Serious If you are not antinatalist you are either not blackpilled or a normie deep down inside

[SkinnyBaldcel]

Seriously why would anyone, who realizes how cruel this world is (wageslaving, inceldom, diseases) want children? And don't come with that "But I love muh traditional family and children" and "it's in my biological nature" bs, you are not primal apes like foids are, only normies or cucks think about children.
Antinatalism is the only rational decision to end suffering

 

[Deleted member 8353]

To be fair, I can also see incels being nihilists, why the fuck would most here care about normies?

Basically if you're not a negative utilitarian or a nihilist, you're not blackpilled tbh.

 

[SkinnyBaldcel]

To be fair, I can also see incels being nihilists, why the fuck would most here care about normies?

Basically if you're not a negative utilitarian or a nihilist, you're not blackpilled tbh.

Yea I am nihilist too, I see religion as the biggest cope ever invented

"you are not primal apes like foids are"
low iq

Okay and why

 

[Sniffles]

"you are not primal apes like foids are"
low iq

Foids literally don't develop critical thinking skills.

 

[Gengar]

Well tbh this has some merit tbhngl.

 

[Parrtlord]

Well tbh this has some merit tbhngl.

 

[SkinnyBaldcel]

Well tbh this has some merit tbhngl.

I have no idea what merit is lol

 

[Sniffles]

I have no idea what merit is lol

It's like when something has value.
Or credibility.

 

[SkinnyBaldcel]

It's like when something has value.
Or credibility.

oh well.. thank you I guess

 

[Sniffles]

oh well.. thank you I guess

I've got you tbh. Tbh homie. Tbh tbh. I won't even begin to lie

 

[Ritalincel]

> r/antinatalism

 

[Deleted member 8353]

Yea I am nihilist too, I see religion as the biggest cope ever invented

I was referring more to moral nihilism tbh, as existential nihilism is often paired with another system of ethics. Either you care about people or you don't, in the event that you do care however, don't look for solutions with rose colored glasses.

> r/antinatalism
View attachment 89582

Don't remind me of that sub please, I have to watch my words just to stay unbanned from it.

 

[Ritalincel]

Don't remind me of that sub please, I have to watch my words just to stay unbanned from it.

Could be worse... I have to watch my words to stay unbanned from this subleddit

 

[Deleted member 1252]

"you are not primal apes like foids are"
low iq

Foids are the very definition of primal apes.

 

[SkinnyBaldcel]

I was referring more to moral nihilism tbh, as existential nihilism is often paired with another system of ethics. Either you care about people or you don't, in the event that you do care however, don't look for solutions with rose colored glasses.

oh okay well I dont know if I am Moral nihilistic it is more the existential nihilism you mentioned

> r/antinatalism
View attachment 89582

> any r/

 

[ColdLightOfDay]

Yep, as I always say; nationalism and patriotism are the modern expressions of ape-like tribalism. The most primitive cope out there, it’s funny watching people who have nothing to be proud about trying to take pride in something they had no part in building. It’s rather quaint and pretty reminiscent of chimp behaviour in my eyes.

 

[SkinnyBaldcel]

Yep, as I always say; nationalism and patriotism are the modern expressions of ape-like tribalism. The most primitive cope out there, it’s funny watching people who have nothing to be proud about trying to take pride in something they had no part in building. It’s rather quaint and pretty reminiscent of chimp behaviour in my eyes.

Many are scared to not have a life Purpose so they pick out Things like patriotism and try to feel Special, like I Always say life is only a giant cope, Nothing is worth it in the end

 

[Sniffles]

Yep, as I always say; nationalism and patriotism are the modern expressions of ape-like tribalism. The most primitive cope out there, it’s funny watching people who have nothing to be proud about trying to take pride in something they had no part in building. It’s rather quaint and pretty reminiscent of chimp behaviour in my eyes.

That's too much sauce I won't lie.

 

[Sans]

Having children without money or looks is a suicide mission.

 

[mybodyisrotting]

You get to experience good and bad things in life, if you think that the enjoyable experiences that you have are not worth the suffering that you're going through and you don't think that this fact is going to change in the future, you can always just carbon monoxidemaxx your way out.
I like my existence despite being an incel.

