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eastern front

nausea

nausea

Fesikh
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super good photos on this site

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2011/09/world-war-ii-the-eastern-front/100150/

good pc game related : red orchestra 2 heroes of stalingrad

[video=youtube]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaMxUn5o85s[/video]

another good game-simulation : graviteam tacticts operation star

[video=youtube]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPoEr5761Y4[/video]

@commander_zoidberg 

tons of incredible battles took place in this scenario, stalingrad is full of interesting and not well-known facts for example, but also the rhzev meatgrinder, etc


superpowerful video and music

[video=youtube]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz4VD7m8X74[/video]
 
Ah, the good old Eastern Front.

The Germans fucked themselves with that one. Threw away the game, never prepared properly, inadequate logistic provision and allowed their invasion to be delayed because of the Balkan campaign and despite having geniuses like Von Manstien and Gudarian they let a militarily incompetent corporal direct the battle.
 
commander_zoidberg said:
Ah, the good old Eastern Front.

The Germans fucked themselves with that one. Threw away the game, never prepared properly, inadequate logistic provision and allowed their invasion to be delayed because of the Balkan campaign and despite having geniuses like Von Manstien and Gudarian they let a militarily incompetent corporal direct the battle.

the ww2 was fought there indeed

still, the masterplan was good

what do you think could have happened if the nazis captured moscow?
 
nausea said:
the ww2 was fought there indeed

still, the masterplan was good

what do you think could have happened if the nazis captured moscow?

Same thing that happened to Napoleon. The reds would have burnt the city to the ground and the Germans would have had to withdraw to a defensible position and try and ride out the winter (which they were totally unprepared for). The Germans never seemed to understand that the value of objectives like Moscow was not in their capture as the reds used scorched earth but the destruction of the Soviet forces defending that objective by encirclement and denial of infrastructure. Even though that is basically how they had reached Moscow in the first place. It makes no sense. The only way to knock the Soviets out of the war was their oil reserves in the south. They could have dealt with Moscow and Leningrad later when the Soviet Union collapsed due to lack of oil for transportation.
 
commander_zoidberg said:
nausea said:
the ww2 was fought there indeed
still, the masterplan was good
what do you think could have happened if the nazis captured moscow?
Same thing that happened to Napoleon. The reds would have burnt the city to the ground and the Germans would have had to withdraw to a defensible position and try and ride out the winter (which they were totally unprepared for). The Germans never seemed to understand that the value of objectives like Moscow was not in their capture as the reds used scorched earth but the destruction of the Soviet forces defending that objective by encirclement and denial of infrastructure. Even though that is basically how they had reached Moscow in the first place. It makes no sense. The only way to knock the Soviets out of the war was their oil reserves in the south. They could have dealt with Moscow and Leningrad later when the Soviet Union collapsed due to lack of oil for transportation.
the allied lend-lease, how much of a difference did it make?
 
You are a sophisticated man
 
Bri8564 said:
You are a sophisticated man
@commander_zoidberg is superior in geopolitics
 
nausea said:
the allied lend-lease, how much of a difference did it make?

It was the only thing that allowed the Soviets to go on the offensive. The 400,000 6-wheel drive trucks and the 8000 rolling stock and 2000 locomotives which allowed the reds to move the materiel produced in their factories east of the Urals, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Siberia. etc to the front and allowed them to keep their armies supplied in the field. The food the west was able to supply is probably the only thing that prevented outright starvation in the Soviet union in the early years of the war.
 
commander_zoidberg said:
nausea said:
the allied lend-lease, how much of a difference did it make?
It was the only thing that allowed the Soviets to go on the offensive. The 400,000 6-wheel drive trucks and the 8000 rolling stock and 2000 locomotives which allowed the reds to move the materiel produced in their factories east of the Urals, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Siberia. etc to the front and allowed them to keep their armies supplied in the field. The food the west was able to supply is probably the only thing that prevented outright starvation in the Soviet union in the early years of the war.
check graviteam tactics, superb realistic and historical
 
[video=youtube]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLgM8xgJMII[/video]
 
The brave, but futile efforts of the Romanian army on the eastern front will not be forgotten!

Here are some photos made by Romanian soldiers as they advanced towards Crimea and the Don:

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gig8PdImWw8[/video]

The marching music is absolutely inspiring!
 
