Serious Gymcels and protein requirements

[VirginAutistManlet]

I notice that it's very difficult for me to stay within my calorie restriction while getting enough protein in, I tend to end up over-eating in order to hit my protein requirements often. Not only that but I find I get really sick and tired of constantly having to get enough protein in, and it makes me not want to continue cutting anymore.

I think if I was to cut, and didn't have to stress over protein intake, that I would be able to stick to my calorie deficit a lot easier, because I'd have more variety of options, and I wouldn't have to stress about hitting my protein requirements, Id just count calories and thats it.

With that said, would my gains all fall off if I stopped getting in all the protein I need? I'm a manlet, so I need to cut with 2k or less to actually get lean, if I don't focus on eating protein so much, I'd probably only be eating 50-80g protein per day at the most, which is a scary thought for me, because I would imagine all my gains falling off. But that said, would my gains actually fall the fuck off? I'm at a point where I no longer care about keeping every single bit of muscle mass I've gained, I just want to get lean for fucking once.

Willing to lose whatever muscle I'll lose only eating 50-80g protein per day to get lean. Its so aids trying to eat 150-200g/day while only eating 2k or less calories.

 

[Modus Coperandi]

idk man. it varies from person to person. u need to measure yourself.

tbh just take roids for three months and be done with it. no harm in it if you never do it again.

 

[KingOfRome]

Where do you get your protein? 200 grams of protein--far more than you probably need--only has 800 calories. Assuming your protein source has 2/3 of its calories from protein, that's 1200 calories. Adding 200 more calories in green fibrous vegetables (which is a huge amount of volume) only brings you up to 1400. Even if you're sitting on your ass 24/7 with no exercise at all, which you shouldn't be doing in the first place, the fat should still be dripping off you.

If you're sure you're getting your protein from lean sources, cut out carbs and fats. It's easy and simple.

 

[VirginAutistManlet]

Where do you get your protein? 200 grams of protein--far more than you probably need--only has 800 calories. Assuming your protein source has 2/3 of its calories from protein, that's 1200 calories. Adding 200 more calories in green fibrous vegetables (which is a huge amount of volume) only brings you up to 1400. Even if you're sitting on your ass 24/7 with no exercise at all, which you shouldn't be doing in the first place, the fat should still be dripping off you.

If you're sure you're getting your protein from lean sources, cut out carbs and fats. It's easy and simple.

I know the whole grams per lbs or kg needed. What im saying is that I can't eat that much anymore, im sick of eating meat everyday, and force-feeding 150-200g/protein in everyday. I just wanna hit my target calories without worrying about getting in a perfect autistic amount of protein within those calories.

I'd rather be 10% bodyfat with less muscle and insufficient protein intake, than be 20% bodyfat with sufficient protein intake and more muscle. The problem is I force-feed down 150-200g protein, then I end up over-eating because I get sick of eating the foods I need to eat that amount of protein, and I want to eat other foods, which ends up with me going over my calories.

What IM saying is that if I didn't need to hit 150-200g protein and I had no actual protein target, I would be able to stick to my calorie deficit a lot easier, because I would only be eating what I want to eat, and not force-feeding down protein all the time which makes me not want to stick to my diet.

 

[KingOfRome]

I know the whole grams per lbs or kg needed. What im saying is that I can't eat that much anymore, im sick of eating meat everyday, and force-feeding 150-200g/protein in everyday. I just wanna hit my target calories without worrying about getting in a perfect autistic amount of protein within those calories.

I'd rather be 10% bodyfat with less muscle and insufficient protein intake, than be 20% bodyfat with sufficient protein intake and more muscle. The problem is I force-feed down 150-200g protein, then I end up over-eating because I get sick of eating the foods I need to eat that amount of protein, and I want to eat other foods, which ends up with me going over my calories.

What IM saying is that if I didn't need to hit 150-200g protein and I had no actual protein target, I would be able to stick to my calorie deficit a lot easier, because I would only be eating what I want to eat, and not force-feeding down protein all the time which makes me not want to stick to my diet.

There are plenty of lean non-meat protein sources out there. Various protein powders, egg whites, TVP, and wheat gluten are all good examples.

