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Cognitive Behavioural Therapy: Organized Self-Deception and the antithesis of the Blackpill

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So I don't often post here but I've been thinking about this for a while. Today I'm going to redpill you on what Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is.

What is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy?​

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is the most popular therapy technique today. It's stated goals are to allow patients to identify "distortions in their thinking" and better understand reality. Here's a link to an information guide from the Centre of Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH) I'll be referencing during this post.

https://camh.ca/-/media/files/guides-and-publications/cbt-guide-en.pdf

In reality, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to allow you to do the following, in order:
  1. Recognize negative perceptions you have about yourself and reality
  2. Dismiss these perceptions as false by using premade refutations
  3. Believe that you can control your circumstances
  4. Eventually change your "core beliefs" so that you no longer think your circumstances are bad
Note that "truth" enters nowhere into the equation. The guide I've linked above makes many mentions about "rationality" and how certain thoughts are illogical. These are lies. The fundamental belief about Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is that you, the patient, need to recognize that if you perceive reality negatively, you are irrational. It does not matter whether your perception of reality is true or false. The fact that it is making you sad means that you are insane.

The problem with this, of course, is that most people are not able to bend their perception of reality to make "2+2=5", so to speak, solely because believing that 2+2=5 makes them feel good. So Cognitive Behavioural Therapy works by removing your ability to think for yourself. It does this by convincing you that the negative thoughts you are having about yourself are "automatic"; i.e. not within your control. It then categorizes many common types of thoughts and provides ways to refute them.

Peter the Incel​

Let's go back to the CAMH guide and get an example. Chapter 3 mentions Peter, an incel. I'll copy and paste the dialogue here for people who don't want to click on the PDF.

Therapist: Can you think of a situation in the past week when you felt upset?
Peter: I was sitting on the subway and noticing all of the couples together.
Therapist: And what feelings came up for you as you were noticing the couples?
Peter: I was feeling sad and angry.
Therapist: And what were you thinking about as you were feeling sad and angry?
Peter: I was thinking everyone seems to have someone in their life but me, and it’s just not fair.
Therapist: And if it’s true that everyone seems to have someone but you, do you think this says something about you?
Peter: Yah, that I’m a loser and will always be alone.
Therapist: And what did you do when you were thinking and feeling this way?
Peter: After a while I couldn’t take it anymore so I got off the subway even though I hadn’t reached my stop yet. I went home and just sat on my bed thinking about all of this.
Peter is sad. He recognizes that most people are in happy relationships. Peter himself is not in a relationship. He is sad and angry because of this, as Peter values being in a relationship. Peter is having a normal reaction to not being able to fulfill his goals in life. He feels as if he will never be in a relationship. Let's analyze what the guide says are questions a therapist might ask.
“Do you know anyone that you like and respect who is not currently in a relationship?”
“Do you have any past experiences in romantic relationships?”
“If you had a good friend that had the same thoughts about himself or herself, what would you say to that friend?”
“Are you possibly discounting any life experiences to suggest that you will not be completely alone?”
“Are you potentially blaming yourself for something that you do not have complete control of?”
Note what isn't said. Question 1, for example, says that Peter should look at other people who aren't currently in a relationship. This is designed to make Peter feel as if his condition is temporary, or that it might change. Sure, you might not currently be in a relationship, but maybe you'll find someone to be with in the future!

Let's analyze Questions 2 and 4. They look logical, Peter should look at all of the evidence, right? But look at what isn't said. The therapist isn't asking Peter to look at all of his past, nor is the therapist asking Peter to examine any of the evidence that supports his current belief that he will always be alone. The therapist is just asking Peter to look at events in his life that go against his beliefs. This is called "cherry-picking" as a logical fallacy, and involves only looking at the evidence that supports a particular view. Peter should only think about the one time he held hands with a girl when he was 10 years old. Peter should not think about the hundreds of times he's been rejected in his life. He should look at his "girlfriend" he had for 3 months in middle school, not the 12 years he spent alone.

Question 3 is simpler, Peter should try to comfort himself and not feel sad like he might comfort a friend that was feeling sad. Nobody is going to tell their friend "it's over give up".

Question 5 is nebulously worded. On the surface, it looks like the therapist is trying to tell Peter that he might not have control over his inability to be in a relationship, In actuality, it assumes that Peter has partial control over his situation, and tries to make Peter feel as if the situation is "not his fault", or that he didn't choose to be an incel. This lays the foundation for the next step of cognitive behavioural therapy, where Peter will discover that his lack of choice to be in a relationship means that he really chose not to be in a relationship.

What all of these questions have in common is that they are designed to change Peter's beliefs, by making Peter himself recognize that his thinking is wrong. Peter's thinking is being replaced here by the therapist's, with carefully controlled questions designed to make Peter think what is necessary. Read this doublethink quote from CAMH that agrees.
"The goal here is not to challenge Peter’s thinking but rather to move him to a questioning mode and to consider the accuracy of his automatic thoughts based on evidence from his life."
Peter's beliefs aren't being challenged here, Peter is just being made to "question" them. This is illogical, "questioning" and "challenging" a belief are the same thing to the point that "Reflect on a time when you questioned or challenged a belief" was a question on the US common application for universities last year. [1] But this misses that the goal here isn't for the therapist to challenge Peter's beliefs, but for Peter to automatically recognize his wrongthink and correct it.

Identifying and correcting cognitive distortions​

This leads us into step number 2 of the four step guide I wrote above. Peter the Incel isn't going to be with his therapist 24/7. He won't always have someone to think for him. So to help prevent wrongthink, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy relies on identifying common depressing thoughts and trains you to remove them.

For instance, "Overgeneralization", which in reality refers to any attempt to generalize your experiences and extrapolate future events. Let's say you installed Tinder and got 0 matches. The women on Tinder obviously thought you weren't attractive, so you might be tempted to say that it's possible that women in general will find you unattractive. This is when Cognitive Behavioural Therapy steps in, and you come up with a justification that "Tinder isn't real life! Real life isn't a meat market! I should try Bumble/etc instead." (notice how many normies say this? I wonder why).

Or "Black-or-white thinking", which refers to any attempt to categorize your experiences into a binary. e.g., being a failure for not having sex, as opposed to being successful for having sex. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to step in there, and tell you that there are plenty of different experiences and there's no such thing as being "successful" or "failing". The reason why this is so powerful is because "binary oppositions" are what all human thought are structured on (t. Saussure [2]). By ignoring binaries and pretending they don't exist, your thoughts will lose all meaning and no longer make sense. By eliminating the concepts of "success" and "failure" you will not feel like a failure.

By creating catchy names and complex systems, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy allows you to identify and destroy rational thinking. After the ability to recognize wrongthink is firmly ingrained in your head, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy will teach you to...

Believe that you have control​

Once the ability to wrongthink has been removed from your head, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to make you have a feeling of control. At this point, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy starts to implement "rightthink" so to speak. For instance, in the CAMH document, Nancy wanted to drive up to her cottage, but was scared of having a panic attack. So she creates a table that lists the situation she's in, the "automatic thoughts" (i.e. wrongthink) she had about the situation, and the emotions she was having. This allows her to target those and feel like she's in control.

This is no accident and it's why Cognitive Behavioural Therapy stresses the importance of worksheets and homework. It structures your thoughts (homework is often called the "thought record") to align with how therapists want you to think and more importantly lets you feel like you're in control. You'll see this in a lot of the advice given from normies to incels, like "go to the gym" or "work on your personality". The goal here is to make you feel like you're in control of your inability to have sex, regardless of if you actually are in control or not. if you don't believe me, here's a direct quote from the document:
The cbt therapist can then help you to question and evaluate these assumptions and beliefs and to generate less distressing, alternative viewpoints as they occur in upsetting situations.
Structure your thoughts and soon you can generate "alternative viewpoints" for yourself!

Changing your core beliefs​

The ultimate goal of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy though, is to change something that's called your "core beliefs". This means refiguring your value system to prevent yourself from becoming depressed ever again. Let's say one of your life goals is fulfilling sexual relationships. The ultimate goal of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is to remove that as one of your goals. That's why "reformed incels" say that sex really isn't that important anyways. They've reached that stage, and no longer want sex because CBT has convinced them not to. Of course, this is tough. That's why the ability of choice is so heavily emphasized. It is far easier to say you don't value sex if you're choosing not to have it, than to say you don't value sex when you can't have it.

Once this core assumption is gone, the wrongthink that stems from it disappears. A core tenent of cognitive behavioural therapy is that your core beliefs spawn these negative thoughts, and once they are changed, wrongthink disappears as well. After all, if you no longer want sex, why would you be upset about being incel?
 
RecessedChinCel

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Didn’t read all but high IQ post will read later :feelshmm::feelshmm::feelshmm::feelshmm:
 
KingChemist

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LOL I remember my school sending me to CAMH a while back. It was exactly for this lol. I was supposed to take a CBT course.
 
the virgin shepherd

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So basically the antithesis of Freuds Free-Association but for self-proposed intellectuals.

I plan ony writing an aesthetical piace titled Free-Dissociation which dwells on this Idea but embraces a more holistic conceptualization.
 
extremegamer

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what's wrong with changing your core belief of needing fulfilling sexual relationships. i've done it. i still need it but not nearly as bad.
 
Cristo

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I see. A truecel in a r9k thread yesterday was talking about something like this.
How other people’s opinions cannot have the ability to interfere with his inner state, protected by a huge ego based on his status. Even as an old virgin NEET.
Basically convincing himself that if it makes him feel good it may as well be real.
Logical self-imposed deception is extremely cucked.:blackpill::feelsthink:
 
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Deleted member 36467

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KingChemist said:
LOL I remember my school sending me to CAMH a while back.
I was sent to CAMHS and believed their bullshit platitudes. All therapists can do is to gaslight you into conformity.
 
