W
W
If you look at the 4 provinces along the sea between Crimea and Russia, that Russia seems to be doing well in..
Luhansk: 2,104,000
Donetsk: 4,062,000 (largest province in population in Ukraine)
Zaporizhia: 1,640,000
Kherson: 1,002,000
Sum: 8,808,000
Crimea: 1,963,000
Sevastopol: 509,000 (city separate authority within the Crimean peninsula)
Sum: 2,472,000
Luhansk: 2,104,000
Donetsk: 4,062,000 (largest province in population in Ukraine)
Zaporizhia: 1,640,000
Kherson: 1,002,000
Sum: 8,808,000
Crimea: 1,963,000
Sevastopol: 509,000 (city separate authority within the Crimean peninsula)
Sum: 2,472,000
Interesting stats and maps, it displays everything for us nicely. But..
Where do you think this is all going ? I know we were discussing it before in pieces, but I don't know, for some reason the flattened out, protracted bullshit news media influenced war is becoming a bit, annoying, for lack of better words.
W
Long run the USA is just going to take Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia & Armenia. Then remake those countries in America's own image and be integrating them to the Empire which is a 30+ year process. Then be changing the beliefs and mentality of the peoples there from feudalism to the new order which is like a 100+ year process.
When i thought about it I asked myself how is Russia going to stop it when America gets behind proxies with American technology and endless money... my answer is Russia can't stop it.
Even if somehow Russia stopped America now, the USA technology is going to be that much more advanced in 30 years and America with that much more money, so the US will just be back again.
Thats why I don't know why Russia is fighting. They should have kept working on reforming Russia and let the US Empire deal with the feudal state in Ukraine, which it will take quite a while like decades to remake and reform Ukraine.
For my stock investing I got reinforced a bunch of ideas about patience reading about this whole thing.
I hope a nuclear war breaks out
Honestly same, trucel trait
@Uggo Mongo @shii410 thoughts on NovoRussia 
It will never rise againInteresting
How do you think @shii410 will respond to this
Interesting
How do you think @shii410 will respond to this
It will never rise again
Honestly, I'm not sure if I follow you the way you're saying it...
First of all, There is not enough strength in the West to form any sort of unified approach like this. The West doesn't agree with itself on anything. The one thing I could see is that wokeness prevails and everyone is remade in that image, but if the right wing revolts then the economic damage and social damage will be considerably large. In that scenario the dollar loses value or perhaps the States break up and the United States becomes different territories ruled in effect by corruption and a sort of "gangster law". Maybe that could work hand in hand with eastern Europe but it's just hard to say. Unless you have a different way of explaining it I'm just not understanding how the U.S. "will be back again". Let's discuss it more?
W
What I mean by the US image is think about what America did in Western Europe, how it remade those countries in America's own image, as the Soviet Union remade the Eastern Block countries it conquered in the Soviet Union's own image.
Now the Northwest European states they were already close to the US image so not much changed. But to take Italy is I think the best example.
Italy was the classic feudal state. Where through a hereditary aristocracy and corrupt government officials they stole money from the people and kept the people impoverished to serve their own egos. They did this by a system of control of land and licenses for production. The feudal lords owned all the licenses, permits, quotas, royal allotments for production.
And in feudalism the amount of production is kept well below the demand. The intent of this is to create monopolist profits for the owners of the licenses. And it serves another purpose is that it keeps the people impoverished and it prevents capitalists from emerging who could rival the feudal elite in wealth. As the capitalists can't get started if they can't get the licenses to be allowed to produce.
So for centuries Italy remained poor and a class society, not a lot changing from century to century. The feudal owners also own most of the land in that system, so the people are but renters and workers. This is how most of the world still is today.
So America said openly at the time what it intended to do in Italy. Once the US took Italy by force of arms, the US got control of the government of Italy. Then the US just scrapped all the licenses, permits, quotas, and also the restrictions on land development. So then Italy had this colossal economic boom once the brakes were taken off, all the way from 1945 to the mid-1990's where Italy briefly caught up to America in per capita GDP.
The US intentionally made it so that most Italians became home owners instead of renters. And while Italians mainly still were workers they also were free to start businesses. Then businesses had to compete for workers. In this industrial development the best capitalists emerge with these huge industrial enterprises. But in a free market if those industrial enterprises go downhill, then they get replaced by upstarts and rivals.
