I think I can say that I have the longest midface

[Octopusgun2]

100% srs. I have a midface longer than anyone here and i’m having a hard time trying to swallow the truth that a compact midface would suit me. Not even FACEandLMS who always complains about having a long midface has one that’s as long as mine...Just lol @ my subhumanity.

 

[Kointo1]

 

OVER

 

[sorrowfulsad]

What is your FWHR op?

 

[Octopusgun2]

What is your FWHR op?

Around 1.55-1.60 kek. It really is over for me.

 

[itsOVER]

You're measuring midface wrong. It should be from eyebrows--->bottom of nose. Not to the top of your lip.

Also, what's the ideal FWHR anyway?

 

[sorrowfulsad]

You're measuring midface wrong. It should be from eyebrows--->bottom of nose. Not to the top of your lip.

Also, what's the ideal FWHR anyway?

I'd say 1.9 like Brad Pitt has

 

[Octopusgun2]

I envy your eye area

Ty but I would trade it for a more compact midface any day.

 

[Ryo_Hazuki]

Mine is about the length of yours from what I can tell, OP.

But @justforlulzandkeks claims to have a fHWR of 1.38 which would be even worse than ours, assuming he's serious and measured correctly.

 

[itsOVER]

Oh God another thing I have to be concerned about now. Am I measuring this right? Done it using paint because I'm shit with a ruler.


[attachment=799]

Apparently I'm 1.67, assuming I've done it all correctly (have I?). Is that over tier or not boyos?

EDIT: full picture here. Can someone check I've drawn the box right?: https://ibb.co/hYzJhG

 

[Deleted member 306]

Oh God another thing I have to be concerned about now. Am I measuring this right? Done it using paint because I'm shit with a ruler.




Apparently I'm 1.67, assuming I've done it all correctly (have I?). Is that over tier or not boyos?

Anything below 1.85 is over

 

[itsOVER]

Anything below 1.85 is over

Guess it's time for the rope then.

 

[Deleted member 306]

Guess it's time for the rope then.

Yep.

 

[Octopusgun2]

Oh God another thing I have to be concerned about now. Am I measuring this right? Done it using paint because I'm shit with a ruler.
[attachment=799]
Apparently I'm 1.67, assuming I've done it all correctly (have I?). Is that over tier or not boyos?
EDIT: full picture here. Can someone check I've drawn the box right?: https://ibb.co/hYzJhG

Your midface isn’t long nor compact, it’s average. Also, my fHWR is similar to yours, it’s in the 65-50 range.

 

[justforlulzandkeks]

Mine is about the length of yours from what I can tell, OP.

But @justforlulzandkeks claims to have a fHWR of 1.38 which would be even worse than ours, assuming he's serious and measured correctly.

I can PM you a cropped/censored image of my skull if you promise you won't share it

 

[CopingGymcel]

 

OVER

100% over.

 

[Octopusgun2]

Ty but I would trade it for a more compact midface any day.

Pietro Boselli has a long midface yet still is a Chad.
Not to mention Orb did as well

I meeeaaann...I’ll get surgery to fix my subhuman lower third, nose and browridge and we’ll see if I ascend.

 

[Ryo_Hazuki]

I can PM you a cropped/censored image of my skull if you promise you won't share it

Don't worry, I won't share it.

 

[itsOVER]

Your midface isn’t long nor compact, it’s average. Also, my fHWR is similar to yours, it’s in the 65-50 range.

So is it FWHR that matters, or the length of the midface relative to upper and lower third?

What's an acceptable FWHR anyway? Gambler said it's over at 1.85 or less (but he always says it's over), and you seem pretty unhappy about 1.55-1.6.

I've also figured the 'ratio' seems to vary a bit depending on which picture I check in paint. Like, some can be at 1.7, others are near 1.6.

 

[Octopusgun2]

Your midface isn’t long nor compact, it’s average. Also, my fHWR is similar to yours, it’s in the 65-50 range.

So is it FWHR that matters, or the length of the midface relative to upper and lower third?
What's an acceptable FWHR anyway? Gambler said it's over at 1.85 or less (but he always says it's over), and you seem pretty unhappy about 1.55-1.6.
I've also figured the 'ratio' seems to vary a bit depending on which picture I check in paint. Like, some can be at 1.7, others are near 1.6.