KingChemist

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Boba said:
I was sent to CAMHS and believed their bullshit platitudes. All therapists can do is to gaslight you into conformity.

To be fair I felt a bit better after the session. Realizing that it's not my fault I can't force someone to be in a relationship with me helped.
 
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RecessedChinCel said:
Didn’t read all but high IQ post will read later :feelshmm::feelshmm::feelshmm::feelshmm:
 
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Good run down on CBT. My psychologist straight up told me it only works if you buy into it. He said that being able to pick apart the logical flaws in CBT makes it extremely difficult to treat someone so he gave up on it. It's certainly voluntary brainwashing. I think the point of therapy though isn't learning to accept your life so much but about figuring out ways to cope with it
 
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Atavistic Autist @Atavistic Autist
 
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Bazinga said:
So I don't often post here but I've been thinking about this for a while. Today I'm going to redpill you on what Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is.

What is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy?​

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is the most popular therapy technique today. It's stated goals are to allow patients to identify "distortions in their thinking" and better understand reality. Here's a link to an information guide from the Centre of Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH) I'll be referencing during this post.

https://camh.ca/-/media/files/guides-and-publications/cbt-guide-en.pdf

In reality, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to allow you to do the following, in order:
  1. Recognize negative perceptions you have about yourself and reality
  2. Dismiss these perceptions as false by using premade refutations
  3. Believe that you can control your circumstances
  4. Eventually change your "core beliefs" so that you no longer think your circumstances are bad
Note that "truth" enters nowhere into the equation. The guide I've linked above makes many mentions about "rationality" and how certain thoughts are illogical. These are lies. The fundamental belief about Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is that you, the patient, need to recognize that if you perceive reality negatively, you are irrational. It does not matter whether your perception of reality is true or false. The fact that it is making you sad means that you are insane.

The problem with this, of course, is that most people are not able to bend their perception of reality to make "2+2=5", so to speak, solely because believing that 2+2=5 makes them feel good. So Cognitive Behavioural Therapy works by removing your ability to think for yourself. It does this by convincing you that the negative thoughts you are having about yourself are "automatic"; i.e. not within your control. It then categorizes many common types of thoughts and provides ways to refute them.

Peter the Incel​

Let's go back to the CAMH guide and get an example. Chapter 3 mentions Peter, an incel. I'll copy and paste the dialogue here for people who don't want to click on the PDF.











Peter is sad. He recognizes that most people are in happy relationships. Peter himself is not in a relationship. He is sad and angry because of this, as Peter values being in a relationship. Peter is having a normal reaction to not being able to fulfill his goals in life. He feels as if he will never be in a relationship. Let's analyze what the guide says are questions a therapist might ask.





Note what isn't said. Question 1, for example, says that Peter should look at other people who aren't currently in a relationship. This is designed to make Peter feel as if his condition is temporary, or that it might change. Sure, you might not currently be in a relationship, but maybe you'll find someone to be with in the future!

Let's analyze Questions 2 and 4. They look logical, Peter should look at all of the evidence, right? But look at what isn't said. The therapist isn't asking Peter to look at all of his past, nor is the therapist asking Peter to examine any of the evidence that supports his current belief that he will always be alone. The therapist is just asking Peter to look at events in his life that go against his beliefs. This is called "cherry-picking" as a logical fallacy, and involves only looking at the evidence that supports a particular view. Peter should only think about the one time he held hands with a girl when he was 10 years old. Peter should not think about the hundreds of times he's been rejected in his life. He should look at his "girlfriend" he had for 3 months in middle school, not the 12 years he spent alone.

Question 3 is simpler, Peter should try to comfort himself and not feel sad like he might comfort a friend that was feeling sad. Nobody is going to tell their friend "it's over give up".

Question 5 is nebulously worded. On the surface, it looks like the therapist is trying to tell Peter that he might not have control over his inability to be in a relationship, In actuality, it assumes that Peter has partial control over his situation, and tries to make Peter feel as if the situation is "not his fault", or that he didn't choose to be an incel. This lays the foundation for the next step of cognitive behavioural therapy, where Peter will discover that his lack of choice to be in a relationship means that he really chose not to be in a relationship.

What all of these questions have in common is that they are designed to change Peter's beliefs, by making Peter himself recognize that his thinking is wrong. Peter's thinking is being replaced here by the therapist's, with carefully controlled questions designed to make Peter think what is necessary. Read this doublethink quote from CAMH that agrees.

Peter's beliefs aren't being challenged here, Peter is just being made to "question" them. This is illogical, "questioning" and "challenging" a belief are the same thing to the point that "Reflect on a time when you questioned or challenged a belief" was a question on the US common application for universities last year. [1] But this misses that the goal here isn't for the therapist to challenge Peter's beliefs, but for Peter to automatically recognize his wrongthink and correct it.

Identifying and correcting cognitive distortions​

This leads us into step number 2 of the four step guide I wrote above. Peter the Incel isn't going to be with his therapist 24/7. He won't always have someone to think for him. So to help prevent wrongthink, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy relies on identifying common depressing thoughts and trains you to remove them.

For instance, "Overgeneralization", which in reality refers to any attempt to generalize your experiences and extrapolate future events. Let's say you installed Tinder and got 0 matches. The women on Tinder obviously thought you weren't attractive, so you might be tempted to say that it's possible that women in general will find you unattractive. This is when Cognitive Behavioural Therapy steps in, and you come up with a justification that "Tinder isn't real life! Real life isn't a meat market! I should try Bumble/etc instead." (notice how many normies say this? I wonder why).

Or "Black-or-white thinking", which refers to any attempt to categorize your experiences into a binary. e.g., being a failure for not having sex, as opposed to being successful for having sex. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to step in there, and tell you that there are plenty of different experiences and there's no such thing as being "successful" or "failing". The reason why this is so powerful is because "binary oppositions" are what all human thought are structured on (t. Saussure [2]). By ignoring binaries and pretending they don't exist, your thoughts will lose all meaning and no longer make sense. By eliminating the concepts of "success" and "failure" you will not feel like a failure.

By creating catchy names and complex systems, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy allows you to identify and destroy rational thinking. After the ability to recognize wrongthink is firmly ingrained in your head, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy will teach you to...

Believe that you have control​

Once the ability to wrongthink has been removed from your head, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to make you have a feeling of control. At this point, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy starts to implement "rightthink" so to speak. For instance, in the CAMH document, Nancy wanted to drive up to her cottage, but was scared of having a panic attack. So she creates a table that lists the situation she's in, the "automatic thoughts" (i.e. wrongthink) she had about the situation, and the emotions she was having. This allows her to target those and feel like she's in control.

This is no accident and it's why Cognitive Behavioural Therapy stresses the importance of worksheets and homework. It structures your thoughts (homework is often called the "thought record") to align with how therapists want you to think and more importantly lets you feel like you're in control. You'll see this in a lot of the advice given from normies to incels, like "go to the gym" or "work on your personality". The goal here is to make you feel like you're in control of your inability to have sex, regardless of if you actually are in control or not. if you don't believe me, here's a direct quote from the document:

Structure your thoughts and soon you can generate "alternative viewpoints" for yourself!

Changing your core beliefs​

The ultimate goal of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy though, is to change something that's called your "core beliefs". This means refiguring your value system to prevent yourself from becoming depressed ever again. Let's say one of your life goals is fulfilling sexual relationships. The ultimate goal of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is to remove that as one of your goals. That's why "reformed incels" say that sex really isn't that important anyways. They've reached that stage, and no longer want sex because CBT has convinced them not to. Of course, this is tough. That's why the ability of choice is so heavily emphasized. It is far easier to say you don't value sex if you're choosing not to have it, than to say you don't value sex when you can't have it.

Once this core assumption is gone, the wrongthink that stems from it disappears. A core tenent of cognitive behavioural therapy is that your core beliefs spawn these negative thoughts, and once they are changed, wrongthink disappears as well. After all, if you no longer want sex, why would you be upset about being incel?
1. Cock & Ball Torture
 
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Fat Link @Fat Link AmIjustDreaming @AmIjustDreaming pin this shit. Everybody needs to see the scam that's CBT.
 
Atavistic Autist

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calimero said:
Atavistic Autist @Atavistic Autist
It's fitting that I should read this thread today because I just quit my longstanding CBT therapist after no longer being able to bear their dogmatic bullshit. Like just hours ago :feelsgah:

Unlike E @Ehwhatever's therapist, it's clear that mine would never stop scheduling new appointments until I told them to stop. Because therapy is primarily a money-making industry, and the therapist has student loans to pay.

But what makes CBT so extraordinary compared to other forms of therapy is how vapid and dull it is. One's rich, internal life, replete with varied emotions and thoughts, is crudely imposed upon by a mediocre liberal arts major who desires to replace your personality with their own (a composite of sterile textbooks that they've read and cookie-cutter soy bugman assumptions).

Even as an autistic person, I found the mechanistic nature of CBT to be stilted and uninspiring af. Not to mention unhelpful, given that autistic systemizers like me are already good at logic and rationality, and don't take kindly to hypocrites who pose as beacons of reason.
 
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Atavistic Autist said:
It's fitting that I should read this thread today because I just quit my longstanding CBT therapist after no longer being able to bear their dogmatic bullshit. Like just hours ago :feelsgah:

Unlike E @Ehwhatever's therapist, it's clear that mine would never stop scheduling new appointments until I told them to stop. Because therapy is primarily a money-making industry, and the therapist has student loans to pay.

