no way validates what the MSM, the radfems and you yourself believe about Elliot Rodger supposedly being a narc/NPD.
The etiology of narcissism is that of withdrawing within yourself during childhood, and coping with an unsatisfactory reality through delusions of grandeur, which you never age out of. It is seen in a child (whose needs regarding socializing and nurturing are presumably not being met) imagining himself to be a superhero so much that he fundamentally comes to believe it, and projecting his supposed omnipotence onto his relations with other people.
Narcissists are therefore inherently manipulative and desire to control others, as if they are mere limbs or extensions of themselves, but it does not necessarily follow that they are effective at their manipulations and successfully establish strong dominions or relationships. This is contingent upon intelligence, physical features, motor skills, and nonverbal communication ability, which are different matters entirely.
Narcissism is often co-morbid with neuroticism, if one's delusional grandiosity is not reflected by reality (and it usually isn't). It becomes pathological if you are manifestly incapable of recognizing the fact that your pretenses of superiority are not only false, but severely detrimental to your own purposes in life, and you keep suicidally upping the ante of your false self or alter ego (the ultimate result of which is dying and burning out in a flame of obscurity/"glory").
Elliot Rodger was diagnosed with PDD-NOS, which is on the autism spectrum, and was prescribed drugs for bipolar disorder, which makes sense given that he had a streak of inspired mania to him, so it only follows that his personality was aberrant too. What you call "Cluster B" is merely a sign of a troubled childhood, which is a natural feature of not being neurotypical, even in the best of circumstances. It is no coincidence that a significant proportion of those in psych wards (about 1/14) have been found to suffer from undiagnosed autism.
The use of the term "narcissism" is certainly prejudicial, and in the case of Elliot Rodger, it is typically used as a dismissal of his problems. But the obvious truth is that as a hapa male with autism, his life quality was severely circumscribed from birth, and he was facing definite downward mobility. He had a tragic inheritance and one cannot really fault for him for failing to reconcile himself to his utter atomization and social demise.
Narcissists and psychopaths do not care for relationships in the conventional sense of that term, so "success" in this regard is entirely arbitrary and impertinent as to whether somebody is a narcissist or a psychopath.
Narcissists, for example, either tend to see women as surrogate mothers who can nurture them in the way that their own biological mothers failed to, or else short-term sexual objects (the Madonna-Whore Complex). Both of these are socially undesirable attachment styles and self-destructive by nature.
One can say that an autistic NEET who receives state subsidy is a loser and yet successful, because he has an abundance of the currency of free time, if not money and social connections.
Comparing and contrasting autistic NEETs and psychopathic NEETs would make for an interesting case study.
As above, narcissism is clearly pathological, if not a disorder, when your delusions are so clearly detached from reality that you die in the name of your false sense of superiority.
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