KvltWarrior98 said:
The brave, but futile efforts of the Romanian
ya know ger paired ita and rom up to defend the southern directory of the rus counterattack, right? I have italian docs first hand experience eh
 
nausea said:
ya know ger paired ita and rom up to defend the southern directory of the rus counterattack, right? I have italian docs first hand experience eh

Yes, I know. Even my grandfather told me stories of his own father dying fighting alongside his Italian brothers at Stalingrad. He was a lieutenant colonel, but decided to stay behind with his commanded troops and paid the ultimate price for this. For me he was a hero...

I can only imagine how many stories like his are around, how many died in vain...
 
KvltWarrior98 said:
how many died in vain...
especially frozen and starved during the retreat or in the stalingrad pocket


KvltWarrior98 said:
I can only imagine how many stories like his are around
eh many but such people is old and dying, will remain only their interviews and books
 
nausea said:
especially frozen and starved during the retreat or in the stalingrad pocket

It is really sad. So many brave and noble souls lost due to the incompetence of some generals...
 
KvltWarrior98 said:
nausea said:
especially frozen and starved during the retreat or in the stalingrad pocket
It is really sad. So many brave and noble souls lost due to the incompetence of some generals...
well, in our case it was fault of the Duce eh
 
nausea said:
well, in our case it was fault of the Duce eh

Tell me more, what is your opinion on Mussolini?
 
The main theatre of WW2. Sadly, the Germans couldn't knock out the red beast in time for the winter of 1941. Stalingrad was a colossal fuck-up. They should have ran on to Astrakhan as planned and cut off Moscow from the Caucasus. Losing the Sixth Army was the beginning of the end. Kursk ended all hope of final victory with the loss of north Africa and Eastern Europe was duly enslaved by bolshevism and the world plunged into a Cold War for over 40 years.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOVEy1tC7nk[/video]

One of the turning points of history and not a good outcome. Germany would have peaced out with the Western Allies, as their only goal was lebensraum in the east, splitting the bolshevik's land with the Japanese at the Yenisei and the destruction of communism which would have saved lives. Instead, Mao, Kim, Ho Chi Minh and Pol Pot came to power and genocided tens of millions of their own people during what was largely peace-time.
 
KvltWarrior98 said:
nausea said:
well, in our case it was fault of the Duce eh
Tell me more, what is your opinion on Mussolini?
I talked about it in @Crustaciouse's thread, duce made a gamble


BlackPill47 said:
One of the turning points of history
with many turning points inside of it
 
nausea said:
I talked about it in @Crustaciouse's thread, duce made a gamble

I've seen it now. I agree with you.

Honestly, how I see it is that Mussolini's greatest mistake was his complete ignorance of foreign affairs - or much rather his unwillingness to adapt. Perhaps if had had a foreign policy as wise as his domestic policy he'd still have remained Duce even after the war...
 
nausea said:
with many turning points inside of it

Indeed. I said elsewhere here that Italy shouldn't have gotten involved in WW2. The north African front was unnecessary and ultimately proved costly for the Axis on the Eastern Front.

I'd like to have seen how Mussolini would have developed a peaceful Italy as Franco's Spain did during the Cold War, although I know that Il Duce wanted to connect Libya to Somalia, as well as Yugoslavia and Greece.
 
KvltWarrior98 said:
his complete ignorance of foreign affairs
disagree
KvltWarrior98 said:
Perhaps if had had a foreign policy as wise as his domestic policy he'd still have remained Duce even after the war.
that is SURE


BlackPill47 said:
The north African front was unnecessary and ultimately proved costly for the Axis on the Eastern Front.
strongly disagree
BlackPill47 said:
Franco's Spain
awwwwwwwwwww bleah
 
nausea said:
strongly disagree

Explain. Italian Libya ended up in a doomed two front war after Operation Torch in November 1942 and were eventually steamrolled from either side. This also diverted away crucial German resources from Stalingrad and then Kursk by mid-'43, which doomed the Eastern Front to defeat (not to mention making hard work of the Greeks in 1941). North Africa was meaningless compared to the struggles on the Eastern Front and led to the 'soft underbelly' and the invasion of Italy itself and southern France, to link up with the forces invading from Normandy. Italy could have waited out the war and wrestled Egypt, Sudan and British Somaliland away from British influence after Germany had won the peace with the Western Powers.