But what makes CBT so extraordinary compared to other forms of therapy is how vapid and dull it is. One's rich, internal life, replete with varied emotions and thoughts, is crudely imposed upon by a mediocre liberal arts major who desires to replace your personality with their own (a composite of sterile textbooks that they've read and cookie-cutter soy bugman assumptions).

Even as an autistic person, I found the mechanistic nature of CBT to be stilted and uninspiring af. Not to mention unhelpful, given that autistic systemizers like me are already good at logic and rationality, and don't take kindly to hypocrites who pose as beacons of reason.
Don't get me wrong. My therapist would gladly keep scheduling appointments as well until I got fed up and left. I was seeing help for problems beyond depression like trauma and anxiety. I agree a huge flaw with therapy is that it discounts the importance of emotional experience though.

In the worst case scenario your therapist will try to gaslight you into believing your emotional response to certain events is irrational or unwarranted which would be considered a form of emotional abuse if it wasn't coming from a mental health "professional".
 
Fat Link

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based_meme said:
Fat Link @Fat Link AmIjustDreaming @AmIjustDreaming pin this shit. Everybody needs to see the scam that's CBT.
Done!:feelsclown::feelsPop:
 
Just talk to her

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I've had some experience with CBT but I could never articulate succinctly why it just felt like a load of tosh to me until this thread. Good read and I'm glad I never invested more time into it than I did.
 
Deleted member 20073

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I don't think it works at all, at worst you're just wasting your time. psychiatry is far more dangerous.
 
Mentally lost cel

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OwlGod said:
I don't think it works at all, at worst you're just wasting your time. psychiatry is far more dangerous.
It doesn’t,I know
OwlGod said:
psychiatry is far more dangerous.
Very very sick and making people sleep and get Bluepilled
It’s just gigacope Bluepill , which might backfire
 
Deleted member 20073

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Ehwhatever said:
Good run down on CBT. My psychologist straight up told me it only works if you buy into it. He said that being able to pick apart the logical flaws in CBT makes it extremely difficult to treat someone so he gave up on it. It's certainly voluntary brainwashing. I think the point of therapy though isn't learning to accept your life so much but about figuring out ways to cope with it

I think it's impossible for CBT to work.
you just sit there, and starts dialoguing with someone who has no ties to you, zero emotional attachment to what she or he says, zero effects onto the person. altering or restructuring thoughts is impossible either way. thoughts are automatically spontaneously generated, and anyone who thinks it's easy to do that, really is a moron. if it was so easy, then OCD patients would barely exist.
,,successful" stories of therapy or psychological treatments are mostly of females, as they've a predisposition, they're there to gain further reinforcement, validation of all their momentarily anteriorly set feelings, further strengthening all the encircling paranoia around about themselves until their Ego ignates beyond proportions.
 
watcher

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Brutal. In order to feel OK you have to lie to yourself (aka cope) and psychologists are nothing but frauds that teach you to lie to yourself.


I hate reality
 
Lv99_BixNood

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I've had to take some CBT sessions because I have severe OCD, and in this case it actually helped me. I think that for mental illnesses such as OCD therapy is actually legit (because the intrusive thoughts you get from OCD are fundamentally irrational and have nothing to do with reality), but the problem is that people think CBT should be applied to every kind of negative thought now, regardless whether these thoughts are actually irrational or not. Like a lot of "depression" is just people living in objectively shitty circumstances (like inceldom) and their negative reactions to these situations are completely sound and logical. And attemting to apply CBT here is when the whole thing goes from therapy to brainwashing and self-delusion.
 
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OwlGod said:
I think it's impossible for CBT to work.
you just sit there, and starts dialoguing with someone who has no ties to you, zero emotional attachment to what she or he says, zero effects onto the person. altering or restructuring thoughts is impossible either way. thoughts are automatically spontaneously generated, and anyone who thinks it's easy to do that, really is a moron. if it was so easy, then OCD patients would barely exist.
,,successful" stories of therapy or psychological treatments are mostly of females, as they've a predisposition, they're there to gain further reinforcement, validation of all their momentarily anteriorly set feelings, further strengthening all the encircling paranoia around about themselves until their Ego ignates beyond proportions.
For what it's worth I understand what you mean by thoughts being automatically generated. There's scientific evidence to support that thoughts are created before we're even aware or able to act on them. It brings up the question of whether we really have free will. Still, I'm hoping that EMDR therapy will help. It's supposed to help reprogram your brain to help with trauma which I think a lot of people here have. It's probably a huge cope but I'll try anything to not feel like roping at this point
 
Atavistic Autist

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Ehwhatever said:
Don't get me wrong. My therapist would gladly keep scheduling appointments as well until I got fed up and left. I was seeing help for problems beyond depression like trauma and anxiety. I agree a huge flaw with therapy is that it discounts the importance of emotional experience though.

In the worst case scenario your therapist will try to gaslight you into believing your emotional response to certain events is irrational or unwarranted which would be considered a form of emotional abuse if it wasn't coming from a mental health "professional".
Ah, so the point is that mine would never do anything but CBT, because that's how he's remunerated by insurance.
 
cvury

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Cock n Ball Torture
 
FlyFace

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Bazinga said:
This is called "cherry-picking" as a logical fallacy, and involves only looking at the evidence that supports a particular view. Peter should only think about the one time he held hands with a girl when he was 10 years old. Peter should not think about the hundreds of times he's been rejected in his life. He should look at his "girlfriend" he had for 3 months in middle school, not the 12 years he spent alone.
An exception will never break the pattern of the rules.
cvury said:
Cock n Ball Torture
Bazinga said:
This lays the foundation for the next step of cognitive behavioural therapy, where Peter will discover that his lack of choice to be in a relationship means that he really chose not to be in a relationship.
Ridiculous.. social animals don't just one day choose not to be social. There has to be a stimulus event that changes that animals perception
Bazinga said:
It is far easier to say you don't value sex if you're choosing not to have it, than to say you don't value sex when you can't have it.
It's funny because I don't value Life because I can't have it. Funny how that works. Still not going to go mental and start killing for no reason. Smarter things to do.
 
SchrodingersDick

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Great post. Should be pinned forever for all newcels to read.

I’ve been saying the same albeit in different terms

“Just think better thoughts bro!”
“Just stop thinking those thoughts bro!
“Just change your worldview so your problems are no longer problems bro!”
“Suspend object permanence and just ignore the problems entirely bro!”
 
Kaisercel

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CBT can be useful in some cases, like for people with OCDs, i.e. with irrational obsessions and compulsions, but I don't see how it could help with the distress caused by real problems, like being incel
 
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Kaisercel said:
CBT can be useful in some cases, like for people with OCDs, i.e. with irrational obsessions and compulsions, but I don't see how it could help with the distress caused by real problems, like being incel
It does help with the distress that's the whole point of the post. You just deny the existence of your problems and that works to prevent you from feeling bad. You're not an incel, you're just someone who hasn't found the right person yet. You repeat this process as you become a cuckold and a joke to everyone around you. Why do you think inceltears users have no self awareness? Cognitive behavioral therapy.
 
unuser

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I have always known it's bullshit, but talking with a woman outside of family can be a bit refreshing, even if she's just bulshitting. Because of this I frequently leave the sessions feeling lighter (at least for the 10min travel back home).

I wouldn't pay for this, but my parents pay and it makes them feel better, so :feelscomfy:
 
Vrthraghna

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Another word I like to use for therapy is "liberal brainwashing"
 
cvh1991

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Bazinga said:
So I don't often post here but I've been thinking about this for a while. Today I'm going to redpill you on what Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is.

What is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy?​

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is the most popular therapy technique today. It's stated goals are to allow patients to identify "distortions in their thinking" and better understand reality. Here's a link to an information guide from the Centre of Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH) I'll be referencing during this post.

https://camh.ca/-/media/files/guides-and-publications/cbt-guide-en.pdf

In reality, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to allow you to do the following, in order:
  1. Recognize negative perceptions you have about yourself and reality
  2. Dismiss these perceptions as false by using premade refutations
  3. Believe that you can control your circumstances
  4. Eventually change your "core beliefs" so that you no longer think your circumstances are bad
Note that "truth" enters nowhere into the equation. The guide I've linked above makes many mentions about "rationality" and how certain thoughts are illogical. These are lies. The fundamental belief about Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is that you, the patient, need to recognize that if you perceive reality negatively, you are irrational. It does not matter whether your perception of reality is true or false. The fact that it is making you sad means that you are insane.

The problem with this, of course, is that most people are not able to bend their perception of reality to make "2+2=5", so to speak, solely because believing that 2+2=5 makes them feel good. So Cognitive Behavioural Therapy works by removing your ability to think for yourself. It does this by convincing you that the negative thoughts you are having about yourself are "automatic"; i.e. not within your control. It then categorizes many common types of thoughts and provides ways to refute them.

Peter the Incel​

Let's go back to the CAMH guide and get an example. Chapter 3 mentions Peter, an incel. I'll copy and paste the dialogue here for people who don't want to click on the PDF.











Peter is sad. He recognizes that most people are in happy relationships. Peter himself is not in a relationship. He is sad and angry because of this, as Peter values being in a relationship. Peter is having a normal reaction to not being able to fulfill his goals in life. He feels as if he will never be in a relationship. Let's analyze what the guide says are questions a therapist might ask.





Note what isn't said. Question 1, for example, says that Peter should look at other people who aren't currently in a relationship. This is designed to make Peter feel as if his condition is temporary, or that it might change. Sure, you might not currently be in a relationship, but maybe you'll find someone to be with in the future!