Today Italy with ~60 million people has a larger economy than Russia with ~145 million people, despite Russia also being the worlds largest resources producer.
So I see it that there is this new model, or new world order America is talking about of industrial capitalism. Then there is the old world order of feudalism. Communism was better messaging but it was another form of feudalism, it was a strict hierarchy with some big shots on top ruling over everybody and ordering them around, still no freedom to start businesses, still no free market, still need approval from your betters to say move to a different city, like a serf. And the big shots controlled the state which has the guns.
When the Soviet Union came down in 1991, Ukraine had a chance to jump into the New World Order while also being an independent country.. but problem for them is everybody there is still in the mindset of feudalism.
So all the men formed mafia, political parties, factions in the government, ethnic nationalism, and they all wanted to be the next feudal lords. So they fought it out and eventually one group came to power. And they did their thing using force to steal from their own people all the wealth and getting super rich themselves. Then feudalism is unstable because rivals always want to become the feudal lords, so the next group of guys got in. And they stole the wealth and got super rich themselves.
But in feudalism little wealth is produced. Because the people soon learn any wealth they create will just be stolen. And Ukraine doesn't have that much resources so it was just shit poor and hopeless. At least Russia could buy people off with the resource money. Ukraine couldn't even run a modern government because the tax base was too low, and every government official was just corrupt.
In the past before America showed up in Europe.. it was one gang of thugs against another gang of thugs. So in that light Russia being so big and resource rich, it was among the biggest thugs.
But now America is something alien to them. Like America comes out with more advanced technology that the old technology can't stop. And America has near limitless money compared to the old order.
And America is sinister. America knows in each feudal place there is the guys like ethnic groups which are beat down, and want to become the feudal lords themselves. So America looked in the ex-Soviet Union and there is the 1st place guys Russians who are the big lords and like having everyone sucking up and bowing down to them. Then there is the 2nd place guys the Ukrainians who are mad as hell about it.
So the USA just got behind the Ukrainians giving them some money and off the shelf man portable Western military technology. Then the Ukrainians stood up to the Russians and the Russians went apeshit with rage.
Russia launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine which is just what the US wants. Because America isn't going to kill all the fighting men of the ex-Soviet Union.. America is going to get them to kill each other.
Slavs could put aside their old ideas feudalism, and stop trying to use force to bully each other, and work together to make a better world.. ya not going to happen they all went for their guns and started killing other Slavs.
Now America just gives enough weapons so that it is a tie and the war goes on until all the violent men are dead.
That's more bite than USA could chew
I agree. The U.S. is a weak corpse of its former self. Nobody in the US is even coordinated enough to have such ambitious plans.
@WizardofSoda - will read and reply in more detail soon.
And btw the way @WizardofSoda
Have you see the NYT recent poll. This guys are saying that the entire anti-russia campaign by America leftist has had the opposite effect and more than 80% of Russians approve of Putin and support the war effort.
So the likelihood of the pro-west Ukraine surviving in any recognised form is shrinking. I think eventually it will be a desolate waste land in the eastern and southern border regions and then a weakly supported Khiv with Poland and Germany helping the U.S. to fund gorilla attacks against Russian strong holds.
Basically my thinking is, this entire war seems manufactured to replace Covid in the News cycle and allow the economy to heal a little bit. However, what's more will probably likely is a shitty economy and issues to come.
www.nytimes.com
Have you see the NYT recent poll. This guys are saying that the entire anti-russia campaign by America leftist has had the opposite effect and more than 80% of Russians approve of Putin and support the war effort.
So the likelihood of the pro-west Ukraine surviving in any recognised form is shrinking. I think eventually it will be a desolate waste land in the eastern and southern border regions and then a weakly supported Khiv with Poland and Germany helping the U.S. to fund gorilla attacks against Russian strong holds.
Basically my thinking is, this entire war seems manufactured to replace Covid in the News cycle and allow the economy to heal a little bit. However, what's more will probably likely is a shitty economy and issues to come.