Your fHWR is surely not that bad, but having a compact midface is far, far more important than having a high fHWR.

 

[itsOVER]

Your fHWR is surely not that bad, but having a compact midface is far, far more important than having a high fHWR.

I see, so it's more a case of no compact midface = it's over?

Begs the question what use is the FWHR then if it's all about midface measurements relative to the upper and lower third?

 

[Octopusgun2]

Your fHWR is surely not that bad, but having a compact midface is far, far more important than having a high fHWR.

I see, so it's more a case of no compact midface = it's over?
Begs the question what use is the FWHR then if it's all about midface measurements relative to the upper and lower third?

fHWR has to do with the focal length of the face. Here’s an example :

Same guy, different fHWR. The guy has the highest fHWR on the far left pic and the lowest on the far right pic. His midface length didn’t change, but his comically low fHWR made it look longer.

 

[itsOVER]

fHWR has to do with the focal length of the face. Here’s an example :

Same guy, different fHWR. The guy has the highest fHWR on the far left pic and the lowest on the far right pic. His midface length didn’t change, but his comically low fHWR made it look longer.

Right, I see. So basically if you have an average FWHR that's probably fine and won't make the midface look long?

At least that's SOMETHING in my favour I guess. Now if only there was a way to fix my mass storage of facial fat despite being 55kg, my non-existant jawline, lack of slayer eyes, general garbage eye area, my oversized nose and my norwooding hair....

I'm sure even with your midface issues, you can't have it so bad. Your eye area looked top tier anyway. I doubt midface and midface alone is gonna kill you, it's more a general lack of decent features that does...you can get away with one area being sub par.

 

[Octopusgun2]

fHWR has to do with the focal length of the face. Here’s an example :

Same guy, different fHWR. The guy has the highest fHWR on the far left pic and the lowest on the far right pic. His midface length didn’t change, but his comically low fHWR made it look longer.

Right, I see. So basically if you have an average FWHR that's probably fine and won't make the midface look long?
At least that's SOMETHING in my favour I guess. Now if only there was a way to fix my mass storage of facial fat despite being 55kg, my non-existant jawline, lack of slayer eyes, general garbage eye area, my oversized nose and my norwooding hair....
I'm sure even with your midface issues, you can't have it so bad. Your eye area looked top tier anyway.

You can fix your eye area to some extent by getting upperlid fillers. You have an average midface which is IMO a huge avantage and is better than having hunter eyes. Your flaws are easily fixable through surgery...While i’m stuck with my midface that’ll get even longer.

 

[itsOVER]

You can fix your eye area to some extent by getting upperlid fillers. You have an average midface which is IMO a huge avantage and is better than having hunter eyes. Your flaws are easily fixable through surgery...While i’m stuck with my midface that’ll get even longer.

Nah, the facial fat thing is genetic (seriously if I lost much more weight I'd be classed as anorexic, yet still look really fat in my face), and it'll always prevent me having that 'chiseled' look which you need to actually look good. And eye area is one of the hardest areas to improve through surgery - yet is the most important to your looks (which is why your top tier eye area is a big deal).

And the other problem with surgery is the cost. We'd be talking $15,000 for wrap around jaw implants (desperately needed as I have no jawline now), probably $6,000 for nose, another $5,000 for eyes likely and I'd need cheek implants for $5,000 more too. That's $31,000 just to get to 'average normie' level. Whereas you might already be at that level because of your eye area.

Anyway, don't wanna try and make this into the misery Olympics. But your eye area was really good - probably the best I've seen so far on this site. If your long midface is your ONLY bad feature you've probably still got a chance.

 

[Octopusgun2]

You can fix your eye area to some extent by getting upperlid fillers. You have an average midface which is IMO a huge avantage and is better than having hunter eyes. Your flaws are easily fixable through surgery...While i’m stuck with my midface that’ll get even longer.

Nah, the facial fat thing is genetic (seriously if I lost much more weight I'd be classed as anorexic, yet still look really fat in my face), and it'll always prevent me having that 'chiseled' look which you need to actually look good. And eye area is one of the hardest areas to improve through surgery - yet is the most important to your looks (which is why your top tier eye area is a big deal).
And the other problem with surgery is the cost. We'd be talking $15,000 for wrap around jaw implants (desperately needed as I have no jawline now), probably $6,000 for nose, another $5,000 for eyes likely and I'd need cheek implants for $5,000 more too. That's $31,000 just to get to 'average normie' level. Whereas you might already be at that level because of your eye area.
Anyway, don't wanna try and make this into the misery Olympics. But your eye area was really good - probably the best I've seen so far on this site. If your long midface is your ONLY bad feature you've probably still got a chance.