Let's analyze Questions 2 and 4. They look logical, Peter should look at all of the evidence, right? But look at what isn't said. The therapist isn't asking Peter to look at all of his past, nor is the therapist asking Peter to examine any of the evidence that supports his current belief that he will always be alone. The therapist is just asking Peter to look at events in his life that go against his beliefs. This is called "cherry-picking" as a logical fallacy, and involves only looking at the evidence that supports a particular view. Peter should only think about the one time he held hands with a girl when he was 10 years old. Peter should not think about the hundreds of times he's been rejected in his life. He should look at his "girlfriend" he had for 3 months in middle school, not the 12 years he spent alone.

Question 3 is simpler, Peter should try to comfort himself and not feel sad like he might comfort a friend that was feeling sad. Nobody is going to tell their friend "it's over give up".

Question 5 is nebulously worded. On the surface, it looks like the therapist is trying to tell Peter that he might not have control over his inability to be in a relationship, In actuality, it assumes that Peter has partial control over his situation, and tries to make Peter feel as if the situation is "not his fault", or that he didn't choose to be an incel. This lays the foundation for the next step of cognitive behavioural therapy, where Peter will discover that his lack of choice to be in a relationship means that he really chose not to be in a relationship.

What all of these questions have in common is that they are designed to change Peter's beliefs, by making Peter himself recognize that his thinking is wrong. Peter's thinking is being replaced here by the therapist's, with carefully controlled questions designed to make Peter think what is necessary. Read this doublethink quote from CAMH that agrees.

Peter's beliefs aren't being challenged here, Peter is just being made to "question" them. This is illogical, "questioning" and "challenging" a belief are the same thing to the point that "Reflect on a time when you questioned or challenged a belief" was a question on the US common application for universities last year. [1] But this misses that the goal here isn't for the therapist to challenge Peter's beliefs, but for Peter to automatically recognize his wrongthink and correct it.

Identifying and correcting cognitive distortions​

This leads us into step number 2 of the four step guide I wrote above. Peter the Incel isn't going to be with his therapist 24/7. He won't always have someone to think for him. So to help prevent wrongthink, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy relies on identifying common depressing thoughts and trains you to remove them.

For instance, "Overgeneralization", which in reality refers to any attempt to generalize your experiences and extrapolate future events. Let's say you installed Tinder and got 0 matches. The women on Tinder obviously thought you weren't attractive, so you might be tempted to say that it's possible that women in general will find you unattractive. This is when Cognitive Behavioural Therapy steps in, and you come up with a justification that "Tinder isn't real life! Real life isn't a meat market! I should try Bumble/etc instead." (notice how many normies say this? I wonder why).

Or "Black-or-white thinking", which refers to any attempt to categorize your experiences into a binary. e.g., being a failure for not having sex, as opposed to being successful for having sex. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to step in there, and tell you that there are plenty of different experiences and there's no such thing as being "successful" or "failing". The reason why this is so powerful is because "binary oppositions" are what all human thought are structured on (t. Saussure [2]). By ignoring binaries and pretending they don't exist, your thoughts will lose all meaning and no longer make sense. By eliminating the concepts of "success" and "failure" you will not feel like a failure.

By creating catchy names and complex systems, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy allows you to identify and destroy rational thinking. After the ability to recognize wrongthink is firmly ingrained in your head, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy will teach you to...

Believe that you have control​

Once the ability to wrongthink has been removed from your head, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to make you have a feeling of control. At this point, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy starts to implement "rightthink" so to speak. For instance, in the CAMH document, Nancy wanted to drive up to her cottage, but was scared of having a panic attack. So she creates a table that lists the situation she's in, the "automatic thoughts" (i.e. wrongthink) she had about the situation, and the emotions she was having. This allows her to target those and feel like she's in control.

This is no accident and it's why Cognitive Behavioural Therapy stresses the importance of worksheets and homework. It structures your thoughts (homework is often called the "thought record") to align with how therapists want you to think and more importantly lets you feel like you're in control. You'll see this in a lot of the advice given from normies to incels, like "go to the gym" or "work on your personality". The goal here is to make you feel like you're in control of your inability to have sex, regardless of if you actually are in control or not. if you don't believe me, here's a direct quote from the document:

Structure your thoughts and soon you can generate "alternative viewpoints" for yourself!

Changing your core beliefs​

The ultimate goal of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy though, is to change something that's called your "core beliefs". This means refiguring your value system to prevent yourself from becoming depressed ever again. Let's say one of your life goals is fulfilling sexual relationships. The ultimate goal of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is to remove that as one of your goals. That's why "reformed incels" say that sex really isn't that important anyways. They've reached that stage, and no longer want sex because CBT has convinced them not to. Of course, this is tough. That's why the ability of choice is so heavily emphasized. It is far easier to say you don't value sex if you're choosing not to have it, than to say you don't value sex when you can't have it.

Once this core assumption is gone, the wrongthink that stems from it disappears. A core tenent of cognitive behavioural therapy is that your core beliefs spawn these negative thoughts, and once they are changed, wrongthink disappears as well. After all, if you no longer want sex, why would you be upset about being incel?
Frankly therapy is a waste of time, especially if you’re a man. Women have taken over social “science” and therapy and have bent the institutions to their bias.
 
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"Therapy" is really just organized and systematic gaslighting.
 
BrazilianLambda

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Ehwhatever said:
Good run down on CBT. My psychologist straight up told me it only works if you buy into it. He said that being able to pick apart the logical flaws in CBT makes it extremely difficult to treat someone so he gave up on it. It's certainly voluntary brainwashing. I think the point of therapy though isn't learning to accept your life so much but about figuring out ways to cope with it

Where did you find such a based psychologist, lol?
based_meme said:
Fat Link @Fat Link AmIjustDreaming @AmIjustDreaming pin this shit. Everybody needs to see the scam that's CBT.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it a scam because the main premise of CBT is that a patient may have a distorted view of reality. If that's the case, CBT can be effective. Of course, this doesn't apply to based incels like us because we know that our issues aren't imaginary.

OwlGod said:
you just sit there, and starts dialoguing with someone who has no ties to you, zero emotional attachment to what she or he says, zero

Akchually, you don't want a therapost that has ties/emotional attachments to you. That would be like getting a bluepilled advice from your parents. A therapist must be objective in every way. (well, at least in theory; most of them are still bluepilled cucks)
 
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Emba

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cvury said:
Cock n Ball Torture
Yeah! So it isn't that? Wtf!

I was robbed!
 
MaxZM98

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Question 3: I would definitely tell my incel friend It's over. If he's sub 5, it'd hurt him even more to keep trying in futility
 
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BrazilianLambda said:
Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it a scam because the main premise of CBT is that a patient may have a distorted view of reality. If that's the case, CBT can be effective. Of course, this doesn't apply to based incels like us because we know that our issues aren't imaginary.
The main premise of CBT isn't that a patient may have a distorted view of reality, it's that the patient does have a distorted view of reality. Any thought that makes you feel worse about yourself is automatically irrational and any thought that makes you feel better about yourself is automatically rational.

CBT is always effective because the truth isn't that you feel bad because you're an incel, you feel bad because you know that you're an incel.

By simply denying that you're unattractive, denying that you're unable to get a gf, and considering any thoughts you have about the subject as "wrongthink", you will no longer be depressed. The goal is to transform you into one of the cucks who say "I just haven't found the right person yet" or "I could get a gf if I wanted to but I choose not to" or "I really don't need a relationship" because it doesn't matter that none of that is true, by believing it, you won't be depressed anymore.

That's the reason why CBT's success rates are so high and why it's the best method of psychotherapy. It always works because it doesn't actually rely on fixing the patient's problems (which is usually really difficult/impossible). It relies on convincing the patient to deny that their problems actually exist or that if they do exist, that they're not actually problems that need solving.
 
LOLI BREEDING

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extremely high IQ greycel thread. botb worthy SergeantIncel @SergeantIncel

all society cares about is the cattle accepting their fate as obedient wagecucks :feelsaww:
HeimatVertrieben said:
1. Cock & Ball Torture
Bazinga said:
The goal is to transform you into one of the cucks who say "I just haven't found the right person yet" or "I could get a gf if I wanted to but I choose not to" or "I really don't need a relationship" because it doesn't matter that none of that is true, by believing it, you won't be depressed anymore.
:bigbrain:
 
Wizard32

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OP upfront I will say it was a pleasure to read a thread like this and I admire the thought you've put in it. Even though I'm going to go ahead and voice a lot of disagreement with your theories, I still think you are high-IQ for studying this issue and you have demonstrated understanding of it which I think might be absent in >95% of our forumbase. You are a worthy opposition and I believe any clashes between us will better us both in our intraspective capacities.

Now prepare to get schooled son :bigbrain:
Bazinga said:
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to allow you to do the following, in order:
  1. Recognize negative perceptions you have about yourself and reality
  2. Dismiss these perceptions as false by using premade refutations
  3. Believe that you can control your circumstances
  4. Eventually change your "core beliefs" so that you no longer think your circumstances are bad
Note that "truth" enters nowhere into the equation.

I don't agree with you about that OP. The whole idea of condemning a "cognitive distortion" is that it is thinking distorted out of line with assessing what reality truly is.

Logic results in assessing truth more accurately: a logical fallacy results in assessing truth less accurately.

The problem is moreso that those applying CBT might not be recognizing distortions in their own thinking as they preach a supposed "truth" to a patient who could possibly have better insights about it.

Bazinga said:
The guide I've linked above makes many mentions about "rationality" and how certain thoughts are illogical. These are lies. The fundamental belief about Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is that you, the patient, need to recognize that if you perceive reality negatively, you are irrational.
Source?