What's your opinion of General Franco?
 
BlackPill47 said:
Indeed. I said elsewhere here that Italy shouldn't have gotten involved in WW2. The north African front was unnecessary and ultimately proved costly for the Axis on the Eastern Front.

I'd like to have seen how Mussolini would have developed a peaceful Italy as Franco's Spain did during the Cold War, although I know that Il Duce wanted to connect Libya to Somalia, as well as Yugoslavia and Greece.

I absolutely agree. Whether this is true or not, I’m not sure, but I recall a bit of advice from a general, saying that Italy would be ready for the Second World War in 1943, allowing the Italian Army to respiuly and such. However, Mussolini felt pressured by Germany’s blitz, and joined the war. The phrase “Bit off to much to chew” is a good summary.
 
InebriatedIrish said:
I absolutely agree. Whether this is true or not, I’m not sure, but I recall a bit of advice from a general, saying that Italy would be ready for the Second World War in 1943, allowing the Italian Army to respiuly and such. However, Mussolini felt pressured by Germany’s blitz, and joined the war. The phrase “Bit off to much to chew” is a good summary.

Indeed. Italy joined the war just as France was falling in 1940 and wanted to take advantage - 'I only need a few thousand dead so that I can sit at the peace conference as a man who has fought'. There was little advance on the mountainous border though. Italy did keep an occupation zone in Vichy France (and the coast of Yugoslavia) until Il Duce was overthrown in 1943.
 
InebriatedIrish said:
I absolutely agree
I already told you italy was not an hinder to ger in any case


BlackPill47 said:
InebriatedIrish said:
I absolutely agree. Whether this is true or not, I’m not sure, but I recall a bit of advice from a general, saying that Italy would be ready for the Second World War in 1943, allowing the Italian Army to respiuly and such. However, Mussolini felt pressured by Germany’s blitz, and joined the war. The phrase “Bit off to much to chew” is a good summary.
Indeed. Italy joined the war just as France was falling in 1940 and wanted to take advantage - 'I only need a few thousand dead so that I can sit at the peace conference as a man who has fought'. There was little advance on the mountainous border though. Italy did keep an occupation zone in Vichy France (and the coast of Yugoslavia) until Il Duce was overthrown in 1943.
fr and yug were two different scenarios, not comparable


BlackPill47 said:
after Operation Torch in November 1942
war was already lost
BlackPill47 said:
This also diverted away crucial German resources from Stalingrad and then Kursk by mid-'43, which doomed the Eastern Front to defeat (not to mention making hard work of the Greeks in 1941).
nohoooo
BlackPill47 said:
North Africa was meaningless compared to the struggles on the Eastern Front and led to the 'soft underbelly' and the invasion of Italy itself and southern France, to link up with the forces invading from Normandy. Italy could have waited out the war and wrestled Egypt, Sudan and British Somaliland away from British influence after Germany had won the peace with the Western Powers.
false, anyway I will elab eh
BlackPill47 said:
What's your opinion of General Franco?
he was right in the sense that spain was not in condition to join axis BUT hitler and mussolini didn't want that either, italy wanted just military access

franco has betrayed the ones who gave him power, that's it
 
nausea said:
he was right in the sense that spain was not in condition to join axis BUT hitler and mussolini didn't want that either, italy wanted just military access

franco has betrayed the ones who gave him power, that's it

I heard that Adolf wanted Spain in the Axis, but he and Franco did not get on at all. Spain did send volunteers to fight on the Eastern Front. It was better that nationalists beat the communists in the civil war. Not getting in the war let him survive for three decades after it.
 
BlackPill47 said:
North Africa was meaningless compared to the struggles on the Eastern Front and led to the 'soft underbelly' and the invasion of Italy itself and southern France, to link up with the forces invading from Normandy. Italy could have waited out the war and wrestled Egypt, Sudan and British Somaliland away from British influence after Germany had won the peace with the Western Powers.
North africa was crucial because UK alone could not do shit vs germany, closing the suez canal HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM big win

hitler did not want any competitor in europe, he righteously was sure to be able to deal with european enemies alone

the soft underbelly would have been an issue anyway because greece and uk were already side by side

the whole normandy and sicily thing was already cold war, what do you think?
 
nausea said:
North africa was crucial because UK alone could not do shit vs germany, closing the suez canal HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM big win

hitler did not want any competitor in europe, he righteously was sure to be able to deal with european enemies alone

the soft underbelly would have been an issue anyway because greece and uk were already side by side

the whole normandy and sicily thing was already cold war, what do you think?

