Incels.is - Involuntary Celibate

Welcome! This is a forum for involuntary celibates: people who lack a significant other. Are you lonely and wish you had someone in your life? You're not alone! Join our forum and talk to people just like you.

Lookism shows us someones negative reactions are entirely theirs

W

Wizard

Greycel
Joined
Nov 20, 2017
Posts
9
Online
0
When you talk to a woman and she's disgusted by you, the person wants you to take that disgust on your shoulders. They want to make you the "owner" of the disgust and negativity, your existence caused that reaction in them but they want to attribute a intentional causation to you, they want your actions to be the cause of the disgust and as such they pin it to your neck and run you off in to the desert like a scapegoat. They want to create a distance not only from you but what feelings you brought up in them.

The personality meme lays on the false assumptions that social interaction between two human beings is naturally positive, and that again lays the sin at your feet when this pure, good, nature is not manifested by your actions. People are good, human interaction is good, and as such you must have corrupted the process, you must have done something grossly wrong, you must have upended the natural order with corrupt intention. The disgust and negative response from the other person was your creation, it was your corruption thrown back in your face, and you take ownership as the creator of that negativity and must let it flow through your entire being as something you brought in to existence.

The reality is that human interaction is not a innately positive thing for both parties, it implicates certain parties in equivalence, it compromises sense of self, it can disgust people, it can bring on dissonance, it can unsettle peoples peace, it can bring on physiological reactions. Your existence and external form alone can bring on these negative outcomes from social interaction and the ability to bridge the gap does not come from words and conversation, it does not come from overtures, it must come from someone who is willing to treat you as a human being to begin with. We have no control over if people are willing to treat us as human beings, we have no control over how much they rely on distancing themselves from what you "are" to keep their personal peace and identity.

There are so many barriers between us and we know how much our external attractiveness, our social status, our value, modifies how people even interpret our intentions. Conversation as an act does not break this, pure intentions do not break this, trying to convey your pure intentions in the most honest way can not break this. There must be an agreement to treat each other as human beings, this is not the natural state of nature. This is not the natural state of social interaction, one person opening up and taking the initial hit of aversion does not inspire the other to open up. Game theory does not apply here with an asymmetricc value proposition. Until there is, people's social reactions are their own, they will try to lay them on your soul but they are theirs alone. You can only reflect on your intentions, you can only reflect on what you intended from the interaction, you can only engage and when they try to lay negative emotions at your heart with their reaction remember this is all theirs, this is their creation, this is their disgust. It is not yours, you do not corrupt anything, this is all there ever was.

You can pay attention to this interactions to predict the future, to know what's likely to happen in the future and anticipate outcomes in a mechanical way. You can know that the feeling of rejection will hurt emotionally, you can know that it will feel bad when they make a disgusted face, you can know what it feels like to have it confirmed you will be cut off from the social world, you can know what it means to be a low value man who is vulnerable to the social world. But, you can feel them and return them back to their faithful owner, the one who tries to lay it at your feet. Your ability to know why they treated you this way is completely limited if they won't let you engage with them, assuming that you corrupted it with your action in the heat of the conversation leads to the complex analysis that creates these emotional overwhelming moments. You rip apart your own soul inflicting all this negative energy in every possible way on your actions, intentions, and application of "knowledge" yet we know there's plenty of reasons why someone could inflict it on you that are not your fault, and not valid. You are not always the corrupter.

An analysis of our actions must be carried out postmortem in considered manner, we take mental notes and consider it at night with a piece of paper. But in the moment we must create a wall in a sense, lookism is an example of why they could be treating us this way and the one most of us suspect. We build up that stoic wall and refuse to take on their disgust, if they are not willing to actually give us a conversation discussing their emotions and letting us explain our intention then there is no intention at actual discussion or interaction. Do not take it on, do not let it flow through you.

If we work through what it means to be a low value man, and accept the outcomes of that, we can not be pushed in to anxiety about the confirmation that we're a low value man. The possibility of being alone forever, the possibility of being dominated by the socially valuable, we accept them. Then we can just accept those brief flashes of rejection and disgust and hand them back.

We are not the corrupters of some pure world, we may be an inconvenient truth that exposes a nature of the world they had preferred to ignore, but we are not the corrupters of human interaction. Do not let them make you a vessel of sin to absolve the fallen world, let it slide off you and take confidence that their social reaction is their own alone.
 
