Serious It's immoral to have children.

[wizardcel]

"I have suffered horribly since I was a teen because of severe bullying in school that left me profoundly traumatised to the point I had to abandon school. Unhappily, I also have terrible looks and I’ve been judged, mocked, insulted because of being ‘too ugly’ even by random strangers in the street what usually happens almost daily. I’ve been called the ugliest person they ever seen. That’s extremely hard to deal with. Then, to finish it, I’ve been diagnosed with a serious congenital heart disease when I was just 18, and today in my early 20s, I suffer from severe heart failure and malignant arrhythmia that threaten to kill me. My heart has almost stopped many times and I deal with the fear of sudden death each day of my existence. I am petrified by fear of death and the agony and torment of imminent death is indescribable. I don’t have much time left and the unavoidable will happen soon. My life has been pure hell and I don’t even know what to think anymore. Certainly, sentencing someone to such a world is the worst of all crimes, and a serious moral violation. If it wasn’t by my parents’ selfish desire, I wouldn’t be here today suffering what I suffer for no reason at all, I could have been spared in the absolute peace of non-existence but I am here living this daily torture"

source

 

[Gengar]

One can always go back to non-existence... or maybe not?

 

[Smallondick]

or maybe not?

 

[HarvesterOfInceldom]

In vitro fertilization is the future. I for sure will be having my own kids without females interfering

 

[Edu_thepatheticguy]

I feel so bad for this guy.

 

[Deleted member 16809]

its only immoral if you are of a shit genetic stock

 

[Insomniac]

It’s especially immoral if you’re a shit parent and won’t give your child the best life possible. So many parents are abusive and neglectful.

Glad my parents weren’t at least.

 

[Reimu Hakurei]

Fuck, i didn't want to feel. How do i unclick this thread?

 

[Deleted member 8353]

While I agree with Benatar, I don't think his axiological asymmetry goes far enough. Pleasure as an incentive to continue existence would imply that it does something other that remove an already existing pain/negative/irritation, that it actually creates something positive. I don't see any real evidence of this, looking at just about anything that we consider pleasant. Meaning that the existence of a fleeting pleasure is inextricably bound to an already present(and always worse) pain, therefore it is no more than an illusory incentive to continue existence which our brains trick us into believing.

 

[Michael15651]

I feel so bad for this guy.

 

[Remyx]

That's right, there is absolutely no point in any of this, but low lifeforms will keep breeding like the stupid, brainwashed animals they are

 

[JimJones]

People sub8 shouldn't have kids

 

[Mr Joyboy]

1) FRAT

2) There wouldn't be 7 billion of us on Earth if humans were in any way sensitive to the recommendations of anti-natal "philosophy" so its supposed truth would be besides the point anyway.

3) To the extent that anti-natal positions are persuasive, they are only persuasive (to the point of adjusting behaviour) to high-IQ people who might actually have the kind of children which would benefit the humans around them, and anti-natalism would thereby contribute to the suffering condition of humanity which it claims to extinguish.

4) Anti-natalism is a post-hoc cope for middle class white people who prefer personal hedonism to bearing the responsibility of children, no one in a position to have kids really believes it.

 

[GeneticDysfunction]

its only immoral if you are of a shit genetic stock

Shutup retard, there are infinite amount of problems in this fucking existence other than being genetic shit

 

[Deleted member 16809]

Shutup retard, there are infinite amount of problems in this fucking existence other than being genetic shit

problems for who exactly? life is a beautiful adventure if you have chad genetics, the worst thing that can happen to you as a chad is your parents dying

 

[FlamingCel]

People sub8 shouldn't have kids

 

[Deleted member 8353]

2) There wouldn't be 7 billion of us on Earth if humans were in any way sensitive to the recommendations of anti-natal "philosophy" so its supposed truth would be besides the point anyway.

You're correct in saying that antinatalism isn't a philosophy, it's a conclusion that can be reached through an ethical theory. However the fact that most humans will never adopt the position is not evidence of the negative assessment of existence being untrue.