Protein shakes are your golden ticket imo.

 

[VirginAutistManlet]

There are plenty of lean non-meat protein sources out there. Various protein powders, egg whites, TVP, and wheat gluten are all good examples.

Protein shakes are your golden ticket imo.

Nah man, those are all shitty bland foods. I just threw out 4kg's of protein powder in the bin because I got sick having it everyday. Im sick and tired of eating all these protein foods, the problem is I can eat them sure, but the problem is that I want to eat other foods, and I just cant stick to my calorie deficit with this predicament. 200g protein being 800 calories is being dishonest (yes I know 1g protein = 4 calories), but because nobody fucking gets 200g of protein within 800 calories, not unless you're eating dozens of egg whites per day and drinking whey protein with water (I've done that before, it gets old and makes me crave actual food). It would take me being allowed to eat at least 3000 calories in per day, to make that 200g doable, and it still wouldn't be comfortable for me. Now when I need to cut on <2000 calories, it makes getting even just 150g protein painful to get in.

I don't know what it is, but this need to hit a minimum protein amount within my calories just makes me over-eat on other foods, because I get sick of the protein force-feeding. What Im trying to say here is, it would be much easier for me to stick to my calorie limits, if I didn't have to think about my protein intake, and just ate whatever I wanted for my calories, instead of having to worry about getting in X amount of protein within my calories. I am wondering how much muscle I would actually be losing, by not worrying about my protein intake. How did the Greeks get their physiques? its not like they could always get X amount of protein in per day. Im wondering just how badly muscle loss would be (if at all) with not actually getting in the typical "0.82g protein per lbs" or "2g per kg" protein intake minimum requirements that people in bodybuilding use.



TLDR: I just want to get lean, I dont care about maintaining every gram of muscle on my frame, Im tired of not being lean, and if me no longer worrying about protein intake and just focusing purely on calories can help me get to 10% bodyfat, even with muscle loss from not eating enough protein, I'd rather be lean with less muscle. Im willing to take that "risk". I came to this conclusion because I see tons of low bodyfat lean guys who don't even lift who mog me in aesthetics, just because they're lean, and they'd be lucky to eat 200g protein within a week, let a lone a day.

 

[KingOfRome]

Nah man, those are all shitty bland foods. I just threw out 4kg's of protein powder in the bin because I got sick having it everyday. Im sick and tired of eating all these protein foods, the problem is I can eat them sure, but the problem is that I want to eat other foods, and I just cant stick to my calorie deficit with this predicament.


200g protein being 800 calories is being dishonest, because nobody fucking gets 200g of protein within 800 calories, not unless you're eating dozens of egg whites per day and drinking whey protein with water (I've done that before, it gets old and makes me crave actual food). It would take me being allowed to eat at least 3000 calories in per day, to make that 200g doable, and it still wouldn't be comfortable for me. Now when I need to cut on <2000 calories, it makes getting even just 150g protein painful to get in.

I don't know what it is, but this need to hit a minimum protein amount within my calories just makes me over-eat on other foods, because I get sick of the protein force-feeding. What Im trying to say here is, it would be much easier for me to stick to my calorie limits, if I didn't have to think about my protein intake, and just ate whatever I wanted for my calories, instead of having to worry about getting in X amount of protein within my calories.

I am wondering how much muscle I would actually be losing, by not worrying about my protein intake. How did the Greeks get their physiques? Its not like they were tracking protein/calories, and its not like they could always get X amount of protein in per day. Im wondering just how badly muscle loss would be (if at all) with not actually getting in the typical "0.82g protein per lbs" or "2g per kg" protein intake minimum requirements that people in bodybuilding use.

Fat loss is sacrifice. Especially once you get below 15% body fat. But even if your protein source has 2/3 of its calories in protein, that 800 calorie figure only jumps up to 1200, as I already mentioned. I've been cutting on 1300-1400 calories for the past 4 weeks or so and have torched fat while lazing around like a bum (apart from weightlifting of course) with little to no muscle loss.

You'd probably lose fat and muscle at a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio if you cut without getting your 1g/lb of protein in.