Bazinga said:
It does not matter whether your perception of reality is true or false. The fact that it is making you sad means that you are insane.
Source?

I've seen the intent to diminish sadness by amending your inner vocabular.

IE instead of "I know everyone in this room hates me" you replace that with "I suspect based on reasonable evidence that the vast majority of the people in this room probably hate me".

The idea is to make it seem slightly less suffocating by peppering in small insignificant hope pellets.

Bazinga said:
Question 1, for example, says that Peter should look at other people who aren't currently in a relationship.
This is designed to make Peter feel as if his condition is temporary, or that it might change.
You're doing some "mind-reading" about the intentions here, and I don't agree with your speculation.

I think more likely this is a response to confront the "I'm a loser" supposition".

Therapist directs you to look at someone you "like and respect" (ie don't view as "a loser") who is not in a relationship.

If that is done then it opens the possibility to think "I am not an absolute -loser- despite not being in a relationship .. I just lose at relationships but not at other facets of accomplishment"

Bazinga said:
Sure, you might not currently be in a relationship, but maybe you'll find someone to be with in the future!
Nope, that's not the point, IMO. The "not currently" is just I think because all you can witness sometimes is whether or not someone is currently involved, you may not have a window to witness if they had a relationship in the past or not.

Bazinga said:
Let's analyze Questions 2 and 4. They look logical, Peter should look at all of the evidence, right?
But look at what isn't said.
The therapist isn't asking Peter to look at all of his past,
Why the fuck would you do something like "review your entire past" as a question? That's fucking useless, you wouldn't know where to begin.
Questions should obviously be specific.

Bazinga said:
nor is the therapist asking Peter to examine any of the evidence that supports his current belief that he will always be alone.
Asking if someone has a past romance is clearly relevant to providing context for further questions along this line.

Also what Peter has said so far hasn't actually presented any evidence supporting his current belief: he has only expressed the belief.

Probing as to his past and reasons is basically inquiring about those motives.

That's basically what "discounting any life experiences to suggest that you will not be completely alone?” attempts to do indirectly but I find that a pretty messily-phrased thing, NGL

Bazinga said:
The therapist is just asking Peter to look at events in his life that go against his beliefs.
This is called "cherry-picking" as a logical fallacy,
and involves only looking at the evidence that supports a particular view.
The "fallacy of incomplete evidence" would only apply if you refused to talk about contrary evidence.
Doing specific questioning isn't a guarantee you will do this.

You could easily see it as the reverse: someone depressed might cherry-pick in the reverse direction, giving focus and emphasis to events which support his beliefs while ignoring things that don't.
In that situation it would be right to seek out ignored things which confront the person's beliefs.

Bazinga said:
Peter should only think about the one time he held hands with a girl when he was 10 years old.
Peter should not think about the hundreds of times he's been rejected in his life.
He should look at his "girlfriend" he had for 3 months in middle school, not the 12 years he spent alone.
You're delving into "mind-reading" again.
The questioner never says anything like this.
You can easily talk about these arguments for the reverse perception after indulging the "explore the positive" line of questioning.


Bazinga said:
Question 3 is simpler, Peter should try to comfort himself and not feel sad like he might comfort a friend that was feeling sad. Nobody is going to tell their friend "it's over give up".
So... no problem here then?

Bazinga said:
Question 5 is nebulously worded.
On the surface, it looks like the therapist is trying to tell Peter that he might not have control over his inability to be in a relationship,
Suggesting there is "something you do not have complete control of" is fine, since none of us have 'complete' control over anything.
But if lacking 100% control means you can't blame yourself then it would mean it's not right to blame yourself EVER, which I'd disagree with.

Better less "all-or-nothing thinking" phrasing would be something like "blaming TOO MUCH for something you have TOO LITTLE control over"

Bazinga said:
In actuality, it assumes that Peter has partial control over his situation
Not really, seems more like the reverse to me.

Bazinga said:
and tries to make Peter feel as if the situation is "not his fault", or that he didn't choose to be an incel.
Any problem with this?
You can't "choose" to be "involuntarily X"

Bazinga said:
This lays the foundation for the next step of cognitive behavioural therapy,
where Peter will discover that his lack of choice to be in a relationship means that he really chose not to be in a relationship.
How exactly does "I didn't choose to be incel" lead to "I chose to be celibate" ? You're flipping it.

Bazinga said:
What all of these questions have in common is that they are designed to change Peter's beliefs,
by making Peter himself recognize that his thinking is wrong.
You're engaging in "all or nothing thinking" here.

"Peter's thinking" is a multifaceted network of opinions. The intent is never to disregard ALL of them as wrong.

So we should clarify proportionality via "some of his beliefs" (perhaps "his WRONG beliefs") or "some of his thinking" (perhaps "his WRONG thinking")

Bazinga said:
Peter's thinking is being replaced here by the therapist's, with carefully controlled questions designed to make Peter think what is necessary.
You'd need more evidence here.

Also: replacing some of your opinions with some of your therapist's opinions is fine so long as those opinions are correct and better.

In cases where they are not, obviously that's bad.

The issue is being wary so that the latter doesn't happen.

Bazinga said:
Peter's beliefs aren't being challenged here,
Peter is just being made to "question" them.
This is illogical, "questioning" and "challenging" a belief are the same thing to the point that "Reflect on a time when you questioned or challenged a belief" was a question on the US common application for universities last year.
I agree with you that they're synonymous enough. This might be due to variance in usage where people perceive different implications and strength with certain nouns.

Those who use challenge/question as is to mean different degrees might view "challenge" as a stronger word (like "condemn") and "question" as a softer word (like "inquire" or "analyze")

Bazinga said:
But this misses that the goal here isn't for the therapist to challenge Peter's beliefs,
but for Peter to automatically recognize his wrongthink and correct it.
I dunno if I'd call it automatic, more like build habits of questioning the language of one's thoughts/narrative.

Like for example when I think to myself on the regular shit like "I can't live like this" which borders on suicidal ideation, I remind myself stuff like "but actually I am still alive, so that is technically incorrect... I am suffering from periods of increased stress and using incorrect language on impulse to describe it".


Bazinga said:
This leads us into step number 2 of the four step guide I wrote above. Peter the Incel isn't going to be with his therapist 24/7. He won't always have someone to think for him. So to help prevent wrongthink, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy relies on identifying common depressing thoughts and trains you to remove them.

For instance, "Overgeneralization", which in reality refers to any attempt to generalize your experiences and extrapolate future events. Let's say you installed Tinder and got 0 matches. The women on Tinder obviously thought you weren't attractive, so you might be tempted to say that it's possible that women in general will find you unattractive. This is when Cognitive Behavioural Therapy steps in, and you come up with a justification that "Tinder isn't real life! Real life isn't a meat market! I should try Bumble/etc instead." (notice how many normies say this? I wonder why).
CBT doesn't necessarily need to go so far.

I think it's more along the lines is if you get zero matches and say "NO WOMAN COULD EVER FIND ME ATTRACTIVE" and replace it with "it seems like most women don't find me attractive, certainly not enough to have a one-night tinder stand without me betabuxing"

Bazinga said:
Or "Black-or-white thinking", which refers to any attempt to categorize your experiences into a binary. e.g., being a failure for not having sex, as opposed to being successful for having sex.
That's correct to confront IMO: there are more ways to weigh value than sex.

Bazinga said:
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to step in there, and tell you that there are plenty of different experiences and there's no such thing as being "successful" or "failing".
In an objective sense that is true: success and failure are subjective experiences which require a context to have meaning.

You can say "I'm a failure as a man because I define manhood entirely about impregnating women and I haven't impregnated" which provides context/subjectivity.

But merely "I'm a failure" doesn't mean anything without context.

Bazinga said:
The reason why this is so powerful is because "binary oppositions" are what all human thought are structured on (t. Saussure [2]).
By ignoring binaries and pretending they don't exist, your thoughts will lose all meaning and no longer make sense.
I don't agree with your implication that ignoring what is often a false dichotomy of failure/success (when there might be a continuum of reasults, like "finding happiness in love") and engaging in all-or-nothing black-and-white thinking (ie "sexual success or life is meaningless") necessarily means throwing away binary oppositions in general.

One can view things on a binary continuum, plus also think of some things in terms of absolute yes/no (example: did your penis touch a cervix? it's yes or no) while resisting applying that thinking to other spheres.

Bazinga said:
By eliminating the concepts of "success" and "failure" you will not feel like a failure.
Correct, and I don't think they hide that intent, and that's not a bad goal.
The identification of "all aspects of me are failure" is not just thoroughly saddening: it's usually factually incorrect in at least some respects where you might come in 2nd-last place in some comparisons to other competitors.

Bazinga said:
By creating catchy names and complex systems, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy allows you to identify and destroy rational thinking.
The names are to describe the meaning/intent of analytical strategies.
You haven't explained how this would destroy rational thinking.
CBT can be misapplied (by either therapist or patient) to attack rational thinking: there is a risk of that to be wary of, but I would not agree that this is it's inherent nature.
Basically CBT must be applied to also evaluate CBT strategies itself to make sure it stands up to it's own standards.

Bazinga said:
After the ability to recognize wrongthink is firmly ingrained in your head, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy will teach you to...

Believe that you have control​

You do have control: the question is how much, and over what?
Control is a continuum in many cases of gradual influence you have over different things.
There is no absolute control, nor absolute lack of control.
There are of course wide differences in control-capacity between different people which is fucking depressing.


