epillepsy said:
falling in love with an escort is cucked but it's not as big a problem as it may seem
because they make it so clear you're a business transaction to them and don't like even looking at you, at least in my experience.
Ironically that kind of honesty could make me fall hard, because if girls who like you don't exist and all you have to choose from is girls who DGAF and are honest vs girls who DGAF but pretend to get your cash, the latter repulses me more.
epillepsy said:
even if you have to take phenibut to get the low-inhib to manage it?
Normy guys drink alcohol to relax and get low-anxiety to approach foids, doesn't seem much different.
epillepsy said:
and it's not that expensive to get a escort. you can be regular ugly and escorts won't reject you.
But maybe they charge more, which can have the effect of doing so.
There's a term in employment law called "constructive dismissal" where employers don't literally fire you, but they'll do shit like make your job harder, give you bad hours, pay you less, harass you, etc where they try to make you quit.
That's basically what an escort can do even if her intention is not to actually lose you as a customer. Employers can be guilty of constructive dismissal without actually wanting an employment to quit. It's enough to be unaccomodating enough that they can't bear the cost.
epillepsy said:
if escortcelling is considered ascension, then anyone who doesn't do it is a mentalcel, commonly agreed here to not exist.
but there's the argument that you're volcel if you don't get an escort.
There's likely very often not a clear dividing line between the concepts of mentalcel and volcel, because it's not always clear how much is free uncompelled choice and compelled hangups that lead to failure to follow-through which one might minimize through copes/denials.
Ultimately though, here we obviously do embrace the idea that it's okay to not stick our dicks in any human orifice whatsoever.
Whether we class that as voluntary choice or involuntary revulsion doesn't really matter IMO. It actually is hard to just narrow it down to one because everything we do is a mix of impulse and contemplation to varying degrees.
epillepsy said:
whatever, though.
if this forum becomes so anti-escorts and starts banning escortcels it's probably not that great of a place to be.
too much witch hunting will happen and everyone will just start lying to fit in.
The debate boils down to a previous lack of consistency as to whether celibacy refers to sex or romantic relationships or both.
The change in the rules from 2018>2020 seems to side with the idea that celibate/non-celibate hinges purely on if you have a romantic relationship.
I understand why that's done (because "escortcels" understand discrimination) but at the same time, it creates a weird problem:
1) how do we define what a romantic relationship is? Just feelings, or physical reinforcement? Is the husband who's been married 10 years to an wife yet never done anything sexual with her actually "non-celibate", or just a strong candidate for "probably getting cucked by Chad under the illusion his wife is asexual"?
2) how do we exclude Chad who gets sex on the regular but is "just friends" with all his fuckbuddy foids and doesn't do any mutual lovey-dovey stuff?
I mean fuck, technically escorts/prostitutes are "celibate" because they don't have romantic feelings with their clients? That's just not the image I get from celibacy.
Even though the origins of the term celibacy actually seem to refer to whether or not you got married (ie the "celibate priest" who remains single) this came from an era where it's implied you're not having sex outside of marriage, so the idea that celibates were also not having sex at all I think was present as well.
You could argue in fact that this was the entire point: "I'm not married" was just a polite way of communicating "I'm not having sex" in the Victorian age without actually discussing the coital things which only husband and wife were meant to be doing.
epillepsy said:
and people will say you shouldn't see escorts and die miserable as a virgin, just because they themselves are too high-inhib to see an escort.
Eh maybe. Aside from being high-inhib overally I believe I have supplementary inhibitions about this issue. If it were merely that I was nervous I think I would've made a stronger attempt to overcome my inhibitions, but there's good reasons not to, and those are the reasons I preach against it.
1) legal gray area, you could get punished
2) if you think this is just going to cure your misery you might be wrong, it might even make you more miserable
3) you're shifting resources to foids they haven't earned giving them power to continue to control our society and promote misandric agendas
epillepsy said:
that's a real crab bucket. i honestly can't see a really valid reason for NOT escortcelling unless you are too high-inhib, especially if you jerk off to porn with dicks in them. imo that's way more cucked than seeing an escort, getting off on another man's cock, and gay as well.
If I fapped to a video of a woman masturbating while lying on a towel it doesn't mean I'm sexually attracted to the towel.
Simply being in the video and providing context/scenarios for foids to be in isn't grounds to say that the window-dressing is suddenly the focus of the erotica.
If the whole point is "I'm pretending the guy is me" then you're mentally supplanting the male in porn with yourself.
It mainly seems gay if you have trouble with using your imagination, because if you're less capable of doing that mental substitution then you generally fixate on the male as a distraction which upsets you.
It upsets me too: when I'm not able to ignore the guy then I'll usually ditch it and do something else. Maybe I'll come back to it some other time and be more able to compartmentalize and enjoy it, dunno. We have fluctuating mental capacities.
if the idea is that you are aroused by the idea of having sex with a foid then you need to mimic that in some way, and while I guess that can be done to some degree by the foid just using a glass dildo on herself or some shit, that can be too far from the reality to mimic it properly.
epillepsy said:
and apparently if you get sex at any point by any means you were a "fakecel" all along
That seems dumb to me, because if you were a 6'6" handsome chad swimming in pussy for years and then had all 4 limbs blown off and your face reduced to skeletal scar tissue, I can buy that you became a legit incel even if you weren't born one.
Odds are that such a Chad probably gets pussy though (just shows his old picture to foids, so she knows he has good DNA and wants his babies) so maybe I need a more extreme scenario like "Chad who got his dick blown off".
Let's use "Glen" Becker, the ex-husband of Catherine Kieu Becker as an example.
He's literally unable to have sexual intercourse because his severed penis was put into a garbage disposal.