Ancient Olympian athletes were lean but not terribly muscular. Athletes in the classical period with a lot of muscle, e.g. Roman gladiators, also carried a fair bit of fat. Hardly anybody before the 20th century was a jacked bodybuilder with an eight-pack. You'll just have to suck it up if that's what you're going for, but if you want to have the lean but small-ish athletic look (like Jeff Cavaliere's protege Jesse), you can probably get away with doing a lot of GPP/conditioning work and eating somewhere around 2200 calories at 0.7g/lb or so, which I don't think you'd have a lot of trouble with.

 

[VirginAutistManlet]

Fat loss is sacrifice. Especially once you get below 15% body fat. But even if your protein source has 2/3 of its calories in protein, that 800 calorie figure only jumps up to 1200, as I already mentioned. I've been cutting on 1300-1400 calories for the past 4 weeks or so and have torched fat while lazing around like a bum (apart from weightlifting of course) with little to no muscle loss.

You'd probably lose fat and muscle at a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio if you cut without getting your 1g/lb of protein in.

Ancient Olympian athletes were lean but not terribly muscular. Athletes in the classical period with a lot of muscle, e.g. Roman gladiators, also carried a fair bit of fat. Hardly anybody before the 20th century was a jacked bodybuilder with an eight-pack. You'll just have to suck it up if that's what you're going for, but if you want to have the lean but small-ish athletic look (like Jeff Cavaliere's protege Jesse), you can probably get away with doing a lot of GPP/conditioning work and eating somewhere around 2200 calories at 0.7g/lb or so, which I don't think you'd have a lot of trouble with.

AthleanX is def on TRT, theres no way hes maintaining that low level of bodyfat year round for 10+ years on natural hormones, its just not possible, unless his some genetic freak, which I doubt, because every roider claims to be a genetic freak. Its easy to be a genetic freak shredded all the time when your injecting synthetic hormones and dont have to worry about maintaining hormonal function through proper and adequate caloric intake and overall nutrition/exercise/sleep. You always see natties who get really lean, they never maintain it longer than a few weeks because their hormonal function gets all fucked up and they start losing muscle at a rapid rate, have no erections, and begin to develop all the symptoms of low T etc. Jeff been shredded all these years with 0 symptoms of Low T? yeah, thats not natty, he got that old TRT prescription keeping his hormones in check so he can maintain that shredded state without any health issues or muscle loss.

 

[KingOfRome]

AthleanX is def on TRT, theres no way hes maintaining that low level of bodyfat year round for 10+ years on natural hormones, its just not possible, unless his some genetic freak, which I doubt, because every roider claims to be a genetic freak. Its easy to be a genetic freak shredded all the time when your injecting synthetic hormones and dont have to worry about maintaining hormonal function through proper and adequate caloric intake and overall nutrition/exercise/sleep. You always see natties who get really lean, they never maintain it longer than a few weeks because their hormonal function gets all fucked up and they start losing muscle at a rapid rate, have no erections, and begin to develop all the symptoms of low T etc. Jeff been shredded all these years with 0 symptoms of Low T? yeah, thats not natty, he got that old TRT prescription keeping his hormones in check so he can maintain that shredded state without any health issues or muscle loss.

I'm talking about Jesse, not Jeff.

 

[VirginAutistManlet]

I'm talking about Jesse, not Jeff.

Isn't Jesse a new lifter? Ive been lifting for 7 years. Only reason Ive never been lean is because Ive never been able to stick to a calorie deficit long enough because I get sick of how bland a cutting diet has to be. Even with IIFYM as a manlet with a low metabolism, its hard to get in the amount of protein the calculators say I need.

Increasing my activity doesn't help, I've done that before, all it does it make cutting harder due to the fact that extra exercise makes my hunger levels increase, which defeats the purpose entirely. Feeling more hungry = more likely that I go off my diet and binge. This leads back to the protein requirements. Having to focus on getting in enough protein, that screws with my head mentality, and increases the likelihood of me going off my diet. Hence why I've come to the conclusion that perhaps if I removed all these annoyances that make me go off my diet, and just focused on calories, and calories only, maybe I'll actually be able to get really lean for once.

 

[KingOfRome]

Isn't Jesse a new lifter? Ive been lifting for 7 years.