Bazinga said:
Once the ability to wrongthink has been removed from your head, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is designed to make you have a feeling of control.
CBT does not claim to (and cannot) remove the ability to wrongthink, only instill habits to confront and override wrongthink.

IE "I'm the ugliest man in the world" is wrongthink: you use CBT and replace that with "I am in the bottom 1% of male attractiveness in this world" which is slightly less saddening.

Or maybe more saddening: because you'd actually believe it, whereas deep down you know "I am the ugliest" isn't technically true, so you aren't harmed by it to the same degree as a realistic stat.

Bazinga said:
At this point, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy starts to implement "rightthink" so to speak. For instance, in the CAMH document, Nancy wanted to drive up to her cottage, but was scared of having a panic attack. So she creates a table that lists the situation she's in, the "automatic thoughts" (i.e. wrongthink) she had about the situation, and the emotions she was having. This allows her to target those and feel like she's in control.
By engaging in self-analysis you are exerting some level of control: the issue is how much.
If you are thinking of "control" as to mean "absolute control" or even "significant enough control to change an outcome" I think maybe you're going too far with the idea.


Bazinga said:
This is no accident and it's why Cognitive Behavioural Therapy stresses the importance of worksheets and homework. It structures your thoughts (homework is often called the "thought record") to align with how therapists want you to think and more importantly lets you feel like you're in control.
True: though a therapist might be forthright in saying "I'm trying to influence you to think in a certain way while giving you a sense of importance in the process" in which case, what's the issue?

Their attempt to make me think how they want is really only a problem if they're bullshitting and saying "no I'm not trying to change you".

I don't think any therapist would be that low-IQ unless dealing with some mental child with some kind of paranoid anti-influence complex... and even then it would seem an unwise strategy which many would avoid anyway.

Bazinga said:
You'll see this in a lot of the advice given from normies to incels, like "go to the gym" or "work on your personality".
Those types of generalizations tend to be insulting and non-committal, CBT tends to be a little more polite and respectful.

Bazinga said:
The goal here is to make you feel like you're in control of your inability to have sex, regardless of if you actually are in control or not.
I haven't seen anything in the CBT posts you've quoted that intend to influence them into thinking they could control the ability to have sex.
If anything I'd say it's probably closer to trying to whitepill them into finding happiness and fulfillment and self-respect through means other than achieving sex.

Bazinga said:
if you don't believe me, here's a direct quote from the document:
Structure your thoughts and soon you can generate "alternative viewpoints" for yourself!
That direct quote doesn't specify that the alternative viewpoint is "I can get a girl to want to fuck me" though.
The alternative viewpoint they're referring to is likely to stop thinking "I'm an (absolute) failure because I'm not part of a couple".
Is there a problem with this viewpoint?
No.
Thinking joining a couple is 100% of life's purpose in defining success/failure is cucked self-deceiving gynocentric bullshit.
You should definitely be rewriting that kind of thinking and reframing it.
Lacking a GF to compliment you is a horrible gaping void in your life but it's not an absolute determination of your value as a human being.

Bazinga said:

Changing your core beliefs​

The ultimate goal of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy though, is to change something that's called your "core beliefs".
Source?

Bazinga said:
This means refiguring your value system to prevent yourself from becoming depressed ever again.
That seems like a very unrealistic high bar, and I'd like to know if you're inventing this narrative on your own, or quoting any particular rights.
"Never again" is clear distorted thinking: it's all-or-nothing fortune-telling.
Embodying CBT habits would automatically attack such an expectation.

Bazinga said:
Let's say one of your life goals is fulfilling sexual relationships. The ultimate goal of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is to remove that as one of your goals.
Source?

Bazinga said:
That's why "reformed incels" say that sex really isn't that important anyways.
That depends on what quantity you mean by the adjective "that" preceding "important" I suppose.

If it's downgrading your thinking from inflated "sex is the only purpose in life", I'm for it.

If it's trying to reduce it to some copey bullshit like "there's no use in aspiring for sex, fapping is just as good" then obviously that'd be going too far.

Bazinga said:
They've reached that stage, and no longer want sex because CBT has convinced them not to.
Of course, this is tough.
That's why the ability of choice is so heavily emphasized.
It is far easier to say you don't value sex if you're choosing not to have it, than to say you don't value sex when you can't have it.
You seem to have gone down a rabbit-hole of speculation here: can you actually show some examples of someone using CBT to try and achieve this "no longer want sex" outcome via CBT?

I think in the long run a therapist might think it's good for a patient to get sex, but first get them less fixated on it so they can better themself and thus have a higher chance of achieving it.

IE if you have such low self-esteem like "I am worthless without sex" it's going to seem to any foid you might have any chance with.

If you end up not having a chance with her anyway in the end even with boosted esteem: aren't you still better off by having boosted that esteem?

Bazinga said:
Once this core assumption is gone, the wrongthink that stems from it disappears.
A core tenent of cognitive behavioural therapy is that your core beliefs spawn these negative thoughts, and once they are changed, wrongthink disappears as well.
Any source explaining this as a "core tenent" ?

To me "core belief" seems like an exaggeration and false dichotomy too.
Beliefs aren't as simple as core/non-core or as unconscious/conscious.
I think they come in a gradual continuum of awareness, recurrance and connectedness.

Negative thoughts can come spontaneously, or recur after having latched on.
Obviously one negative thought (true or not) can lead to other negative thoughts (true or not)
So I think it would make sense to example underlying beliefs that lead to other ones.

Of course a key thing to it all is to try to be relatively objective and strive for truth even if it's uncomfortable.
Comfortable falsehoods wouldn't be a reliable poultice.

Bazinga said:
After all, if you no longer want sex, why would you be upset about being incel?
You can sometimes be upset by lacking an option even if you wouldn't want to take that option. Though I'd agree in thinking this would remove the major onus of frustration.
Cristo said:
A truecel in a r9k thread yesterday was talking about something like this.
How other people’s opinions cannot have the ability to interfere with his inner state, protected by a huge ego based on his status.
Even as an old virgin NEET.
Inner/outer state division is a false dichotomy.
There is no absolute resistance to external influence, only varying degrees of it.

Cristo said:
Basically convincing himself that if it makes him feel good it may as well be real.
Logical self-imposed deception is extremely cucked.:blackpill::feelsthink:
WTF does this have to do with CBT?
If it's deception it's by definition not CBT, it's Cognitive Behavioral Abuse.

Therapy helps you: if it fucks you up and makes you think delusions then it's not therapy.
Ehwhatever said:
My psychologist straight up told me it only works if you buy into it.
That itself exhibits a cognitive distortion in your psychologist: he's using all or nothing thinking here, needing CBT himself.

It would obviously work BETTER if someone believed in it, but it can still work if you're skeptical, since it's about applying skepticism humbly to your own thought processes.

You can even invent the questions yourself if you don't trust a therapist to guide you.

I wonder if perhaps your psychologist knew he was bullshitting but realized you were resistant so was just bashing it to try and make you lower your guard and feel chummy with him.
IE having you belief in HIM was more important to him than having you believe in the CBT.
To the point where he bashed a legit approach by deceiving you about it.
Which might help you so long as you stick with him but IMO it's cucked to let your psych manipulate you that way and make you reliant on him while axing alternatives.

Ehwhatever said:
He said that being able to pick apart the logical flaws in CBT makes it extremely difficult to treat someone so he gave up on it.
What logical flaws? I fucked up all the OP's objections, showing they were misapplications.

Ehwhatever said:
It's certainly voluntary brainwashing. I think the point of therapy though isn't learning to accept your life so much but about figuring out ways to cope with it
Voluntary brainwashing is mandatory to learn anything.
Why this fixation on attachment to fixed opinions?
Fuck it's like you'd reject being taught math or literacy.

CBT isn't necessarily about accepting your life: you can aspire to change things while applying CBT.
You guys are pigeonholing it into this one narrow application where CBT tactics might be misapplied abusively to remove people's dreams.
It's like the whole "I saw a shitty anime so all anime is shitty "crap
based_meme said:
Fat Link @Fat Link AmIjustDreaming @AmIjustDreaming pin this shit. Everybody needs to see the scam that's CBT.
CBT can be abused and misinterpreted to scam but it's not inherently a scam.
Atavistic Autist said:
It's fitting that I should read this thread today because I just quit my longstanding CBT therapist after no longer being able to bear their dogmatic bullshit. Like just hours ago :feelsgah:
Good. CBT having sound principles doesn't mean the majority of therapists trying to apply it are worth their salt.
They're often hypocrites who don't use CBT to improve their own thinking and come at you with a fixed sense of reality they want you to conform to while not being willing to re-evaluate their own suppositions w/ CBT tactics.
CBT is bigger than any professional or profession.

Atavistic Autist said:
Unlike E @Ehwhatever's therapist, it's clear that mine would never stop scheduling new appointments until I told them to stop. Because therapy is primarily a money-making industry, and the therapist has student loans to pay.
Agreed. You don't need therapists to do CBT, you can just read a book on it and do it yourself.
Therapist COULD be useful but you should apply "it's not all-or-nothing" to whether CBT is beneficial: it doesn't have any absolute requirement of people with letters to work for you.

Atavistic Autist said:
But what makes CBT so extraordinary compared to other forms of therapy is how vapid and dull it is.
One's rich, internal life, replete with varied emotions and thoughts, is crudely imposed upon by a mediocre liberal arts major who desires to replace your personality with their own
Not if you self-apply it.
CBT doesn't need any BA bullshitter to guide it, just guide yourself.
You can benefit from a pro, sure, but be skeptical: use CBT to take apart their own expressions the same way they want you to take apart yours.