Thanks, this gives me hope. You seriously can ascend through surgery, fillers for eye area can sometimes be only about 500-1k$, jaw implants cost only 4k$ or 5k$, rhino is also 4k$. If I were you i’d have gotten surgery a long time ago as you’re older and you travel around and seem to be supporting yourself much better. I unfortunately am still young and have to wait till I graduate from college so I can get my surgeries...My dad will be funding for my rhinoplasty which is a good thing as I won’t have to save up for it.

 

[itsOVER]

Thanks, this gives me hope. You seriously can ascend through surgery, fillers for eye area can sometimes be only about 500-1k$, jaw implants cost only 4k$ or 5k$, rhino is also 4k$. If I were you i’d have gotten surgery a long time ago as you’re older and you travel around and seem to be supporting yourself much better. I unfortunately am still young and have to wait till I graduate from college so I can get my surgeries...My dad will be funding for my rhinoplasty which is a good thing as I won’t have to save up for it.

I'd need jaw + chin...unfortunately I'm a UKcel and pretty much no one does jaw surgery here, seems to be more popular in America which involves travel + higher American medical prices. I'll look into fillers for eye area but tbh not sure what it is I'd need there (i.e. I know it looks shit, but I don't really know why, nor how to fix it).

As for why I didn't do it before - in college I had no money (plus was a bluepilled normie who believed it was all about my low kunfidence, lololol), and pretty soon after college I went to Thailand where being white was enough to get laid, so of course there was no need for any surgery + I made fuck all in terms of money anyway. Now I'm in the UK and pretty much survive off the government loans for my college course, dunno where you got the idea I was financially stable lol. Never been rich at all unfortunately.

My choice now is: after I graduate in July, I could go work in a shit country with little hope of getting laid, but probably be able to save $25k or so for my surgeries in that year. Or I could just bolt back to an easy country to get laid in (like Vietnam or Thailand), but the salaries are shit and my surgeries will take waaaay longer (like, 5 years to get everything done). It's a tough choice cos I'm kinda an oldcel now as it is and REALLY don't wanna waste another year in some crap country just to earn money, though moving from my current PSL 4 to a PSL 5 would help, even in SEA it'd help gain you access to the best Stacies rather than just nailing 5s-7s.

I'd consider it over in the west for me anyway though, since I think even being a PSL 5 is essentially worthless there (true humanity starts at PSL 6). Plus I'm 5ft 7 manlet so if I stayed here I'd need another $30,000 or so for leg lengthening surgery to get me in the game and even then I'd still have all the cards stacked against me.

Getting a hair transplant though in March since that's a top priority area that seriously needs a fix IMMEDIATELY - and doesn't cost much either.

 

[Octopusgun2]

Thanks, this gives me hope. You seriously can ascend through surgery, fillers for eye area can sometimes be only about 500-1k$, jaw implants cost only 4k$ or 5k$, rhino is also 4k$. If I were you i’d have gotten surgery a long time ago as you’re older and you travel around and seem to be supporting yourself much better. I unfortunately am still young and have to wait till I graduate from college so I can get my surgeries...My dad will be funding for my rhinoplasty which is a good thing as I won’t have to save up for it.