Jesse's been training under Jeff for several years and is a chronic undereater.

 

[VirginAutistManlet]

Jesse's been training under Jeff for several years and is a chronic undereater.

Im not a chronic undereater. If anything im the opposite. I dont have a problem eating. The problem I have is eating the same 5 or so main sources of protein everyday.


I can't even think about eating chicken, beef, fish, eggs, protein powder, tuna, etc - Im so sick of all this shit. I just can't force-feed it anymore. Im tired of eating it. These foods are required for me to eat DAILY for me to actually hit the recommended minimum bodybuilding protein intake requirements, and I just dont want to do it anymore.

I JUST WANT TO BE LEAN IDGAF ABOUT MAXIMIZING MUH MUSCLE RETENTION

 

[gnomen1]

You don´t need to think of proteins. There is more than enough of it in normal food.

Just look at what happens to people who are on juice. They can eat junk and drink copious amounts of alcohol every weekend. The muscles will grow and the fat disappears.

Protein supplements is a scam.The kidneys will be unnecessarily strained and you will piss out the amino acids you don´t use.

 

[KingOfRome]

Im not a chronic undereater. If anything im the opposite. I dont have a problem eating. The problem I have is eating the same 5 or so main sources of protein everyday.


I can't even think about eating chicken, beef, fish, eggs, protein powder, tuna, etc - Im so sick of all this shit. I just can't force-feed it anymore. Im tired of eating it. These foods are required for me to eat DAILY for me to actually hit the recommended minimum bodybuilding protein intake requirements, and I just dont want to do it anymore.

I JUST WANT TO BE LEAN IDGAF ABOUT MAXIMIZING MUH MUSCLE RETENTION

No, what I'm saying is if you want a physique like Jesse's, which I get the impression you do, you can probably get away with eating 2000-2500 calories a day and doing lots of GPP/conditioning without worrying too much about protein.

 

[VirginAutistManlet]

No, what I'm saying is if you want a physique like Jesse's, which I get the impression you do, you can probably get away with eating 2000-2500 calories a day and doing lots of GPP/conditioning without worrying too much about protein.

I need <2000 calories to get 10% bodyfat, even with daily exercise (lifting/cardio). Im a manlet and have a slow metabolism, even after 7 years of lifting and gaining a lot of strength and muscle, it barely impacted my metabolism. Im guessing my metabolism is probably a case of being manlet + having below average T levels.

7 years ago I was 140lbs (at 25, not as a teen), I bulked upto 200lbs over about 5 years. I cut down to 172lbs 2 years ago and was pretty lean, but I went back upto 200lbs again out of frustration with the diet being so painful to stick to (eating so much protein, with limited calories = painful). I assume I would need to be about 155 to 160lbs to have an actual aesthetic body. Im thinking of just focusing on calories and calories only, not worrying about protein, and cutting down to 155-160lbs to see how I look, without even thinking about muh protein intake.

You don´t need to think of proteins. There is more than enough of it in normal food.

Just look at what happens to people who are on juice. They can eat junk and drink copious amounts of alcohol every weekend. The muscles will grow and the fat disappears.

Protein supplements is a scam.The kidneys will be unnecessarily strained and you will piss out the amino acids you don´t use.

Yeah I know how those Chads get away with not even thinking about protein intake or anything, but all the science-based nerds in bodybuilding/powerlifting always talk about muh protein intake requirements.

But I disagree with there being enough of it in food on a normal diet. If you're a manlet with a shit metabolism like me, to actually get in the minimum protein requirements, it takes the majority of my calories to do it, which means having to focus on specific foods everyday, which is why it becomes painful and excruciatingly boring to eat that way, it just makes me not want to stick to the diet.

I would need a TDEE of like 4000 calories for me to make eating 200g protein per day comfortable, because having the extra calories would make eating that protein everyday easier, as you can add more variety to the diet which makes the protein consumption easier. Being limited to <2000 calories as a manlet with shitty metabolism, it makes squeezing in science-based recommended protein amounts in very painful, because you end up barely having any free calories to do with what you want, instead you're forced to eat shit you don't want to eat all the time, just to stick within the caloric limits & still hit the protein goals.