Atavistic Autist said:
Even as an autistic person, I found the mechanistic nature of CBT to be stilted and uninspiring af.
Not to mention unhelpful, given that autistic systemizers like me are already good at logic and rationality,
and don't take kindly to hypocrites who pose as beacons of reason.
You're not bashing bashing Cognitive Behavioral Therapy here AA... you're bashing Cognitive Behavioral "Therapists".
OwlGod said:
I think it's impossible for CBT to work.
you just sit there, and starts dialoguing with someone who has no ties to you
Not required: I just use CBT on myself for the most part.
I'm sure the guy I talk to every 3-4 months to get my sleeping pills refilled tries to use a bit of CBT tactics on me, that's fine.
It's nice having someone to talk to and I'm skeptical as fuck of him because he's a jew and an accomplished normy.
The problem isn't interacting with therapists/doctors, it's the expectation that you put an excessive amount of faith in them or drop your guard and stop thinking rationally.

OwlGod said:
zero emotional attachment to what she or he says, zero effects onto the person
CBT would inform you that you ought to replace "zero" with "minimal" to avoid your all-or-nothing generalization bro ;)

There is some microcosmic amount of emotional connect and effect every human has on another, we just mentally round that down to zero because it's so underwhelming.

OwlGod said:
altering or restructuring thoughts is impossible either way

Thoughts are always altering/restructuring, truly static thought seems impossible to me.
We may be "set in our ways" but that would just mean saying "significant restructuring" and making large changes in a short period of time is unusual.

OwlGod said:
thoughts are automatically spontaneously generated, and anyone who thinks it's easy to do that, really is a moron
I wouldn't say automatic or spontaneous : they're probably chemical reactions because of neurons zapping each other and having orgies, but there's likely some underlying physical law there we just haven't been able to completely predict.

Also where does CBT advertise itself as easy? That's very subjective: even if understanding a theory is easy (ie "lift weights" or "drink whey" or "stop thinking fallaciously") actually organizing new habits to benefit greatly from them is pretty tricky.

OwlGod said:
if it was so easy, then OCD patients would barely exist.
Again arguing the strawman: I don't see anyone calling CBT 'easy'.
It just seems like the most feasible and logical psychoanalytical approach compared to most self-help bullshit out their written by new-agers.
Beats crap like "the secret" by far. What other competitors are we looking at here?

OwlGod said:
,,successful" stories of therapy or psychological treatments are mostly of females, as they've a predisposition, they're there to gain further reinforcement, validation of all their momentarily anteriorly set feelings, further strengthening all the encircling paranoia around about themselves until their Ego ignates beyond proportions.
Foids are mostly in therapy for attention and because they don't understand how blessed they are, so reframing their thinking to recognize how the world orbits around them obviously makes CBT a fast-happy switch for moer foids.

In terms of men benefitting from CBT it's basically just learning a slight cope where instead of thinking stuff like "she doesn't care if I live or die" you replace it with "she might slightly care about the outcome depending on how it benefitted her"
watcher said:
Brutal. In order to feel OK you have to lie to yourself (aka cope)
Depends on what you mean by "okay" tbh.
You don't need to lie to yourself to feel "better" though.
Even if "better than the worst" is still "awful".
watcher said:
psychologists are nothing but frauds that teach you to lie to yourself.
I don't agree.
That probably correctly describes 90-99% of them...
..., but I think there's some minority who, even if they don't care about you and WISH they could lie to you...
...might realize you're too high-IQ to mislead and will just be frank/honest
The question is figuring out which one you got.
Never assume you know, be humble and entertain both possibilities!
Lv99_BixNood said:
I think that for mental illnesses such as OCD therapy is actually legit (because the intrusive thoughts you get from OCD are fundamentally irrational and have nothing to do with reality)
I think this depends on whether we're correctly diagnosing OCD in the first place.
Like is your obsessive compulsive unhealthy/unneccessary, or actually a good habit?

For example: I obsessively make sure my door is locked when I go to bed. I sometimes, even after having locked it, jump out of bed, flip on the light, and double-check that I did it.

I don't see that as unhealthy or unnecessary, because it's entirely feasible that I thought I locked it but did not.

This is because I occasionally have memory lapses, or excess faith that I did something when in fact I skipped it while operating on autopilot.

Lv99_BixNood said:
but the problem is that people think CBT should be applied to every kind of negative thought now, regardless whether these thoughts are actually irrational or not.
Overuse is abuse.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't apply CBT to all thinking, though, just that CBT stops being applied when you realize a thought is true.
Also: it should not just be applied to negative thoughts, but positive thoughts too.

Having a delusion that makes you happy is still a bad thing.
Even if your only goal is happiness (and one really ought to have more) you'll likely realize it's a delusion eventually, and that won't hit you as hard the less you come to rely on it, which means eliminating it early.

Lv99_BixNood said:
Like a lot of "depression" is just people living in objectively shitty circumstances (like inceldom) and their negative reactions to these situations are completely sound and logical.
I wouldn't say "a lot". It seems unbelievable that anyone's reaction to anything is COMPLETELY sound/logical. Likely everyone (though I can't say for sure!) has reactions to things which don't mesh up with logic.

You could say we all 100% follow logical laws, but these laws don't necessarily correspond to what we think are logical strategies for our goals, instead they could be logics of competing processes.

Lv99_BixNood said:
And attemting to apply CBT here is when the whole thing goes from therapy to brainwashing and self-delusion.
A statement like that is proof to me you could use some CBT bro because you're applying all-or-nothing exaggerations in two respects:
1) that the "whole thing" alters in nature
2) that there is a complete shift from "therapy" to "delusion"

Your intentions are good and you have truth mixed in with the lies padding it, but it's about phrasing that truth accurately bro.

MISapplying CBT to try and alter logical beliefs into illogical delusions is indeed a shift from therapy to abuse (instilling delusions is generally considered abusive, with rare controversial exceptions)

But applying CBT is always correct: properly applied CBT doesn't result in replacing sound+logical thoughts with unsound+illogical ones.

Properly applied CBT would recognize those as genuine thoughts, not fuck with them, and instead just analyze if there were any legitimate ways to reframe those thoughts to alter their impact on you.

IE "it's bad you don't have a girlfriened" doesn't need to be replaced, so much as supplemented with "but eating chicken wings is pleasant, so is watching TV, maybe lack of pussy bothers you a bit less when you are finger-deep in chicken wings and cartoons bro"

TBH am probably taking CBT in directions most psychs wouldn't though ;)
Ehwhatever said:
For what it's worth I understand what you mean by thoughts being automatically generated.
There's scientific evidence to support that thoughts are created before we're even aware or able to act on them.
Who the fuck needs evidence for these?
It's obvious to me that you can't be aware of a thought before thinking it,
Even moreso that you can't act on a thought which hasn't occurred yet.

Ehwhatever said:
It brings up the question of whether we really have free will.
How do we even begin to answer questions on that without defining what 'free will' means in that particular discussion?
We can't even consistently agree upon what lines to draw around concepts like "love" so what hope does free will have?
Freedom itself is subjective: free of what? Unfettered in which regard? Immune to what influence?

Absolute freedom/independence seems like an illusion, just as the idea of absolute reliance on any particular cause also seems like illusion.
Freedom is better understood (like with love) IMO as a continuum of increasing value as opposed to a discrete yes/no question.
Basically the reason we have dilemmas like this is we're trapped in a simplistic analog thought process.
Works better if you go digital.

Ehwhatever said:
till, I'm hoping that EMDR therapy will help. It's supposed to help reprogram your brain to help with trauma which I think a lot of people here have.
It's probably a huge cope but I'll try anything to not feel like roping at this point
Part of me wants to reprogram my brain so hearing a creak filled me with happiness instead of hatred,
Hatred is fucking exhausting and interferes with my hobbies and sleep possibly more than the creaking itself.
That said, part of me wants to resist such reprogramming, looking at it as cucked to embrace the abuse and inconsiderate nature of others.
It's clearly useful feedback that others do not regard you, and anger can motivate us to make changes to create distance from those who disregard our value and wellbeing.
If they would do it by making avoidable creaks then they would do it for other reasons like robbery/murder next.
unuser said:
I have always known it's bullshit,
but talking with a woman outside of family can be a bit refreshing,
even if she's just bulshitting.
NGL this is true, you know it's just your bluepilled subconscious LARPing, but dealing with some foid in a service industry with good manners can sometimes be uplifting.

unuser said:
Because of this I frequently leave the sessions feeling lighter (at least for the 10min travel back home).
I wouldn't pay for this, but my parents pay and it makes them feel better, so :feelscomfy:
The ideal is if you can arrange is to the foids you gain some occasional pleasure-of-connection speaking to, actually benefits you in some way.
IE a social worker who assigns your bux trying to build up your esteem so you'll get a job
Vrthraghna said:
Another word I like to use for therapy is "liberal brainwashing"
neo-liberalism is anti-therapeutic, I'm for classic liberalism tho
cvh1991 said:
Frankly therapy is a waste of time, especially if you’re a man. Women have taken over social “science” and therapy and have bent the institutions to their bias.
Depends on the therapist, the approach, how you manage your expectations and strategies.
You don't need to put your faith in what you're told to listen.
BuyingANewFace said:
"Therapy" is really just organized and systematic gaslighting.
Care to elaborate? Not sure you understand what gaslighting means.
BrazilianLambda said:
I wouldn't necessarily call it a scam because the main premise of CBT is that a patient may have a distorted view of reality.
If that's the case, CBT can be effective.
Of course, this doesn't apply to based incels like us because we know that our issues aren't imaginary.
I would posit that EVERYONE has imaginary issues to some degree.
Nobody has a perfect view of reality.
You'll note above that I am also exhibiting such behavior in my phrasing by using everyone/nobody btw:...
...humbly I have to entertain the idea that there's some perfect fuck out there lacking imaginary issues
...but I lack faith in that perfect person existing.