Faced with foreign pressure, Russians rally around Putin, poll shows. (Published 2022)
Eighty-three percent of Russians said they approved of Mr. Putin’s actions, up from 69 percent in January, according to an independent pollster in Moscow.
It will never rise again
It will never rise again
W
And btw the way @WizardofSoda
Have you see the NYT recent poll. This guys are saying that the entire anti-russia campaign by America leftist has had the opposite effect and more than 80% of Russians approve of Putin and support the war effort.
So the likelihood of the pro-west Ukraine surviving in any recognised form is shrinking. I think eventually it will be a desolate waste land in the eastern and southern border regions and then a weakly supported Khiv with Poland and Germany helping the U.S. to fund gorilla attacks against Russian strong holds.
Basically my thinking is, this entire war seems manufactured to replace Covid in the News cycle and allow the economy to heal a little bit. However, what's more will probably likely is a shitty economy and issues to come.
Faced with foreign pressure, Russians rally around Putin, poll shows. (Published 2022)
Eighty-three percent of Russians said they approved of Mr. Putin’s actions, up from 69 percent in January, according to an independent pollster in Moscow.
Ya they needed something to get off of Covid in the media. That leftist cancel culture campaign of Russians and Russian cultural things was criminally stupid. I was arguing from day 1 it was a bad idea.. I think the powers that be have managed to stop that in the US now, but I read some European countries are still doing it like stopping Russians at the border.
The Empire is ok with the women and children and some others fleeing Ukraine, because they are fleeing to elsewhere in the Empire.
After the war there is going to be the rebuilding of Ukraine. It will be some enormous number like $2 trillion over 20 years. That is where they will begin repopulation Ukraine with other Europeans, returning Ukrainians and mass immigration.
This depopulation issue is a very big issue in Ukraine and Europe in general. For example since 1990 Ukraine went from 51 million to 41 million people. Since then they lost 7.5 million from births minus deaths, and 2.3 million from net immigration losses.
Now they are down another 4 million who have left since the war started.
If you look at Germany since 1990 they lost 4 million from births minus deaths, but the empire more than made up for it with 7.8 million net immigrants since then. Probably mainly other Europeans going there.
As long as Israel gets nuked.
+1
Also @WizardofSoda thanks for the essays. I do not have much to add but it's nice to see someone giving thought to this instead of the same, surface level "hecking wholesome Marvel hero Zelensky is fighting against Putin who is literally Thanos" soy reading of geopolitics I see everywhere on the soycial media.
(source: liveuamap)
They will also surrender that territory in the south by the time this is over unless they opt for a permanent military occupation
They just need to kick out the uppity troublemakers, no worries.This cannot be
@Uggo Mongo he wants to deny the birth of NovoRussia
Sounds like I'll be able to rest without losing sleepThey just need to kick out the uppity troublemakers, no worries.
Now if we can only get that pesky @incelerated to become a bonafide warriors fan
Now if we can only get that pesky @incelerated to become a bonafide warriors fan
I understand it's a basketball team. I don't watch basketball, but I hope they become champions.
Yes most excellent
dont forget to purchase your goldenstate warriors apparels so that the system can register you as a " genuine" supporter, goyim
W
NATO a few days ago approved sending in some bigger weapons systems.
The Russians have a strong system once they get set up across a broad sweeping area where the Ukrainians can't easily sneak in from somewhere and shoot at the supply convoys.
Then the Russians have their infantry and light vehicles up in houses and buildings and holding positions. Then way back they have their tanks and mobile artillery, then further back their big artillery. And then they can have trucks delivering ammo to the artillery and supplies without getting hit as there is a huge arc they control.
The Ukrainians don't have many drones or an airforce to go and take out many of the various types of artillery that is way back like 5+ miles behind where their infantry are. the Russians also have their air defense systems in this area they control. Granted the Russians can't move up very fast while holding this set up, and anytime their army is moving forward that is where they are going to take heavy losses and where it takes time to get set up. But it doesn't take them that long to blast down cities with all the artillery.
The Ukrainians then use their artillery and rocket trucks to hit at positions where the Russian infantry is up front. The Russians also have some of their own drones, and the Russian airforce is still there doing strikes on these Ukrainian artillery of various types and rocket trucks. And also against the Ukrainian air defenses that are trying to defend against these Russian air attacks.