I'd need jaw + chin...unfortunately I'm a UKcel and pretty much no one does jaw surgery here, seems to be more popular in America which involves travel + higher American medical prices. I'll look into fillers for eye area but tbh not sure what it is I'd need there (i.e. I know it looks shit, but I don't really know why, nor how to fix it).
As for why I didn't do it before - in college I had no money (plus was a bluepilled normie who believed it was all about my low kunfidence, lololol), and pretty soon after college I went to Thailand where being white was enough to get laid, so of course there was no need for any surgery + I made fuck all in terms of money anyway. Now I'm in the UK and pretty much survive off the government loans for my college course, dunno where you got the idea I was financially stable lol. Never been rich at all unfortunately.
My choice now is: after I graduate in July, I could go work in a shit country with little hope of getting laid, but probably be able to save $25k or so for my surgeries in that year. Or I could just bolt back to an easy country to get laid in (like Vietnam or Thailand), but the salaries are shit and my surgeries will take waaaay longer (like, 5 years to get everything done). It's a tough choice cos I'm kinda an oldcel now as it is and REALLY don't wanna waste another year in some crap country just to earn money, though moving from my current PSL 4 to a PSL 5 would help, even in SEA it'd help gain you access to the best Stacies rather than just nailing 5s-7s.
I'd consider it over in the west for me anyway though, since I think even being a PSL 5 is essentially worthless there (true humanity starts at PSL 6). Plus I'm 5ft 7 manlet so if I stayed here I'd need another $30,000 or so for leg lengthening surgery to get me in the game and even then I'd still have all the cards stacked against me.
Getting a hair transplant though in March since that's a top priority area that seriously needs a fix IMMEDIATELY - and doesn't cost much either.

For fillers, you need upperlid fillers. They can only be done in the US though, never seen one done on other countries. There’s also a forum full of well learned surgeons who know about PSLI and ideal DOM features such as “hunter eyes”, you can go there and show them pics of your eye area and tell them that you want to get hunter eyes and they’ll suggest to you what to get and the rest will be on you. Here’s a thread featuring a guy asking which surgeries to get to have hunter eyes : https://www.realself.com/question/indianapolis-male-hunter-eyes

Thankfully, I naturally have hunter eyes and think they’re my best feature out of all my Incel face. But yours can be improved. Also, if you’re not kidding about being 5’7” then I think that it’s safe to say that you won’t be able to get laid in the west without getting leg lengthening surgery although it’s extreme AF.

 

[mikepence]

I've never measured by my face is pretty wide and I have a shortish nose. Doesn't change my recessed chin, weird mouth and shitty head shape though

 

[itsOVER]

For fillers, you need upperlid fillers. They can only be done in the US though, never seen one done on other countries. There’s also a forum full of well learned surgeons who know about PSLI and ideal DOM features such as “hunter eyes”, you can go there and show them pics of your eye area and tell them that you want to get hunter eyes and they’ll suggest to you what to get and the rest will be on you. Here’s a thread featuring a guy asking which surgeries to get to have hunter eyes : https://www.realself.com/question/indianapolis-male-hunter-eyes

Thankfully, I naturally have hunter eyes and think they’re my best feature out of all my Incel face. But yours can be improved. Also, if you’re not kidding about being 5’7” then I think that it’s safe to say that you won’t be able to get laid in the west without getting leg lengthening surgery although it’s extreme AF.

Oh yeah it's totally over in the west. Well it never really began. The point of my surgerycope is to make it easier in places where it's not yet over. For example, going up one PSL point will be of great benefit in SEA in terms of attracting top quality girls, and will at least put me in the game in Eastern Europe etc (seriously, using Ryo's morph of me vs using my normal pic..it's kinda suicidefuel how many more matches I get with the morph...basically I'm about $30k short of being able to get a nice EE Stacy).

As always though, the dilemma is whether to burn up another year to save up for surgery, or just be content with banging 6s in SEA for now, and get the surgeries in like 5 years. By which point the agepill will probably counter out any gains I make from surgery, though at least I wouldn't have wasted any more time being incel.

I think for the jaw surgery I'd want to go to Eppley in the U.S., hence why it's like $15,000 (to be fair that also includes fixing my chin). He uses a wrap around jaw implant which basically redefines the whole lower third area, and according to lookism he's very red pilled on looks so there's a good chance of getting a slayer lower third at least. Take a look here if you're interested, it looks top tier stuff: https://www.eppleyplasticsurgery.com/jaw/.

I just wouldn't really wanna go to some cheap place because as we all know, your face is your life, and if it gets messed up = it's game over boyo. It's just sad most plastic surgeons are based in the U.S...surgery for men hasn't really taken off much in Europe just yet, and if you get it done in Asia there's a risk that you come out looking like a faggot as they have different beauty standards over there (i.e. more feminine features are common on men).

It's a constant race against time anyway...by the time I can afford all this shit I could easily be in my early 30s, and if I do leg lengthening that'll be a year of recovery time too.