 

[KingOfRome]

I need <2000 calories to get 10% bodyfat, even with daily exercise (lifting/cardio). Im a manlet and have a slow metabolism, even after 7 years of lifting and gaining a lot of strength and muscle, it barely impacted my metabolism. Im guessing my metabolism is probably a case of being manlet + having below average T levels.

7 years ago I was 140lbs, I bulked upto 200lbs over about 5 years. I cut down to 172lbs 2 years ago and was pretty lean, but I went back upto 200lbs again. I assume I would need to be about 155 to 160lbs to have an actual aesthetic body.

Seems to me like you're carrying too much fat to see much of a difference visually, at least in the short term, unless you go ham with your caloric deficit like what you seem to be doing now. I know having to choose between having the process be slow and brutal, and having it be less brutal but even slower, is a pain, but this is why you never let yourself get too fat in the first place.

You have my sympathy, but still, having patience and willpower is the only way you'll ever get lean.

 

[VirginAutistManlet]

Seems to me like you're carrying too much fat to see much of a difference visually, at least in the short term, unless you go ham with your caloric deficit like what you seem to be doing now. I know having to choose between having the process be slow and brutal, and having it be less brutal but even slower, is a pain, but this is why you never let yourself get too fat in the first place.

You have my sympathy, but still, having patience and willpower is the only way you'll ever get lean.

5'7 200lbs is fucked. I basically fell for the "eat big to get big" meme. Again I have no problem eating calories, its the specifics of force-feeding a minimum amount of protein in, I did it for several years, and I just can't do it anymore.

It took me like 5 months to go from 200lbs to 172lbs when I cut in 2017, I was happy with the results, but definitely was not ideal, the ideal would have been around 150-160lbs.

Whats fucked is that when I was 140lbs pre lifting, I had a gut still, so I wasn't even lean at 140lbs as a non lifter at 5'7, at 140lbs without any lifting I prob had 20lbs of fat on me, I believe my bodyfat was about the same as it is right now when I'm at 200lbs. It makes me think my non lifting 0 gains body-weight to be lean is around 120lbs, and my body-weight to be lean after 7 years of lifting and gains, is around 150-160lbs.

 

[KingOfRome]

5'7 200lbs is fucked. I basically fell for the "eat big to get big" meme. Again I have no problem eating calories, its the specifics of force-feeding a minimum amount of protein in, I did it for several years, and I just can't do it anymore.

It took me like 5 months to go from 200lbs to 172lbs when I cut in 2017, I was happy with the results, but definitely was not ideal, the ideal would have been around 150-160lbs.

Whats fucked is that when I was 140lbs pre lifting, I had a gut still, so I wasn't even lean at 140lbs as a non lifter at 5'7, at 140lbs without any lifting I prob had 20lbs of fat on me, I believe my bodyfat was about the same as it is right now when I'm at 200lbs. It makes me think my non lifting 0 gains body-weight to be lean is around 120lbs, and my body-weight to be lean after 7 years of lifting and gains, is around 150-160lbs.

Maybe you need a break. Obsessing over your body like this isn't healthy.

 

[VirginAutistManlet]

Maybe you need a break. Obsessing over your body like this isn't healthy.

Ok I'll do the trial thing. I'm going to cut until I reach around 150 to 160lbs. Im not going to worry about getting a minimum amount of protein in, Im just going to count calories and thats it. I'll probably go days where I barely get 50g protein in a day. Anyway I'll report back to see if I lose all my gains. I'll be doing my normal routine throughout the cut, so I guess I'll find out what happens to my gains with the most likely insufficient amount of protein intake. I guess if I lose all my gains with the insufficient intake of protein, that I can always just get them back again, no problem. As for right now I'm willing to take the risk of losing gains. Being lean is more important to me now anyway.

 

[zangano1]

Is it worth gymceling if I don't have a good diet and don't take any of this protein crap some gymcels do. I'm not fat btw, just want some muscle and as low body fat as possible

 

[KingOfRome]

Is it worth gymceling if I don't have a good diet and don't take any of this protein crap some gymcels do. I'm not fat btw, just want some muscle and as low body fat as possible

Rock climbing and maybe some weightlifting on the side.