What the Ukrainians are trying to get now is more and bigger drones and cruise missiles so they can hit the Russian artillery positions that are way back there or supply lines, supply depots. And the Ukrainians want more and bigger Western air defense systems to stop the Russians from taking out their artillery and rocket trucks.
Because with this system although the Russians they can dig in really well, and they can move forward slowly.
For Russia taking all of Ukraine is they didn't have a big enough army, like huge numbers of infantry and all the logistics for that to use this system around the whole of Ukraine and move forward slowly that way. Also it wouldn't have been that great an idea because it would mean obliterating Kiev, Chernihiv, Sumy and Kharkiv to move forward slowly artillery down everything.
I think the Russian strategy was hope that Ukraine falls easily with their initial attack everywhere as they closed in from all around Ukraine. But if not it allowed their big advance in NovoRussia as the Ukrainians had to defend everywhere.
The Russians have a strong system once they get set up across a broad sweeping area where the Ukrainians can't easily sneak in from somewhere and shoot at the supply convoys.
Then the Russians have their infantry and light vehicles up in houses and buildings and holding positions. Then way back they have their tanks and mobile artillery, then further back their big artillery. And then they can have trucks delivering ammo to the artillery and supplies without getting hit as there is a huge arc they control.
The Ukrainians don't have many drones or an airforce to go and take out many of the various types of artillery that is way back like 5+ miles behind where their infantry are. the Russians also have their air defense systems in this area they control. Granted the Russians can't move up very fast while holding this set up, and anytime their army is moving forward that is where they are going to take heavy losses and where it takes time to get set up. But it doesn't take them that long to blast down cities with all the artillery.
The Ukrainians then use their artillery and rocket trucks to hit at positions where the Russian infantry is up front. The Russians also have some of their own drones, and the Russian airforce is still there doing strikes on these Ukrainian artillery of various types and rocket trucks. And also against the Ukrainian air defenses that are trying to defend against these Russian air attacks.
What the Ukrainians are trying to get now is more and bigger drones and cruise missiles so they can hit the Russian artillery positions that are way back there or supply lines, supply depots. And the Ukrainians want more and bigger Western air defense systems to stop the Russians from taking out their artillery and rocket trucks.
Because with this system although the Russians they can dig in really well, and they can move forward slowly.
For Russia taking all of Ukraine is they didn't have a big enough army, like huge numbers of infantry and all the logistics for that to use this system around the whole of Ukraine and move forward slowly that way. Also it wouldn't have been that great an idea because it would mean obliterating Kiev, Chernihiv, Sumy and Kharkiv to move forward slowly artillery down everything.
I think the Russian strategy was hope that Ukraine falls easily with their initial attack everywhere as they closed in from all around Ukraine. But if not it allowed their big advance in NovoRussia as the Ukrainians had to defend everywhere.
dont forget to purchase your goldenstate warriors apparels so that the system can register you as a " genuine" supporter, goyim
View attachment 597467
W
What Russia really needed was first off a bigger army. But secondly China to get behind Russia with drones, jamming, command and control stuff with computers and communications equipment.
But China didn't seem to agree with the full scale invasion of Ukraine. And China might not want to use its military technology there as then others could see how it works.
What I could see China doing though is backing Russia financially. Like China can lend Russia $100's of billions of USD equivalent if China wants, and no one can really even know the amounts. Eg.. by the central bank and interbank transfers to balance trade and capital movement between Russia and China. China can also supply components that Russia needs.
Problem I saw for Russia is that while turning to China does help Russia a great deal in resisting the West.. then Russia gives up some amount of sovereignty to China. China isn't going to just give that support with no strings attached.
But China didn't seem to agree with the full scale invasion of Ukraine. And China might not want to use its military technology there as then others could see how it works.
What I could see China doing though is backing Russia financially. Like China can lend Russia $100's of billions of USD equivalent if China wants, and no one can really even know the amounts. Eg.. by the central bank and interbank transfers to balance trade and capital movement between Russia and China. China can also supply components that Russia needs.
Problem I saw for Russia is that while turning to China does help Russia a great deal in resisting the West.. then Russia gives up some amount of sovereignty to China. China isn't going to just give that support with no strings attached.