DAFMFP

DAFMFP

Recruit
★★★
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Posts
259
Online
0
Very thoroughly written post, Mr. Wizard.
 
idkwattodowithlife

idkwattodowithlife

Banned
-
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Posts
7,519
Online
0
Looks seeps into everything we do in life; there's no matter of escape from it.
 
W

Wizard

Greycel
Joined
Nov 20, 2017
Posts
9
Online
0
DAFMFP said:
Very thoroughly written post, Mr. Wizard.

Just trying to get out what I was thinking, the whole thing was just to put the second paragraph in context I guess. Hope someone gets something from it.





idkwattodowithlife said:
Looks seeps into everything we do in life; there's no matter of escape from it.

Yup, we can work through what that means for us though and break down the things we've been told to discard their programming. It brings about some peace I believe, it removes the dissonance, it's gradually done it for me.
 
W

Wizard

Greycel
Joined
Nov 20, 2017
Posts
9
Online
0
slackbum said:

Personality people believe social interaction is innately positive between two human beings. Well intentioned social interaction from unattractive and low status men can be detrimental to the other person and completely unwanted. Assuming interaction is innately positive is an attempt to make unattractive men take responsibility for the social interaction going wrong and then meticulously process all the negative and painful emotions as their fault. When we encounter a situation where our intentions are pure and they react negatively, that reaction is their creation alone and we can stoicly refuse to feel bad when they try to blame us for our existence making them uncomfortable.Just a line of thought to make it easier to ignore rejection and looks of disgust from women.
 
Fontaine

Fontaine

Overlord
★★★★★
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Posts
5,432
Online
18h 23m
slackbum said:

The fair world fallacy implies that when someone causes a negative reaction in people, it's always his fault.

But in fact, the world is not fair, and the reaction people have to you can sometimes be influenced by things that are outside the realm of behavior. (Eg a burn victim will scare children away, and some adults too).

The way to peace is understanding that. It's accepting that sometimes things go wrong without you being directly responsible. It's expecting the worst always, so that it can only go up from there, rather than down.

(This very thing, always expecting the worst, actually decreased my inhibition and improved my social life. You don't fear rejection anymore; you wait for it; and if it doesn't happen, great).
 
nausea

nausea

Fesikh
★★★★★
Joined
Nov 9, 2017
Posts
16,647
Online
16d 13h 49m
in syntesis, avoid any interaction with femonics

and no, we shall not accept to die without fighting back
 
B

Berdea

Banned
-
Joined
Nov 12, 2017
Posts
458
Online
0
Good post. All that bullshit on leddit about how it's our own fault is absolutely bullshit invented so those people on their can feel better about the things they have done, and the lack of actions they have taken. If it were our own fault and it was so easy to correct our own behavior and be "good normal person" then obviously that would have worked for us already. I imagine the majority of us have already attempted such solutions and the failure of them has ultimately left us more inclined to solitude and hatred than anything else.
 
U

undeadcel

Officer
★★★
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Posts
755
Online
26m
I love your posts
 
rickvanderhammer

rickvanderhammer

Banned
-
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Posts
859
Online
0
i didn't even get paid from my last job only because i'm unattractive, at this point why should i leave the house. you ever hear people say that person has a punchable face? that's all the proof you need that how you're percieved by other people is determined by your looks. my entire life iv'e been a scapegoat, if somebody gets a dopamine reuptake blame the nearest unattractive person.
 
T

theson

wyattu cokku onry
-
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Posts
4,063
Online
27d 11h 0m
It doesn't really stop the pain of loneliness. Nothing really can stop it. We're biologically programmed to feel that pain.
 
Enigmatic93

Enigmatic93

Banned
-
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Posts
1,449
Online
0
rickvanderhammer said:
i didn't even get paid from my last job only because i'm unattractive, at this point why should i leave the house. you ever hear people say that person has a punchable face? that's all the proof you need that how you're percieved by other people is determined by your looks. my entire life iv'e been a scapegoat, if somebody gets a dopamine reuptake blame the nearest unattractive person.

wut
 
QuantumDummy

QuantumDummy

solum
★★★★
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
Posts
4,752
Online
0
BlackPill47

BlackPill47

Major
★★★
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Posts
2,193
Online
0
So therefore: Face is everything.

It's over, boyos.
 
rickvanderhammer

rickvanderhammer

Banned
-
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Posts
859
Online
0
Enigmatic93 said:

i'm a 2/10 submissive beta cuck so naturally i'm going to be taken advantage of. if you cant relate you don't belong here and should go back to reddit
 
bigantennaemay1

bigantennaemay1

Autistic social drifter without purpose or home
★★★★★
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Posts
11,488
Online
63d 2h 32m
theson said:
It doesn't really stop the pain of loneliness. Nothing really can stop it. We're biologically programmed to feel that pain.