Prior to this, it seems like he was having sex with his wife, and maybe even a girlfriend on the side, so he obvious was not celibate then.
Seems pretty likely he's celibate NOW though, and involuntarily so.
Is anyone going to argue some kind of "he might be non-celibate if he can find some foid who lets him eat her out" bullshit?
Or maybe it's "sex" if he can find some foid who sticks her tongue into what's left of his urethra, or fucks him with a strapon?
If so, sounds like BS to me, it's not sex if you're not getting your dick serviced, and he has none to ervice.
epillepsy said:
it really is a slippery slope if men who can't get attention from women and choose to deal with that through escorts are banned.
pretty soon then all white people will get banned and then talls.
don't tell me that escortcels are ruining the forum because many of the best members here have use escorts in the past.
you have to consider that as well.
I think what frustrates me is we always have vague parameters on the boundaries of what celibacy is.
epillepsy said:
are you saying escortcelling is same as betabuxxing? but betabuxxing may not be an option for everyone, although escortcelling is.
Neither is an option for everyone, and as to which option is more accessible, that probably depends on a LOT of factors.
In societies which have very strict penalties for prostitutes for example, betabuxing is probably a much more feasible option.
It's certainly lower-risk, legally speaking, and perhaps medically (STDs) if not financially.
Sometimes maybe it is a better to betabux with a plain wife who cucks you than seeing escorts on the regular?
Maybe not on a "price per fuck" basis but if there were any side benefits like if the foid happened to do basic help stuff like vacuum or cook, though that seems to happen increasingly less.
epillepsy said:
and if you say you need to be low-inhib, as i've said, there are legal supplements you can take
This seems like saying "if you need to be tall, there are surgeries you can have".
Inhibition-lowering drugs may be cheaper and lower-risk but it's a similar quesiton: just how much risk to our health or damage to our wallet should we be expected to incur for the CHANCE that it might lead to some kind of brief satisfaction?
I think there's too kinds of standards we need to think about here:
we get mad at guys who have standards too high with women in terms of women's looks (ie foid can't help if she's a butterface and we should empathize with that)
but other standards of women's looks are more acceptable (ie: incels should not be guilted/excluded for not spending time/money sending valentine's chocolates trying to woo some 900lb landwhale)
Now let's say in theory an incel could work a full-time minimum-wage job and over the course of 10 years manages to scrimp together 10,000 dollars in savings.
Is he a "volcel" or "mentalcel" if he doesn't want to trade the entire 10,000 for sex from an escort/sugarbaby/butabuxee? If he might have a better investment for his money, for his time?
epillepsy said:
and in any case the concept of mentalceldom (which applies here if escortcels are not acceptable as incels) is frowned upon here
That's a problem we should also confront, because men do have a realistic plight if they can't have a relationship with a looksmatch on reasonable terms. Having any form of standards doesn't exclude them, because it's impossible not to have SOME form of standards dictating your behaviors.
I think a solid majority of our userbase has a "don't try to get oral sex from or give anal sex to men" standard, for example.
As to why we have it, I imagine it's primarily "I don't try to get things I don't want" combined with "some things are too different from what I aspire to have for my imagination to compensate for"
But is that the ONLY standard we're allowed to have?
For all you escortcels: if an escort told you she was HIV positive and that the only way she'll fuck you for money (and it costs 25,000 dollars per fuck BTW) is if you share a needle with her: would you feel compelled to do all this to avoid thinking of yourself as a mentalcel/volcel?
I think most escortcels probably would not do that: they would refuse, have blue balls for that night, and be patient and shop around in hopes of finding a better opportunity/scenario with a better risk/reward ratio.
If we fathom is is okay to have this kind of restraint with prostitutes, I don't see why so many of us have difficulty fathoming that it's acceptable to have restraint like that in general.
Whether or not a foid wants money up front, she's obviously a risk you're letting into your life. If you got wealthy for example, a girl might pretend to like you and fuck you but then when you're asleep, steal your credit card and rack up 20,000 in debt on it.
Such an example is clearly no better off in terms of their romantic capabilities than someone overtly pursuing escorts: in either case the only divergence from their celibacy was a girl out to exploit him, whether she did so honestly or dishonestly.
epillepsy said:
a betabuxx is harder than escortcelling because the foid at least has to want to be seen around public with you and her friends will know she is with you.
Not necessarily: not all foids would necessarily emphasize IRL friends or social outings.
TBH that's the kind of antisocial girl I would go for anyway because I generally hate that normy shit.
Also maybe for some of them having an ugly husband is some kind of virtue signalling about how non-shallow she is?
Plus the more pathetic your husband the more of a "come fuck me Chad" sign she has around her neck.
They even rationalize that she deserves to be secretly fucked by Chad because she deserves sexual fulfillment from her husband and he's being ABUSIVE if he can't get her off.
epillepsy said:
an escort session is done in secret, so there's no need for the foid to worry about social repercussions, plus she's already a hooker, how much worse can it get?
Escorts definitely have to worry about social repercussions if they're keeping that secret, even if the repercussions these days aren't near what they once were.
I expect there are a lot of "off the books" escorts who never advertise and just maybe offer compensated sex to their beta orbiters TBH.
Not overtly even, just kind of whining for help like "I need a place to stay" to get in-kind payments.
If for example a foid "friend" fucked an orbiter twice per year and got to live with him for free that entire time, if she'd normally need to pay 1000/mo in rent she's basically earning $12,000 for 2 fucks which works out to $6,000 per fuck, more than a lot of escorts get.
Not to mention she's probably getting free food or something too, and she can obscure that by vacuuming every 2 months or something and then say it's a 50/50 split in contributions.
@BPJ. His presence is much more appreciated than some old 2017 sewer tier shitposter 