3) To the extent that anti-natal positions are persuasive, they are only persuasive (to the point of adjusting behaviour) to high-IQ people who might actually have the kind of children which would benefit the humans around them, and anti-natalism would thereby contribute to the suffering condition of humanity which it claims to extinguish.

This argument is directed against the application of antinatalism, not the reasoning behind it. I agree that attempting to convince the public not to have kids would be either useless, or ultimately counterproductive. There is no way for this position to be applied in a voluntary manner.

4) Anti-natalism is a post-hoc cope for middle class white people who prefer personal hedonism to bearing the responsibility of children, no one in a position to have kids really believes it.

Citation needed.
However I often wonder about this myself. Perhaps one can only look upon the function of life objectively as an outsider, although it's probably more likely that we're both projecting our own lives onto other people. I'm assuming that I came to this conclusion because I'm incel, but the idea that everyone else who feels the same way had a similar life doesn't really follow from that.

 

[Mr Joyboy]

You're correct in saying that antinatalism isn't a philosophy, it's a conclusion that can be reached through an ethical theory. However the fact that most humans will never adopt the position is not evidence of the negative assessment of existence being untrue.

That's why I said it being true is "besides the point", I'm explicitly being agnostic about it being true or not.

This argument is directed against the application of antinatalism, not the reasoning behind it. I agree that attempting to convince the public not to have kids would be either useless, or ultimately counterproductive. There is no way for this position to be applied in a voluntary manner.

I freely admit I'm not interested in the reasoning behind it, because my pragmatic objections to it are (to me) overwhelming.

Citation needed.
However I often wonder about this myself. Perhaps one can only look upon the function of life objectively as an outsider, although it's probably more likely that we're both projecting our own lives onto other people. I'm assuming that I came to this conclusion because I'm incel, but the idea that everyone else who feels the same way had a similar life doesn't really follow from that.

Though I didn't make it explicit, I think my statement here was obviously a personal suspicion/opinion.

You seem like a good philosophycel, I hope we have more interactions in the future.

 

[r9kcel]

Yeah if my child had my features on top of my cluster headaches It would simply be better off not being born

 

[Deleted member 8353]

Though I didn't make it explicit, I think my statement here was obviously a personal suspicion/opinion.

I know, that's why I posted my thinking as well. In some ways I feel similarly to you, but I find it difficult to contend with. There was a poll done by @Mainländer a few months ago asking if you agree with antinatalism, the results were far more supportive than you would ever get out of a much larger and more generalized sample, given what I've seen of public opinion on the issue.

Could it be that I only reached this point due to being excluded from sex, and if true, does it make me wrong?

You seem like a good philosophycel, I hope we have more interactions in the future.

That's nice of you to say

 

[Michael15651]

People sub8 shouldn't have kids

 

[Deleted member 126]

Procreation is the ultimate act of selfishness. Think about the millions of souls being tortured in HELL for all eternity. Do you think those people regret being born? They surely do. I cannot think of anything more selfish and evil then FORCING a life into this tortured existence.

 

[Anoncel123]

People sub8 shouldn't have kids

My inceldom ensures me not to pass my defective genes anyways.

 

[Sniffles]

It isn't immoral if you are going to pamper the child and never force the child to do anything it doesn't want to and protect it and genuinely love it. Also no siblings.

 

[RollD20]

Its immoral to have children if you are a incel subhuman with shitty genetic line, you are just making more human's to suffer.

 

[FaceandHFD]

Well if you are fairly good looking PSL 5+ and/or you have money, it wouldnt be that bad tbh ngl

 

[Cuyen]

I dont give shit tbh if I get chance I will have shit ton of children.

 

[GeneticDysfunction]

This just shows that you are a basement dwelling autist. There are countless diseases, countless ways to be disfigured or disabled. Oh but if you have muh chad genetics everything should be fine
@chesscel

 

[Deleted member 15752]

It’s especially immoral if you’re a shit parent and won’t give your child the best life possible. So many parents are abusive and neglectful.

Glad my parents weren’t at least.

 

[Michael15651]

I cannot think of anything more selfish and evil then FORCING a life into this tortured existence.