Serious Inceldom as gender dysphoria?

[thePhantom]

I read an article on gender dysphoria/transsexualism (https://www.svd.se/ansiktsoperationen-fick-henne-att-vaga-ga-ut-igen/i/senaste for Swedes or those who wanna Google translate) and thought there are startling similarities between the manifestations of gender dysphoria and the aspects of inceldom that are more general than mere lack of sex. To be precise, the lack of social acceptance due to physical attributes and consequences to mental well-being seem to be the same, as do the solutions (surgery). While transsexuals are born in a body "of the wrong gender", incels are born in an unattractive body, so there is a clear difference of course (making my title a little misleading and perhaps provocative). Nevertheless, analogies with gender dysphoria could be a way for both incels themselves and (if one dares be optimistic) healthcare practitioners to understand the inceldom condition better and find ways to improve quality of life.

 

[TheHumanFactor]

If a man doesn't have sex with sexy women then it's only natural to developgneder dysphoria.

 

[Solitarian_Walker]

I have thought about it. I don't identify with this body I was given. I identify as an attractive male. Why can't I get corrective surgery to make me Chad?

 

[Ritalincel]

I identify as an attractive male

 

[ICanOnlyFapToBDSM]

I have thought about it. I don't identify with this body I was given. I identify as an attractive male. Why can't I get corrective surgery to make me Chad?

yes

 

[Solitarian_Walker]

yes

hell yes

 

[thePhantom]

Imagine a world where an incel can go to the psychiatrist, do a brief examination, get the "attractiveness dysphoria" diagnosis, and then be sent for testosterone shots and facial surgery paid by the universal healthcare system ...

 

[Jockcel]

I am Chad inside.

 

[Solitarian_Walker]

My preferred pronoun: Chad.

 

[caturday]

You're onto something.

 

[ADD Sufferer]

I've always said I suffer from Attraction Deficit Disorder. I just need the scientific community to recognise it and start handing me disability payments.

 

[leftyincel]

I thought you were going to say we are all women who want to be chased born in a man's body.
or that we are hypermasculine men with huge sex drives stuck in the body of a dweeb

In that case we are most like FTM transsexuals who are just starting T. Stuck in a feminine body, but have T going through our veins. Too dysphoric to chase women and so we wait for women to chase us (a lot of us).

 

[thePhantom]

I've always said I suffer from Attraction Deficit Disorder. I just need the scientific community to recognise it and start handing me disability payments.

Brilliant!

 

[Deleted member 677]

 

[thePhantom]

both incels and transgenders drink water! duuude

I expected a few of the notorious brainlets to find their way here too eventually. Don't overexert yourselves, but if you actually try to think through the matter you may come to realize that this analogy may provide leverage against a society that tends to nonchalantly dismiss as a purely psychological problem the harm suffered by those whose looks are subpar. If you think it's "soy" that inceldom is largely a question of being born in a shitty body, then you have nothing to do on this forum.

 

[thePhantom]

Being born as an undesirable male (80% of the population of males) is not equivalent to being born as a male who wants to cut off their penis and claims to be female.

If one looks beyond the superficial there are similarities that may well be profound. It wouldn't surprise me if the psychological mechanisms behind the respective feelings of bodily inadequacy in social contexts turned out to be identical, even though the specifics of how the bodies are lacking are different. I would argue that an essential part of feeling like a man is receiving female validation, so a lack of that is a form of emasculation which may well be considered a form of literal gender dysphoria. Simply put: Having the body of an unattractive male is having a body which is not fully male at all.

 

[David_the_Fugitive]

If one looks beyond the superficial there are similarities that may well be profound. It wouldn't surprise me if the psychological mechanisms behind the respective feelings of bodily inadequacy in social contexts turned out to be identical, even though the specifics of how the bodies are lacking are different. I would argue that an essential part of feeling like a man is receiving female validation, so a lack of that is a form of emasculation which may well be considered a form of literal gender dysphoria. Simply put: Having the body of an unattractive male is having a body which is not fully male at all.

Interesting hypothesis.

 

[thePhantom]

To reiterate: being an average male is not equivalent to mental illness. If men are unhappy because of the gynocracy they live in that is not an internal malfuntion it is a societal one.
To compare transgenders and men together because of the society which fails to validate them is absurd, you may as well include rapists, pedophiles, and inside traders

The problem in both cases arises as an incongruity between the internally perceived social role and the social response given due to physical appearance. Whether the internal perception itself is a symptom of mental illness or not is not the point here. You may argue that surgery is not the appropriate intervention in the case of an otherwise healthy male and that it is society/foids that "should" change, but this isn't realistic for the individual incel who seeks pragmatically oriented help and empathy for his situation.

 

[Nemo9065]

Transgenderism is what happens to incel men who are mentally fractured from insecurity brought on by outsider influences (chad, stacy). They take the trappill and become a tranny in hope to get the same attention as all the stacies they once wanted got and usually it ends up with a horribly disfigured she-man even more ignored and despised.

 

[thePhantom]

While this at first glance appears true, it is not. The problem of inceldom is the huge number of incels persists while the female population has no trouble whatsoever. This creates a large number of angry and emasculated men, regardless of physical appearance but especially so for ugly and ethnic and short males. I cant tell you what the problem is for transgenders, all I can tell you is it is a different problem.

I'm not even saying it is the same problem on the societal level. I'm pointing to similarities in the psychological harm caused by those problems. You are pretty much saying that the problems of starvation in the medieval Aztec empire were caused by different mechanisms than in Mao's China. I'm saying that the feeling of hunger was the same. Therefore I'm not necessarily claiming any society-wide solutions, just possible best solutions for the individual incel.

Transgenderism is what happens to incel men who are mentally fractured from insecurity brought on by outsider influences (chad, stacy). They take the trappill and become a tranny in hope to get the same attention as all the stacies they once wanted got and usually it ends up with a horribly disfigured she-man even more ignored and despised.

You should re-read the posts; you are missing the point.

 

[TheNEET]

it's simply body dysmorphia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder

 

[thePhantom]

Sure buddy. The feelings of an incel and a tranny are the same. That makes perfect sense. JFL, no it does not.


I would be interested to know what this solution is.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. It is fairly uncontroversial here that surgery is the best solution for those who are incels because of an ugly face. Not sure if you dispute that or if you are just being contrarian for the sake of it at this point.

it's simply body dysmorphia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder

As far as I can tell, there is no parallel drawn between body dysmorphic disorder and gender dysphoria in the medical community though. In particular the pervasive view seems to be that "it is mostly in the head" in the former case (so the treatment is primarily antidepressants), while the physical aspects are taken much more seriously in the latter. This is the point I'm making.

 

[thePhantom]

Now, as in the case of transgenders, apply your surgery solution to genital mutilation. I see no reason to believe that these cases are equivalent in their causes, effects, or following perception by society. Maybe you can enlighten me.

Your assumption that surgery is an appropriate solution to the societal phenomen of males being trated like garbage is quite telling. I am convinced that you do not consider yourself an incel or wish to find a solution to the market value problem.

You seem determined to let your distaste for transsexuals blind you to the similarities. I have already spelled out my hypothesis and its motivation several times. I encourage you to reread post #18 with the dispassionate mind that good science requires. If that does not help, well then I don't think I can "enlighten" you.

I have only been talking about least bad solutions for the individual incel. If you presume to have a solution to the market value problem that an individual incel can unilaterally implement, then by all means tell us.

 

[FlyoverState]

If a man doesn't have sex with sexy women then it's only natural to developgneder dysphoria.