CMV: I think inceldom is simply an extension of our society's current relationship with personal responsibility

[InMemoriam]

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/16tscm2/cmv_i_think_inceldom_is_simply_an_extension_of/

 

[WØLF]

First. I love your post and it’s thoughtfulness.

I can argue that that your conceptualization of incelism is missing the role that consumerism plays.

American society socializes people to be consumers, even to define their identify by consumption.

It’s no surprise that sex and romance have become engulfed by consumerism. Not only buying things to improve one’s chances at romance, but seeing other human beings as consumable commodities.

The incel sees women / sex as things they should be able to consume and experience, rather than people. They also project this belief onto women, often accusing women of being shallow, gold diggers, manipulative, etc.

Consumerism + Refusal to accept personal responsibility (and some other narcissistic traits) = a man very susceptible to incel related ideologies.

 

[InceldianWarrior]

The actual, capital B blackpill (not the redpill, which is different) that incel boards at least formally claim to believe in, usually doesn’t really believe women can change their standards. They believe it is simply biologically hardwired in them/us to be unattracted to people who look like they do and nothing will change that. It is strictly focused on physical attributes that are largely unchangeable, particularly face, penis size and height. They don’t believe any amount of career or money (never mind personality - laughable idea to them) can make up for that and actually make a woman genuinely attracted to them instead of just using them for money. Only in the past it didn’t seem that way because women were socially forced to marry someone.

Some incels, especially people new to the subculture, do go around blaming women and claiming they should lower their standards and so on. But “elder” members will either support a return to a conservatism where women are forced to marry someone again, or tell them that it is just hopeless. Mostly the latter, because incels typically don’t just desire sex. They desire genuine attraction from the woman’s side. There’s a reason prostitution doesn’t “count” to them. The incel subculture is plagued mainly with su1cide (seriously, the amount of suic1de posts), not with angrily changing society back to conservatism. The men behind the biggest incel board currently operating are also operating a very disgusting su1cide guide forum, encouraging both men and women there to take their own lives.

I think you may actually be right that most incel board members aren’t black pill but rather red pill adjacent (women semi-choose the best man from a combination of factors including career and confidence etc). But the actual incel ideology that is distinct from red pill and pick up artistry is not what you describe.

Possibly the first and last foid to understand the blackpill ? Assuming it's not a tranny

 

[OutcompetedByRoomba]

Every description of the current situation which you can post on Reddit without it getting removed + you getting banned is at most partially correct. All this shit is is a poor attempt at trying to focus on the socially acceptable parts which play a role in the current situation on the sexual market (internet / social media, culture, male behavior) while ignoring all the parts you are not allowed to talk about (innate unfairness/inequality of the dating market, importance of looks over personality, female mating preferences, feminism being a driving force to maximize inequality in the sexual realm while also being institutionalized hate speech / hate-inducing propaganda against men, differences in trait distributions between men and women, innate pro-female preference amongst both men and women).

Explanation that you can read on Reddit for inceldom will have many of the core aspects necessary to understand what is going on removed in order to accommodate censorship standards on the site / in society in general. I barely want to waste my time reading though them because, even if they sometimes do have points worth making included somewhere, the authors first priority wasn't truth-seeking but conforming with social pressure.

 

[OutcompetedByRoomba]

First. I love your post and it’s thoughtfulness.

I can argue that that your conceptualization of incelism is missing the role that consumerism plays.

American society socializes people to be consumers, even to define their identify by consumption.

That's human nature not American society. Consumerism is the consequence of people's behavior, not the cause of it.

It’s no surprise that sex and romance have become engulfed by consumerism. Not only buying things to improve one’s chances at romance, but seeing other human beings as consumable commodities.

That is simply seeing things as they are. To some degree, what we can offer each other can be quantified and traded. Again, this is not new or unique to consumerism. To deny this is to remain intentionally blind & unaware of the basic rules underlying human society.

This man's ability to hunt prey more effectively than his peers has led to him having a high standing within his tribe. He has laid claim to the best parts of the animals they have hunted and the CONSUMERISM PRESENT IN THIS TRIBE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING AMAZON HAS LEAD THE WOMEN OF HIS TRIBE TO CONSIDER HIM AS A CONSUMEABLE COMMODITY RATHER THAN A REAL HUMAN BEAN!

The incel sees women / sex as things they should be able to consume and experience, rather than people.

"The incel"? So not you then? Obviously people want to take part in the most meaningful and enjoyable aspects of human life, that's nothing to do with consooooming you braindead commie and doesn't exclude percieving women as people JFL

They also project this belief onto women, often accusing women of being shallow, gold diggers, manipulative, etc.

You mean women don't care about money and don't lie to get their way? Well, didn't you just say

It’s no surprise that sex and romance have become engulfed by consumerism. Not only buying things to improve one’s chances at romance, but seeing other human beings as consumable commodities.

Or was that only directed at men? Are women not actually affected by coonsumerism? Is your brain powered by ChatGPT4 by any chance?

Consumerism + Refusal to accept personal responsibility (and some other narcissistic traits) = a man very susceptible to incel related ideologies.

Same with money tbh. Consumerism + Refusal to accept personal responsibility = a man very susceptible to communism. Just work hard bro and you too can make it! Just take responsibility for being born into poverty and with 85 IQ genes that will prevent you from ever being anything other than a third class work unit / corporate slave. Just TAKE RESPONSIBILITY! BY NOT COMPLAINING! ABOUT WOMEN! OR THE UNFAIRNESS OF LIFE! JUST LIE DOWN LIKE A DOG AND TAKE IT YOU DUMB BITCH!

Why am i even forced to read garbage this condecending and hostile to men/incels on this site? Wtf is this, did I stumble into some sort of social science related subforum where the researchers invading this site share their opinions on the reserach subjects? Why the fuck are you copy pasting reddit comments in here?

 

[SmhChan]

You mean women don't care about money and don't lie to get their way? Well, didn't you just say

Which gender sees which more objectively is pretty evident by the divorce stats and observing who initiate the break-ups most. People say sex-work is an objectification of foids, yet, they are the biggest proponents of it in the 'free-world'. It's in reality men who are being objectified as the moneybags. Yet, so much sympathy for the sex-workers because in their mind it is degrading which I refuse to take seriously when they laugh in the face a crying man.

It's solely because they are foids (mothers and sisters) that men are not being brutally objective. Any other race, they would be made to pay hell on earth for their discriminatory and exploitative behaviours. Whereas foids had no qualms about shaming men in the streets into joining the army, the same foids who later went on to popularise 'dear john'. Solely the reason men are not slaves in chains yet because there aren't enough military simps.