The incels you've seen are very different to the ones I've seen. The ones I've seen want a girlfriend. They want a relationship. They want marriage. They want a family. They can't get them. They are victims of feminism. Feminism has taught women that they should feel free to be promiscuous, and that marriage and a family are hindrances to empowerment. They're taught that these things get in the way of their greatest source of fulfillment -- a career. They're taught that they should behave like the men used to behave, if they could. Because they're taught these things, they feel no need to 'settle down'. Instead they have casual sex, and usually with attractive men. These men wouldn't marry most of these women because they know they can do better, but they're happy to have sex with them. So you have a situation where 80% of the women are having sex with 20% of the men. Which is a fantastic situation for those men, and a situation not without its compensation for the women. The 80% of men excluded from this situation -- the incels (acknowledged or not) -- are the losers. These incels can't even get sex let alone a relationship. They have to wait, sexless, until women either get bored of their casual sex with attractive guys or realise that the sort of guy they prefer to have sex with is not the sort of guy they have a realistic chance of a relationship with. The incels have to wait on the sidelines, knowing that their eventual partner will probably have had a lot of sex with exactly the sort of guy that the incel detests. Knowing that their eventual partner will probably think she's settling when she does choose him, because she's had sex with more attractive guys. Knowing she'll probably have kids already, by design or accident. Meanwhile, they're scorned and looked down on by society as not being real/worthy men. It's assumed, as you do Ben, that they must be entitled or have unrealistic expectations or be averse to commitment. It's not the men who are currently entitled and unrealistic and averse to commitment here -- it's the women. They think they can do better, and are often looking to 'trade up'. They don't want to commit to a regular guy. They think they deserve more. And meanwhile there's a cultural narrative being pushed out that men are shallow and commitment-phobic, and 'emotionally unavailable'. A narrative based entirely on that 20% of men who can actually get women. I think the narrative being told about incels is based on the sort of anachronistic view of society that feminists cling to. It no longer applies. It's based on outdated stereotypes. Now I'm not saying that there aren't morally repulsive incels out there who are exactly what you claim they are. I'm sure there are some who are entitled, and have unrealistic standards, and are misogynistic. But I think many of them are just regular guys who lose out in the society feminism is trying to create. They aren't attractive, talented or wealthy enough to compete with the 20%. I don't blame them at all for being disgruntled and angry. And I don't know what the solution is. I have a feeling that there'll be a lot of middle-aged single women who'll wish that they'd 'dated' differently. And I think there'll be a lot of guys who have given up on women and are waiting for the robot sex. They may find one of those middle-aged single women, or they may find a younger one if they can, or they may look overseas. They may drive vans into crowds. They'll probably never have kids, unless they end up raising the kids of one of the 20%. I think the younger generation will see this taking place and, armed with better facts than the feminists are offering, will correct for this aversion to marriage. They'll see where promiscuity leads. But that's no help to the older generation.