Germany certainly wanted the Middle East for the oil and to kick out the British and French from there. Suez was cruicial for supplies with Japan and Madagascar. It's just that Libya was in a bad position for a two-front war once the Vichy French in North Africa defected to the Free French after Operation Torch. It would seem that there was less chance of the soft underbelly with the Allies invading from Greece or the Middle East, rather than Tunisia. It was just a short hop to Sicily and the toe.

Had the Germans Stalingrad/Caucasus front succeeded, they would have linked up with Axis troops in the Middle East, had Egypt fallen. Of course, the Allies were smart enough to invade and occupy Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Iran in 1941, thereby securing the Middle East's oil, mostly before Germany's crusade against bolshevism started. It seems like the Axis should have helped the Vichy French keep hold of Syria and Lebanon for a good toehold in the Middle East.

I do think for a time there was an 'early Cold War' race to Berlin, from 1943 to early 1945. Until the Yalta conference when the Soviets were given carte blanche to rape their way to the Reichstag and set up 'buffer' states. Sadly for eastern Europe, the success of the Western Front had stalled at the German borders 5-6 months after D-Day and it took a few months to break into the Ruhr, by that time the Soviets had taken inter-war Poland and the Balkans, consigning them to decades of misery. It seems that D-Day couldn't have happened any earlier due to the failure of the Dieppe raid in 1942 and Churchill was prioritizing the capture of north Africa first, to the chagrin of the Americans who thought they were being used to make the British Empire stronger. Any invasion of northern France required the Germans to be on the ropes in the east. Northern France was 'lightly defended' by D-Day. With an invasion from southern France as well, the Germans were forced to retreat to the Fatherland to avoid the large pincer capturing them all.

The unnecessary firebombing of Dresden was supposedly to be a warning to the Soviets not to go any further west than agreed. I think it was at the Potsdam Conference after the war that Stalin lamented that Tsar Alexander got to Paris. This should have proved that the West could never have trusted the Soviets. The Americans should have nuked them before 1949. Instead the world was stuck in a nuclear stalemate until Reagan's military spending bankrupted the Soviets who were trying to keep up, while Gorbachev was letting the USSR break-up by lifting the political repression brought in by the bolshevik regime in the first place. At least the Cold War ended without going hot, but there's another one brewing now between the West and Putin and also red China playing the long game.
 
How much will the price sink on steam sale? its 18 euro now on steam
 
Speaking of WW2 games, I do like Hearts of Iron III. Playing as Germany, I conquered the Soviets and occupied Britain, achieving victory conditions and playing on a little. Invading North America was tough though. I usually end up losing interest and playing the early part of the game again. The final expansion pack had a custom game which made it easier to build your army and technology from scratch and steamroll the opposition.
 
Allblueeeee said:
How much will the price sink on steam sale? its 18 euro now on steam
which game?
 
Allblueeeee said:
nausea said:
red orchestra 2?
yes
ah ok, yea go for it, supreme game, also buy the japanese expansion, truly one of the best mp game ever, it is truly a killing simulation, the atmosphere is great, it seems to be THERE, also use the native voices eh

also it is historically accurate
 
nausea said:
ah ok, yea go for it, supreme game, also buy the japanese expansion, truly one of the best mp game ever, it is truly a killing simulation, the atmosphere is great, it seems to be THERE, also use the native voices eh

also it is historically accurate

i just asked how much the price sinks in steam sale. I dont want to buy it now since its 18 euro
 
Allblueeeee said:
nausea said:
ah ok, yea go for it, supreme game, also buy the japanese expansion, truly one of the best mp game ever, it is truly a killing simulation, the atmosphere is great, it seems to be THERE, also use the native voices eh
also it is historically accurate
i just asked how much the price sinks in steam sale. I dont want to buy it now since its 18 euro
ah ok, it may go 75%, but I saw it several times at 80%
 

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