 

[Octopusgun2]

For fillers, you need upperlid fillers. They can only be done in the US though, never seen one done on other countries. There’s also a forum full of well learned surgeons who know about PSLI and ideal DOM features such as “hunter eyes”, you can go there and show them pics of your eye area and tell them that you want to get hunter eyes and they’ll suggest to you what to get and the rest will be on you. Here’s a thread featuring a guy asking which surgeries to get to have hunter eyes : https://www.realself.com/question/indianapolis-male-hunter-eyes
Thankfully, I naturally have hunter eyes and think they’re my best feature out of all my Incel face. But yours can be improved. Also, if you’re not kidding about being 5’7” then I think that it’s safe to say that you won’t be able to get laid in the west without getting leg lengthening surgery although it’s extreme AF.

Oh yeah it's totally over in the west. Well it never really began. The point of my surgerycope is to make it easier in places where it's not yet over. For example, going up one PSL point will be of great benefit in SEA in terms of attracting top quality girls, and will at least put me in the game in Eastern Europe etc (seriously, using Ryo's morph of me vs using my normal pic..it's kinda suicidefuel how many more matches I get with the morph...basically I'm about $30k short of being able to get a nice EE Stacy).
As always though, the dilemma is whether to burn up another year to save up for surgery, or just be content with banging 6s in SEA for now, and get the surgeries in like 5 years. By which point the agepill will probably counter out any gains I make from surgery, though at least I wouldn't have wasted any more time being incel.
I think for the jaw surgery I'd want to go to Eppley in the U.S., hence why it's like $15,000 (to be fair that also includes fixing my chin). He uses a wrap around jaw implant which basically redefines the whole lower third area, and according to lookism he's very red pilled on looks so there's a good chance of getting a slayer lower third at least. Take a look here if you're interested, it looks top tier stuff: https://www.eppleyplasticsurgery.com/jaw/.
I just wouldn't really wanna go to some cheap place because as we all know, your face is your life, and if it gets messed up = it's game over boyo. It's just sad most plastic surgeons are based in the U.S...surgery for men hasn't really taken off much in Europe just yet, and if you get it done in Asia there's a risk that you come out looking like a faggot as they have different beauty standards over there (i.e. more feminine features are common on men).
It's a constant race against time anyway...by the time I can afford all this shit I could easily be in my early 30s, and if I do leg lengthening that'll be a year of recovery time too.

Fuuaaarkkk...That surgeon is a god, never knew about him. I too need double jaw and chin wing surgery as I have a receding chin and a slightly narrow lower third. I think it’s TOTALLY worth getting surgery. I myself will not be wasting time since i’m young and I have to hit the iron while it’s hot, i already have my rhino planned out and i’m pressuring my dad to get it for me.

 

[itsOVER]

Fuuaaarkkk...That surgeon is a god, never knew about him. I too need double jaw and chin wing surgery as I have a receding chin and a slightly narrow lower third. I think it’s TOTALLY worth getting surgery. I myself will not be wasting time since i’m young and I have to hit the iron while it’s hot, i already have my rhino planned out and i’m pressuring my dad to get it for me.

Oh yeah for sure if you're in college it'll be well worth it. Get the stuff done at age 22 and you've got around 8 years more of being at your physical peak. Whereas for me the benefits of wagecucking in a crap high paying country for one more year would take me to being age 28 (I'm 26 now, will be 27 at graduation, then working a year takes me to 28), giving me only 2 years of 'peak' time, although of course you do feel the benefits in your 30s as well, just to a lesser extent I guess. It's certainly highly debatable whether it's worth giving up one year of pretty much guaranteed getting laid time, just for the possibility of being able to attract higher quality girls later cos tbh it's not like the girls I get in SEA are terrible to begin with - they're pretty decent, it's just they're not the very top 8+ tier which might be obtainable with surgery and the +2 point PSL 'be white' halo you get over there.

If possible I'd try get your dad to get you the surgery NOW. You're in college, this is in theory the best time for slaying. No point putting it off until after college really if you can get it done now.

I'm getting my hair done this year, then will save for the jaw surgery first as I feel that's my worst area currently - and it's also the easiest area to improve through surgery. It's just a case of whether to go to somewhere shit like the UAE, have no friends and no life but save $30k or so and get the surgeries I need...or to go to somewhere like Vietnam, only save $6k a year which means it's taking 5 years for the same stuff...but I would have the benefit of getting laid all 5 of those years anyway, albeit maybe with normie tier girls rather than Stacy tier.