 

[SkinnyBaldcel]

You get to experience good and bad things in life, if you think that the enjoyable experiences that you have are not worth the suffering that you're going through and you don't think that this fact is going to change in the future, you can always just carbon monoxidemaxx your way out.
I like my existence despite being an incel.

but why take the Risk then to create potential suffering? No Chance of suffering > potential suffering

 

[Deleted member 15752]

Makes sense ngl

 

[mybodyisrotting]

but why take the Risk then to create potential suffering? No Chance of suffering > potential suffering

likewise, no chance of happiness < potential happiness
experiencing hardship is not inherently bad, as it allows you to enjoy more things

 

[Insomniac]

> r/antinatalism
View attachment 89582

 

[tulasdanslos]

I'm not going to fail at the meaning of life just because some cucks tell me to. If I did fail, at least I would know I did everything in my power and it just wasn't enough to get a foid and kids.

 

[Deleted member 8353]

You get to experience good and bad things in life, if you think that the enjoyable experiences that you have are not worth the suffering that you're going through and you don't think that this fact is going to change in the future, you can always just carbon monoxidemaxx your way out.
I like my existence despite being an incel.

That is to say if you can.

We all like to meme about roping, but how many here will eventually go through with it? Suicide is very difficult even if you actually want to die, the survival instinct is extremely strong thanks to biological inclination and takes a lot of willpower to overcome.

likewise, no chance of happiness < potential happiness
experiencing hardship is not inherently bad, as it allows you to enjoy more things

It allows you to enjoy what exactly? Consider the activities which you find pleasurable, ask yourself why you enjoy them, and what is the impetus that drives you to pursue them?

All pleasure(with the debatable exception of narcotics, I don't subscribe to this but I want to keep this concise) is simply your mind measuring the decrease in negative value relative to the new state of fulfilled desires, and momentarily sated striving. If you were never bored, in pain, tired, sexually frustrated, hungry, etc, you'd never experience "pleasure". As pleasure is the reduction of negative value being perceived as positive, when in fact no positive value was ever created at all.

Pleasure and suffering aren't equal opposites, it's a false dichotomy. Happiness doesn't exist in the same real manner in which pain tangibly does. Therefore, nonexistence is the best possible outcome, you won't feel pain or miss the relief from it. The naturalistic fallacy which most normies possess can't be supported with critical thinking. Just because something is, doesn't mean it ought to be. We can hope for something better than suffering and it's fleeting alleviation.

 

[SkinnyBaldcel]

As pleasure is the reduction of negative value being perceived as positive, when in fact no positive value was ever created at all.

high IQ post, this Quote especially

 

[mybodyisrotting]

Pleasure and suffering aren't equal opposites, it's a false dichotomy. Happiness doesn't exist in the same real manner in which pain tangibly does.

could you elaborate on this? I'm pretty sure that pleasure/happiness is as "real" as pain/suffering, they are all biological mechanisms that keep the machine that is you going

We all like to meme about roping, but how many here will eventually go through with it? Suicide is very difficult even if you actually want to die, the survival instinct is extremely strong thanks to biological inclination and takes a lot of willpower to overcome.

I always imagined it'd be fairly easy to sleep starve yourself, take some pills, seal up the room, turn on a gas stove, open a few dry ice packs and drift off

All pleasure(with the debatable exception of narcotics, I don't subscribe to this but I want to keep this concise) is simply your mind measuring the decrease in negative value relative to the new state of fulfilled desires, and momentarily sated striving. If you were never bored, in pain, tired, sexually frustrated, hungry, etc, you'd never experience "pleasure". As pleasure is the reduction of negative value being perceived as positive, when in fact no positive value was ever created at all.

ngl I'm not sure if the first sentence is poorly written of if I'm just low IQ but it doesn't fully make sense to me, so I'll go with the assumption that it boils down to the same thing as the last sentence.
The negative value is not the baseline as you seem to think, I'm pretty sure that experiencing things like hunger is a "punishment" from the brain, and likewise experiencing satisfaction is the "reward" from the brain.