Who do you mean when you say "The Empire"
And, I can't find where I asked the question before, so I'll ask it again here.
You seem to feel the West (America specifically) is strong and coordinated enough to "remake Russia" in its image. I again have no clue how you can come to this conclusion. Remake Russia under its current Leftist pro-cuck and SWJ type of masturbation? Or do you mean something else?
America is weak and uncoordinated at the present moment. Nobody knows who is behind what effort and how it will play out. The domestic politics is just dragging itself forward like a crippled child, blind in one eye. Do you think that Kamala Harris will take the mantle of cuckoldry and then woke'afy Eastern Europe with the help of Zelensky Chads? I could see something like that happening now that there is Hunter Biden being questioned by even CNN and NYT. Maybe Biden steps down? Meanwhile the red headed sharp tounged ginger cunt Psaki is stepping down to join MSNBC to be a full fledged spin artist media whore. It's quite confusing to know what's really happening behind the power curtain in the U.S.
Militarily I also happen to think the U.S. is weak if and when it came to a real war with a big player. With all the wokeness and SJW shit in the ranks, I'd be surprised if they could even co-operate to fend off an attack by China or Russia without major loss of resources and life.
Novorossiyamaxxing is going to be the new standard within Rodgerism stream. BA-SED!
W
I mean in the political and economic organization of the countries. So in 1989 Poland was a Communist country. But now 30 years later it is looking closer to the US and West European countries. And 30 more years and Poland will be thought of like a standard West European country.
This model is the same everywhere the US takes over. So in 1945 the US got control of the Japanese Empire, the main part of which was Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. And how South Korea and Taiwan wouldn't look that different than they are in political and economic organization if they were in Western Europe.
After WWII with the Japanese Empire and in Western Europe, the US just used out and out military force and more or less forcibly reforming these countries. Because at the end of the war the US had a huge army, and other countries like West Germany their army was defeated.
But now the US & the other Empire countries usually they don't use force like that or as you said even have big armies. They do it gradually through free trade agreements, and loans, investments, grants, in Europe regulatory integration. That a country like Poland has to gradually make all these reforms to keep qualifying for more money, and to get to the next level in multi-national organizations.
Its like Ukraine imo the US army would be lucky to take as much of Ukraine as Russia if the US tried to conquer it and the Ukrainians were really against it. Good examples are Iraq and Afghanistan.
This graph is the heart of the crisis in Ukraine.
View attachment yoCd8QYPB1LGXedyQgzcx_-WquQG2EkzinRIgS6FxvI (1).webp
Ukraine shares a big border with Poland, and culturally they are very connected Western Ukraine and Poland, like inter-marriages, families on both sides of the border. Its pretty close to the same people on this vast plain doing farming, they even both were in Communism as friends.
The graph looks nearly identical for Slovakia, Hungary & Romania, other countries border Western Ukraine. The Ukrainians also looked and there is no civil wars in NATO. But on the other hand governments like the Ukraine government don't like the idea of handing over large parts of their sovereignty.
But a national consensus formed where Ukraine made the decision they wanted to join the EU/NATO. That is why the Russians then had to either accept it or attack.
Yes agreed, mostly. But the fact one must look at now, is that we may have a situation where remaking the country using channels of trade and investment, business expansion etc, might be over. I don't know but the U.S. is struggling too much on its own to really have it's law makers get behind long term "remaking". This is going to be a terrible thing in the long run if it doesn't work exactly the way they think it will. And I'm not so confident they know what they are doing. The trust is just not there.
The problem is that the history lends itself to time when the U.S.was, I feel, was significantly more coordinated than it is now days. One of the problems with cultural decay is a general depreciation across all areas. Ukraine joining EU/NATO might be a motivation for Russia and one of the last straws, but Europe and the U.S. DO have the ability to truely stop it, yet they are worried about creating a no-fly zone because it would involve engaging in a real war with Russia. So their trying the route you mentioned above. But problem is, this time around, that too may fail. That's a telling sign, maybe they know they can't pull off a war with the sorry state the economy is in. I don't know. Contrarily if their plan was to use the war to stimulate growth back at home, they haven't gone full tilt in that direction either. What gives? The sanctions are just starting to have an effect, but rather slowly.
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