If your jaw is bad I'd go for the jaw surgery first btw. Nose is typically of lower tier importance unless yours is seriously ruining your facial harmony.

How's your zygos? Since that's another area that's difficult to 'fix' through surgery, and is pretty important to overall looks.

 

[Octopusgun2]

Fuuaaarkkk...That surgeon is a god, never knew about him. I too need double jaw and chin wing surgery as I have a receding chin and a slightly narrow lower third. I think it’s TOTALLY worth getting surgery. I myself will not be wasting time since i’m young and I have to hit the iron while it’s hot, i already have my rhino planned out and i’m pressuring my dad to get it for me.

Oh yeah for sure if you're in college it'll be well worth it. Get the stuff done at age 22 and you've got around 8 years more of being at your physical peak. Whereas for me the benefits of wagecucking in a crap high paying country for one more year would take me to being age 28 (I'm 26 now, will be 27 at graduation, then working a year takes me to 28), giving me only 2 years of 'peak' time, although of course you do feel the benefits in your 30s as well, just to a lesser extent I guess. It's certainly highly debatable whether it's worth giving up one year of pretty much guaranteed getting laid time, just for the possibility of being able to attract higher quality girls later cos tbh it's not like the girls I get in SEA are terrible to begin with - they're pretty decent, it's just they're not the very top 8+ tier which might be obtainable with surgery and the +2 point PSL 'be white' halo you get over there.
If possible I'd try get your dad to get you the surgery NOW. You're in college, this is in theory the best time for slaying. No point putting it off until after college really if you can get it done now.
I'm getting my hair done this year, then will save for the jaw surgery first as I feel that's my worst area currently - and it's also the easiest area to improve through surgery. It's just a case of whether to go to somewhere shit like the UAE, have no friends and no life but save $30k or so and get the surgeries I need...or to go to somewhere like Vietnam, only save $6k a year which means it's taking 5 years for the same stuff...but I would have the benefit of getting laid all 5 of those years anyway, albeit maybe with normie tier girls rather than Stacy tier.
If your jaw is bad I'd go for the jaw surgery first btw. Nose is typically of lower tier importance unless yours is seriously ruining your facial harmony.
How's your zygos? Since that's another area that's difficult to 'fix' through surgery, and is pretty important to overall looks.

Sadly i’m half an ethnic so I probably won’t be able to get laid in SEA. I’ll be getting surgery once I finish this year as I would have to go to another college since I don’t want to have people asking me if I got surgery on my nose...Also, my zygos is pretty average and isn’t subhuman tier. My nose is what I got bullied for back in HS and it’s pretty back especially from the profile or angle view, it legit makes me look like a parrot.

 

[itsOVER]

Sadly i’m half an ethnic so I probably won’t be able to get laid in SEA. I’ll be getting surgery once I finish this year as I would have to go to another college since I don’t want to have people asking me if I got surgery on my nose...Also, my zygos is pretty average and isn’t subhuman tier. My nose is what I got bullied for back in HS and it’s pretty back especially from the profile or angle view, it legit makes me look like a parrot.

Well, good luck I guess. In some ways I wish I'd found this place earlier as it would have motivated me to get surgery at a much better time in life.

With that said...finding this place generally screws your head up even more, so maybe it's a good thing I only discovered it later...

 

[Uglychad]

I'd need jaw + chin...unfortunately I'm a UKcel and pretty much no one does jaw surgery here, seems to be more popular in America which involves travel + higher American medical prices. I'll look into fillers for eye area but tbh not sure what it is I'd need there (i.e. I know it looks shit, but I don't really know why, nor how to fix it).

As for why I didn't do it before - in college I had no money (plus was a bluepilled normie who believed it was all about my low kunfidence, lololol), and pretty soon after college I went to Thailand where being white was enough to get laid, so of course there was no need for any surgery + I made fuck all in terms of money anyway. Now I'm in the UK and pretty much survive off the government loans for my college course, dunno where you got the idea I was financially stable lol. Never been rich at all unfortunately.

Continental Europe has fantastic jaw surgeons
Dr Zarrinbal
Dr Birbe
Dr DeFrancq
Dr Raffaini
Dr Wolfgang Kater
Dr Brusco & Triaca

Most of them are reasonably priced except for the Swiss contingent

The UK equivalents are shit.