 

[Mr Joyboy]

The realization is that the world isn't cruel.

 

[Deleted member 8353]

ngl I'm not sure if the first sentence is poorly written of if I'm just low IQ but it doesn't fully make sense to me, so I'll go with the assumption that it boils down to the same thing as the last sentence.
The negative value is not the baseline as you seem to think, I'm pretty sure that experiencing things like hunger is a "punishment" from the brain, and likewise experiencing satisfaction is the "reward" from the brain.

could you elaborate on this? I'm pretty sure that pleasure/happiness is as "real" as pain/suffering, they are all biological mechanisms that keep the machine that is you going

I'm tired, it's difficult to word things in ways that make sense to others like this. What I'm saying is that the satisfaction isn't much of a reward, as it's a return to neutral from before the punishment was imposed. Even if you reject my analysis that pleasure is only a perceptual error mistaking a reduction in suffering as an independent, truly created positive(something that could justify creating life, or continuing it, independent of the need fulfillment mechanism), then it should still be obvious that pain is stronger than pleasure. If you could choose between helping a friend in acute pain, or attempting to entertain a group of your other friends, which would you choose to do, which is more urgent?

To put it simply, burning flesh feels much worse than fapping feels good.

I always imagined it'd be fairly easy to sleep starve yourself, take some pills, seal up the room, turn on a gas stove, open a few dry ice packs and drift off

I feel the same way, I've known for some time that I could kill myself if I really wanted to do so. But believing that everyone else is the same would be a projection.

 

[mybodyisrotting]

I'm tired, it's difficult to word things in ways that make sense to others like this. What I'm saying is that the satisfaction isn't much of a reward, as it's a return to neutral from before the punishment was imposed.

I do reject this, what state do I return to when I gaze upon a beautiful sunset and feel pleasure? Or when I play a satisfying video game, read a good book or when I create something abstract?

Even if you reject my analysis that pleasure is only a perceptual error mistaking a reduction in suffering as an independent, truly created positive, then it should still be obvious that pain is stronger than pleasure. If you could choose between helping a friend in acute pain, or attempting to entertain a group of your other friends, which would you choose to do, which is more urgent?

To put it simply, burning flesh feels much worse than fapping feels good.

I do not think this is a strong argument. If you had the chance to get a girlfriend of your dreams under the condition that you'd have to experience the pain of say, having your nails pulled out (without actual damage to the body) would you go for it?
You can make all sorts of hypothetical scenarios where you'd pick alleviating the "punishment" from the brain over getting a "reward" and vice versa, it's all relative

 

[ColdLightOfDay]

All pleasure(with the debatable exception of narcotics, I don't subscribe to this but I want to keep this concise) is simply your mind measuring the decrease in negative value relative to the new state of fulfilled desires, and momentarily sated striving. If you were never bored, in pain, tired, sexually frustrated, hungry, etc, you'd never experience "pleasure". As pleasure is the reduction of negative value being perceived as positive, when in fact no positive value was ever created at all.

Very well put, Nietzschecel.

 

[Deleted member 8353]

I do reject this, what state do I return to when I gaze upon a beautiful sunset and feel pleasure? Or when I play a satisfying video game, read a good book or when I create something abstract?

You've alleviated your boredom. I know it seems counterintuitive, but you wouldn't enjoy these things if our brains didn't keep us constantly striving for stimulation. Consider solitary confinement, it's torturous for two reasons. First it deprives you of social interaction, given enough time this can cause hallucinations or even a breakdown in the sense of self. Secondly, and most relevant here, it severely limits your capacity for distraction or stimulation. If consciousness was an intrinsically neutral experience, we wouldn't experience the mere state of unoccupied time as torture.

I do not think this is a strong argument. If you had the chance to get a girlfriend of your dreams under the condition that you'd have to experience the pain of say, having your nails pulled out (without actual damage to the body) would you go for it?
You can make all sorts of hypothetical scenarios where you'd pick alleviating the "punishment" from the brain over getting a "reward" and vice versa, it's all relative

I partially agree with this, of course the perception of pain will always be relative to the individual experiencing it. My argument, however, is that the existence and genuine potential of someone experiencing the worst imaginable torture is enough to make procreation completely unjustifiable. As just about everyone sane would agree that they wouldn't experience the worst imaginable pain for the best imaginable pleasure.

