Or you believe in hard determinism?
N
No I think it has pretty much been deboonked
Free will is magical thinking.
I think it's more broad than that. But soon there will be no free will with the way the world is going
Obviously no, you can't build a mechanism for free will using deterministic physics with some true randomness at the lowest levels. Free Will isn't even well-defined, even in your own imagination.
You can invision a process being predetermined, A leads to B leads to C.
Or you can imagine a process being random, though you have to leave a black hole where the origin of that randomness truly comes from. You can google "random number generator" right now, but the number it gives you is not truly random, there was a lot of effort invested into finding ways to make it practically random for all intents and purposes, but it's not random in the way that word actually implies. WIth perfect knowledge about the system, you could predict the number ahead of time. Throwing a dice is not really random, flipping a coin obviously isn't, all the crutches you use to represent randomness in your mind are really just cases of "it looks random to me because I am missing information".
But what exactly are you imagining when you talk about free will? A process that is undetermined, one going on in your brain but which ultimately takes a break right in the middle of the process and waits for some magical force inside you to pick a path for it to continue along. How does that work? How could that work? How does the mechanism enabling that look like?
Have you ever even seen anyone try to theorize about the how in detail? Have you ever seen some schematic model of a brain depicting how the process giving birth to free will would look like? If not, what basis is there for believing in free will outside of an illusion based your own limited perspective and the horrible, soul-crushing burden that comes with accepting that there is no such thing.
You can invision a process being predetermined, A leads to B leads to C.
Or you can imagine a process being random, though you have to leave a black hole where the origin of that randomness truly comes from. You can google "random number generator" right now, but the number it gives you is not truly random, there was a lot of effort invested into finding ways to make it practically random for all intents and purposes, but it's not random in the way that word actually implies. WIth perfect knowledge about the system, you could predict the number ahead of time. Throwing a dice is not really random, flipping a coin obviously isn't, all the crutches you use to represent randomness in your mind are really just cases of "it looks random to me because I am missing information".
But what exactly are you imagining when you talk about free will? A process that is undetermined, one going on in your brain but which ultimately takes a break right in the middle of the process and waits for some magical force inside you to pick a path for it to continue along. How does that work? How could that work? How does the mechanism enabling that look like?
Have you ever even seen anyone try to theorize about the how in detail? Have you ever seen some schematic model of a brain depicting how the process giving birth to free will would look like? If not, what basis is there for believing in free will outside of an illusion based your own limited perspective and the horrible, soul-crushing burden that comes with accepting that there is no such thing.
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Ultra hard determinism boyo
no a beer cannot drive a BMW nor i can become a chad.
tbh its all brownian motion
Everything is predetermined and every moment in time is happening simultaneously.
This
B
I notice a pattern where hardcore determinists tend to be staunch materialists. It happens so often that I think it's basically a given, based on that worldview.
We've had our free will stolen from us. Humans can't do anything without Jewish approval.
The fact that we didn’t get to choose to be born proves there is no freewill
B
The Heisenberg uncertainty principle should (in theory) put this question to rest.
What It says?
it states that you cannot determine the speed of a particle or an electron, same logic can be applied to " free will " I presume.
B
Position and momentum, both of which are probabilistic.
You are free to choose within all the possibilities life hasn't fucked for you.
Meh
besides in the principle It's not that the values are inherently probabilistic, rather, it's the simultaneous measurement of both properties that introduces uncertainty.
the uncertainty and many weird quantum phenomenons like wave particle duality are more of a cause and effect case scenarios triggered by an observer/observing interaction, while other ones are just being driven by entropy which attenuates to nothing as it is predicted correctly.
idk what's the correlation between those.
besides in the principle It's not that the values are inherently probabilistic, rather, it's the simultaneous measurement of both properties that introduces uncertainty.
the uncertainty and many weird quantum phenomenons like wave particle duality are more of a cause and effect case scenarios triggered by an observer/observing interaction, while other ones are just being driven by entropy which attenuates to nothing as it is predicted correctly.
B
If the nature of a system is probabilistic, then the cause-effect chains are not deterministic. If cause x has, say, a 30% chance to result in effect y, then we cannot say that "x causes y." We have to caveat it with the chance of it happening, that x could cause other things, and that y could be caused by other things.
But this isn't enough to conclude that a mechanism for free will exists, only that it can possibly exist, since causes and effects are not a linear chain in a probabilistic system. It also doesn't mean that free will must therefore inherently be probabilistic, which is a common error that opponents of free will make.
I've posited before that whatever mechanism free will could have must be a causal generator that is independent from external causes within the domain of causes that can be generated in the possible decision space (which is always finite). This allows for volition and free agency.
In plain English this means that the thing that gives you your free will (whatever that is) can't itself have a cause that affects the choices you can make.
The wave nature of particles means that their behavior has to be interpreted probabilistically.
the things that do cause either have a cause or aren't necessarily an effect but an entity that is a cause. I see the system completely causal as chaos, as unexpected as it is is not out of the system, neither it's progenitor but merely part of it
the equations purpose is to find one state depending on another state when both are dependant on in one equation. you can calculate the momentum of something slower and pinpoint the position of something bigger not at the same time for both, but for each as you like and all the time.
it does not necessarily impose uncertainty on everything quantum but more so in this calculation.
B
Then in that case the system isn't "free," or causally independent. Think of free will as a sandbox. Your choices are free within the sandbox, but you can't make any choices outside of it. I can't, for example, exercise free will to repel against the gravitational force and start levitating or flying. The constraints of the sandbox in this case are the physical laws, as well as the biological limitations of the body.
If you can't predict either of those two (position and momentum of particles) - something so fundamental - with absolute certainty, then it naturally implies that everything is in a state of uncertainty.
well it never was imo
I believe it never was independent nor it had it's own free will. an entity beyond dimensions has true free will and it exercises that free will as it wishes. one beyond understanding probably since the free will without constraints to the sandbox is something people in the sandbox will never experience.
it could be an implication to something unknown. you have to keep in mind that quantum mechanics is a theory,one thing, and all the knowledge humans reached has only put up a mere speck or so of the existence. the rest remains completely unknown.
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