Something can stop that pain, something wonderful, something mysterious, something powerful:  I speak, of course, about death.
 
Enigmatic93

Enigmatic93

Banned
-
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Posts
1,449
Online
0
rickvanderhammer said:
i'm a 2/10 submissive beta cuck so naturally i'm going to be taken advantage of. if you cant relate you don't belong here and should go back to reddit

Bro calm down.

How did you not get paid from your last job? Was it sales or something and you couldn't make any commission?
 
G

gstvtrp

Banned
-
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Posts
2,291
Online
0
This is a fucking amazing post. Many completely novel ideas here.

How do you suggest we "hand back" those reactions though? I've tried to do it but unsuccessfully but I was not thinking in this framework. Is there something that could be said? A lot of times people will try to cut off the interaction by moving away in some fashion, is there a way to interrupt this to get your point across? This response doesn't have to be in good faith, I just want to make the rejector feel how they intended the rejectee to feel.

This actually reminds me on how my early days on okcupid, I could send a bunch of earnest and genuine messages without response but if I sent an insulting message they would take the time to answer me and treat me like a human being if you think about it.

Next time, I might just say "damn, I didn't know an ugly girl would have such high standards" and see how it goes.
 
bkdreamkb

bkdreamkb

unemployed and alcoholic
★★★★
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Posts
831
Online
1d 6h 2m
Fontaine said:
slackbum said:
The fair world fallacy implies that when someone causes a negative reaction in people, it's always his fault.
But in fact, the world is not fair, and the reaction people have to you can sometimes be influenced by things that are outside the realm of behavior. (Eg a burn victim will scare children away, and some adults too).
The way to peace is understanding that. It's accepting that sometimes things go wrong without you being directly responsible. It's expecting the worst always, so that it can only go up from there, rather than down.
(This very thing, always expecting the worst, actually decreased my inhibition and improved my social life. You don't fear rejection anymore; you wait for it; and if it doesn't happen, great).
 
W

Wizard

Greycel
Joined
Nov 20, 2017
Posts
9
Online
0
gstvtrp said:
How do you suggest we "hand back" those reactions though? I've tried to do it but unsuccessfully but I was not thinking in this framework. Is there something that could be said? A lot of times people will try to cut off the interaction by moving away in some fashion, is there a way to interrupt this to get your point across? This response doesn't have to be in good faith, I just want to make the rejector feel how they intended the rejectee to feel.

Ultimately you can't make them feel how they intended you to feel because the dynamic isn't there, if you want some sort of revenge then frustrating their ability to offload their disgust on to you works that way. Essentially if you don't accept it and show defeat or "back down" with negative emotions they never have confirmation of laying the punch, and they're just left with their dissonance. My intention was always my own peace though.

Meditation and "Mindfulness" are effective tools when separated from some of the social narratives therapists give you, I was never really able to utilize those skills until I had an intellectual framework for understanding the interaction. It was too overwhelming. If you have a confidence that you are not the owner of those negative emotions, and their disgust is their own invalid interpretation, it's easier to just let that initial emotional spike rise and fall. I think the panic and emotional whirlwinding is stopped a little by having a framework like you say to address what this outcome means, instead of taking the horrible feeling of rejection and repeating in your head trying to work out what you did to cause this horrible emotion while you stand in an emotional meltdown. It's externalizing it I guess. Maybe visualizing it as them throwing an energy ball at you that smacks you right in the chest, hard, will help; you couldn't stop the ball being thrown at you because scowling and disgusted facial reactions from non-dehumanized people feel terrible to social animals. But after that initial hit, you don't let the ball turn in to smoke that envelops your body and mind, you gather it up in to a ball and drop it on the ground while they stare at it. Just leave it. As I say that would have sounded stupid to me years ago when people treating me like shit was a completely overwhelming mental breakdown situation, but working out these situations intellectually had a knock on effect that made it viable.

Edit : Also thank you for the kind words, and the kind words of everyone in this thread. I really appreciate them and hope it helps.
 

Similar threads

Ellsworth
Replies
3
Views
262
텍스트
텍스트
NorthernWind
Replies
1
Views
148
IamLost
IamLost
RubenRamirez
Replies
2
Views
246
mistersinister
mistersinister
UglyandLoveless
Replies
12
Views
462
mentalcel1
mentalcel1
shape1
shape2
shape3
shape4
shape7
shape8
Top