I can't even justify the energy cost of my own existence, much less the potential of torture when bringing someone into existence.

Although tbh, if you really don't believe what I'm saying then you might be better off. I felt better before I began these considerations for myself and reached these conclusions.

 

[mybodyisrotting]

You've alleviated your boredom

I don't buy this. You can enjoy all of the things that I have mentioned while not in a state of being bored. Just like you can enjoy eating far more food than your body would ever need or whatever.

If consciousness was an intrinsically neutral experience, we wouldn't experience the mere state of unoccupied time as torture.

I think the fact that we consider extreme boredom as torture is related to what becomes "the norm" over the course of our lives. In order to test whether consciousness is intrinsically neutral, we'd have to make an experiment where a child is created with all of its senses cut off, keep the body in a constant neutral/sated state and measure the brain in order to check whether it feels tortured or not.

I partially agree with this, of course the perception of pain will always be relative to the individual experiencing it. My argument, however, is that the existence and genuine potential of someone experiencing the worst imaginable torture is enough to make procreation completely unjustifiable. As just about everyone sane would agree that they wouldn't experience the worst imaginable pain for the best imaginable pleasure.

I can't even justify the energy cost of my own existence, much less the potential of torture when bringing someone into existence.

I wonder what a person with congenital analgesia would say to that
What you've said is food for thought, I haven't really considered those matters too deeply. We as humans are typically well equipped to avoid suffering and die if it becomes too unbearable. I guess I just value realistic probability over hypothetical capability.

 

[Deleted member 8353]

I don't buy this. You can enjoy all of the things that I have mentioned without being bored. Just like you can enjoy eating far more food than your body would ever need or whatever.

I can only measure pleasure through my own perceptions, remember that it's possible that I could have a neurological problem, I don't discount that. Tbh I don't really enjoy anything, at least not in any manner that goes beyond distracting myself.

I think the fact that we consider extreme boredom as torture is related to what becomes "the norm" over the course of our lives. In order to test whether consciousness is intrinsically neutral, we'd have to make an experiment where a child is created with all of its senses cut off, keep the body in a constant neutral/sated state and measure the brain in order to check whether it feels tortured or not.

Entirely possible, unmet expectations are a source of suffering. It could be that counting the indentations upon a wall could be a genuine form of meditative pleasure for someone who hasn't experienced anything more stimulating.

 

[mybodyisrotting]

I can only measure pleasure through my own perceptions, remember that it's possible that I could have a neurological problem, I don't discount that. Tbh I don't really enjoy anything, at least not in any manner that goes beyond distracting myself.

Did you go to a doctor? He may give your some SSRIs or whatever, in that kind of state it might be worth trying out even if it means addiction, at least in my opinion

 

[Cuyen]

I do understand your point but idgaf tbh I would legit make tons of children if I had chance.

 

[Adûnâi]

"If I were not Alexander, I would be Diogenes" - Alexander (like Uncle Adolf's, my (middle school!) history teacher was glorious).

Yes, you are right. If you think with your head, you understand that there are only two ways - one to death, the other to life.

If you don't suicide, then you choose life. And choosing life means a proper pro-life ideology. I.e., social-darwinism. A religion that puts not a Jewish god, not human rights, but the survival of your genes in the centre of your axiology.

I suggest checking out Chechar's blog, he's pretty alright.

 

[GeneSelector]

Oh. I think humanity, and in particular the white race, is worth perserving taking all our amazing accomplishments, not just when it comes to technology, but also when it comes to art, music, maths, philosophy and whatever else have you into consideration. Sure, most people and indeed some races are shit and probably shouldn't be reproducing, but those that drive society and all our accomplishments forward most definitely should reproduce in my opinion. All in all, I want humanity to strive toward ever higher states of consciousness and indeed toward godhood itself, irrespective of how much "pain" is inflicted upon those unwilling or simply unable to pursue said goal.

 

[Michael15651]

Don't spread the genes.