Based incels with legitimate issues can still have some delusions or exaggerations in their thinking.

For example: maybe you are actually a 3/10 incel who thinks they are a 1/10 and your lack of confidence lowers you -1 to an effective 2/10.
That doesn't mean your root belief is wrong (that being unattractive dooms you)
Nor does it mean that correcting your misconception would actually help you achieve your goals: accepting you are 3/10 and being an effective 3/10 still wouldn't get you success.

Even temporary overconfidence instilled by illusion wouldn't help: if you convince yourself you're a 5/10 and that +1 confidence-boost makes you an effective 4/10, you're still doomed.

BrazilianLambda said:
A therapist must be objective in every way. (well, at least in theory; most of them are still bluepilled cucks)
Obviously there's not true objectivity, just "more objective than the competition". Objectivity is a continuum and we shouldn't expect perfection in it.
MaxZM98 said:
Question 3: I would definitely tell my incel friend It's over. If he's sub 5, it'd hurt him even more to keep trying in futility
It's about phrasing: if "over" or "never began" means "no chance" it might softne it to use realistic terms like "odds so negligible it's not worth your time".
 
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Wizard32

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Bazinga said:
The main premise of CBT isn't that a patient may have a distorted view of reality, it's that the patient does have a distorted view of reality.
That's fine: I accept the premise that EVERYONE has a distorted view of reality (including this view)
The question is the DEGREE of distortion, in various issues.

Bazinga said:
Any thought that makes you feel worse about yourself is automatically irrational and any thought that makes you feel better about yourself is automatically rational.
Source?
I've NEVER seen that associated with CBT and I think you're misinterpreting it.

You may be aiming at a truth like they strive for optimism regarding truthiness of feel-good (and not fucking with it) and pessimism regarding truthiness of feel-bad (and fucking with it) but that's not the same as "automatically" classifying either things.

If you were actually right then CBT would never confront high expectations because high expectations make you feel better.

Bazinga said:
CBT is always effective
CBT would teach you such a thought is fallacious sir.

Bazinga said:
the truth isn't that you feel bad because you're an incel, you feel bad because you know that you're an incel
What a crock.
This is like...
"The truth isn't that you feel hungry because you lack food, but because you KNOW you lack food"
I'm going to be hungry whether I'm aware I'm starving or not bro.
I'm going to be horny whether I think my celibacy is self-imposed or externally denied.

Bazinga said:
By simply denying that you're unattractive, denying that you're unable to get a gf, and considering any thoughts you have about the subject as "wrongthink", you will no longer be depressed.
Again: seems you're down a rabbithole of speculation OP, where has CBT ever attempted this?

You can deconstruct ideas like "unattractive". Our own decile scale does this: breaking it down to 10 options instead of a false dichotomy (attractve vs unattractive).

Of course the ultimate evolution is abandoning the analog and thinking there are actually discrete ranks (they are approximations) and that it's purely digital in ways we can't exactly pin down numerically.

You can also account for variations in the digital attractiveness scale based on small fluctuations in your daily attractiveness based on what's happening, and slight differences in values of who views you.

Those fluctuations likely don't account for much, of course. It would be a problem to give them undue importance, but we shouldn't deny them either.

IE "yes decile measurement might vary 1 or 2 points amongst various foids" is fine.
One girl's 8/10 chadlite might be some other girl's 10/10 gigachad or another girls' 6/10 melvin.
(though more realistically, a variation of 1 decile scale is what I would expect, not 2 points... and a variation of 0.5 or 0.1 would be even more realistic)
But not "girl A's 1/10 truecel is girl B's 10/10 gigachad" because I have faith (even though I'm engaging in all-or-nothing thinking here) that this doesn't ever happen.

Bazinga said:
The goal is to transform you into one of the cucks who say "I just haven't found the right person yet"
That's not exactly cucked, thinking that if you found a right compliment you could be happy without changing.
The cucked part is deluding you into thinking that the girl actually exists and you would encounter her in time, when there's no statistical basis to assume it.
Basically any girl who would accept one of us might well accept a guy very similar to us, and there are a lot of guys similar to us.
So even if a girl who accepted you did exist, there wouldn't be enough of her to saturate the environment to encounter you in time.

Bazinga said:
or "I could get a gf if I wanted to but I choose not to" or "I really don't need a relationship" because it doesn't matter that none of that is true, by believing it, you won't be depressed anymore.
Who's to say none of it is true?
I doubt anyone here puts 100% effort into getting a GF.
The reason being, whether you hide from it for fear of being labelled a volcel: you know getting a GF by itself it not the end goal.
It's getting a GOOD girlfriend.
IE one who won't cuck you and break your heart.
If you don't have faith you'd get the long-term happiness then why would you even gamble and waste your resources?
I wouldn't call that mentalcel unless you mean highIQcel.

As far as "need", it's more about deconstructiving what "need" means, being a subjective thing.
IE "I need to boil water to soften my noodels".
I have no objective "need" to boil water though, just as I have no objective "need" for a relationship.

I need GOOD STUFF to fill the void in my existence which pines for connection and shit.
Relationship is amongst one of the things that is GOOD STUFF, perhaps.
I can't really prove it's 100% the only possible thing that could fill that void.
It does increasingly seem like the leading candidate though, and I'm losing faith in alternatives, because I am wired to keep coming back to wanting a romance with a girl.

But I mean... humbly speaking, should I really be so arrogant as to think nothing could possibly ever substitute when I've never really experienced the full plethora of possible alternatives?
It just seems like a good basic staple of life that one ought to have a wife and kids, so I want it.

Bazinga said:
That's the reason why CBT's success rates are so high and why it's the best method of psychotherapy.
It always works because it doesn't actually rely on fixing the patient's problems (which is usually really difficult/impossible)
It doesn't always work though.
Also: thinking irrationally IS a problem, so it does rely on fixing a problem.
As far as fixing problems that aren't purely delusions like "I have no money" or "people inherently dislike me because of my face" obviously it can't directly fix that shit.
At best it can reframe your decisions/priorities and emotional state to maybe give a slight advantage in changing what is actually possible to change.
Like I dunno... "instead of roping I made ten million on Wall Street and had facial reconstruction and heightening surgery" ?
CBT could lead to that, I guess? *shrug*
I don't think anyone is promising it necessarily or even reliably leads to feasible physical improvements that turn you into gigachad OP.

Bazinga said:
It relies on convincing the patient to deny that their problems actually exist or that if they do exist, that they're not actually problems that need solving.
A problem you can't solve ISN'T the problem that needs solving.
The problems you ought to solve first are the solvable ones.
Fixing fixable problems can slightly improve life and be used as a bridge to approach less easy problems.
That's no promise they'll be fixed to but it's the best tactics to contribute to any believable long-term strategy OP
LOLI BREEDING said:
extremely high IQ greycel thread. botb worthy SergeantIncel @SergeantIncel
the topic of CBT is high-IQ and to attack it requires some intelligence, but OP hasn't applied their IQ thoroughly and objectively and humbly enough to understand CBT as well as I do
 
Atavistic Autist

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Bazinga said:
It's about phrasing: if "over" or "never began" means "no chance" it might softne it to use realistic terms like "odds so negligible it's not worth your time".
Like a true CBT priest, you place a lot of emphasis on the words people use to describe their condition, as if these are not secondary to preexisting emotional states.

People say "it's over" because they feel sad about being socially/sexually isolated in the first place, largely due to deterministic factors like autism or ugliness.

This sadness and determinism is not expressed by the mechanistic phrase "the odds are so negligible that, by my equations, it is not worth my productive output." :feelsugh::feelsgah: The imparting of agency here reads like a MGTOW cope, but "cope" is a good word for you, isn't it?

CBT's presumption that emotions are a consequence of framing, and not the other way around, is counterfactual and retarded. But this is what produces its obsession with "rationality," as if the passions are merely a byproduct of carefully programmed AI code.

It seems that the CBT philosophy, which is a corporate makeover of Stoicism, appeals to highly conscientious nerds who would otherwise be found clutching pearls in a church (or, more aptly, clutching anal beads in a New Age church with rainbow flags up front).
 
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ThePlagueDoctor

ThePlagueDoctor

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Fucking gigabrain iq post bro

Also lol at giving an acronym to CAMH but not to CBT
 
Mecoja

Mecoja

fuck society
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I have no idea what is a CAMH or CBT, im not going to psychiatrist he will lock me up if i say what i really think. I will live with my fears, intrusive thoughts, depression and rest of the craziness.
 
Incellectual

Incellectual

feminae stultae sunt | 5'3 goblin-manlet
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Cock and Ball Torture is VALID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!1!!
 
crew2

crew2

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Brilliant post. My cousin is a Cognitive Behavioural Therapist and it does seem like it holds water. If the inside of your own head is in order then nothing else matters because the rest is is all external. Your mind is the pitch where the football game is played, everything else isn't part of the game.

As Marcus Aurelius said:-

"The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts"

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLnlswDTO2E
 
Massimo The Lonecel

Massimo The Lonecel

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I Still Have No Idea Of What Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Is Even After Reading The Posts In This Thread.
 
MinorityNoOneCares

MinorityNoOneCares

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CBT is nothing more than re-training a person to over-analyze their own perceptions of reality. This could cause more harm than anything else.
 
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Steiner Ex Machina

Steiner Ex Machina

It never began bitches
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Or in other words "how to become a cuck".
 
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