JFL Anti-Escortcellers (Egocels = Validationcels) & Other Mentalcels ..... This Is Your Future

BlkPillPres

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A 57 year old permavirgin with a sex doll (sex doll part would not be a downside if you were born in the year 2300 or something, but in this era its shit)

Have you started picking out your dolls yet?, man the future looks bright when you larp as Chad and abide by unrealistic standards

TBH I think this guy is a larp, always have, but if he isn't he is seriously the God of mentalcels, the God of incel mental gymnastics

Refused to pay for sex for decade upon decade

Did not use his wealth to find and act on any "loop holes" in society to get what he wanted

e.g.1 Join extremist religious communities
e.g.2 Move to a poor country with a traditionalist culture, get married and never go back to the west
Etc

All he did is what I see many mentalcels do everyday, wake up everyday and complain and do aboslutely nothing to change your life, not trying to find a loophole, not taking any risks to get what you want, nothing

This is your future, I only just realized this today based on another users comment, but this is basically what all of you are going to become
 
Deleted member 6470

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That's cool to know how you're better.
 
ReallyRice

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Bold words coming from a fakecel slayer tbh.
 
Deleted member 12355

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yeah, I have at least 10 different possible routes thought out before accepting that it's over. Keeps me preoccupied if nothing else
 
Deleted member 8353

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I'm not sure that having not desire to escortcel is the same thing as being against it tbh. People are usually both, but it's entirely possible for the former to be applicable without the latter.
 
Ugly_equals_Death

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I am an escortcell and i am proud
 
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FrustratedWhiteMale @FrustratedWhiteMale
 
Invalidusername

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another escort thread
 
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Ugly_equals_Death said:
I am an escortcell and i am proud
tbh tbh tbh
 
DarkMTS_57

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Escortcentric.
Pop up a few notches bro
 
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littlemanhikicel

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Idk if he is a fakecel but FrustratedWhiteMale @FrustratedWhiteMale must be a mentalcel as you say and a man with serious autistic problems. I can relate to him because I'm oldcel too and is hard to wake up and realize that you have a big problem beeing a virgin at certain age, but of course he have to do something about that as OP say going to a another country, scortcelling,etc. But if he can cope with dolls I respect that.
 
mental_out

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I don't see how hiring escorts helps you avoid any of that lol
 
Salustio

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It's over for validationcels. It's over if you believe in Santa Claus. It's over if you are a grown up egoist child who want to feel "loved" by a foid.

Validationcels are the only ones who I cannot support, because they are women worshippers, enablers of feminism.
 
VirginAutistManlet

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mental_out said:
I don't see how hiring escorts helps you avoid any of that lol
 
Saung-Hui Cho

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He said the other day he hopes to ascend with a foid who likes disco music like he does. I asked him if he plays his disco music around foids, but he didn’t answer me, I don’t think he’s ever answered a question of mine.
 
BlkPillPres

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LiterallyASoyboy said:
I'm not sure that having not desire to escortcel is the same thing as being against it tbh.

Its not just about not escortcelling, its the mindset they have that leads to them not escortcelling, being egotistical, that core thing to their personage, is why they won't do ANYTHING, fuck escortcelling, they won't do ANYTHING AT ALL, they are unwilling to make any sacrifice to get what they want from life, all they ever do is complain and come up with more volcel excuses as to why doing nothing but complaining is a good choice

Saung-Hui Cho said:
He said the other day he hopes to ascend with a foid who likes disco music like he does. I asked him if he plays his disco music around foids, but he didn’t answer me, I don’t think he’s ever answered a question of mine.

Who are you even talking about

FrustratedWhiteMale?

Yeah he really doesn't answer you at all or address any direct questions, you catch him in a corner he deflects or stops responding, this is why I'm sure he's a larp, but ironically he paints the perfect picture of what egocels are destined to become
 
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Giegue

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mental_out said:
I don't see how hiring escorts helps you avoid any of that lol
 
BlkPillPres

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mental_out said:
I don't see how hiring escorts helps you avoid any of that lol

Any of what?

Be specific, because the I'm pretty sure hiring escorts stops you from being a permavirgin and makes it pointless to buy a sex doll

So which things that I mentioned in my post does it not help with?

Salustio said:
It's over for validationcels. It's over if you believe in Santa Claus. It's over if you are a grown up egoist child who want to feel "loved" by a foid.

Validationcels are the only ones who I cannot support, because they are women worshippers, enablers of feminism.

My point exactly
 
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littlemanhikicel said:
Idk if he is a fakecel but FrustratedWhiteMale @FrustratedWhiteMale must be a mentalcel as you say and a man with serious autistic problems. I can relate to him because I'm oldcel too and is hard to wake up and realize that you have a big problem beeing a virgin at certain age, but of course he have to do something about that as OP say going to a another country, scortcelling,etc. But if he can cope with dolls I respect that.
I think he has some kind of mental disability.
Don't forget he has an unfixed hernia. He is fucked.
 
Deleted member 8353

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BlkPillPres said:
Its not just about not escortcelling, its the mindset they have that leads to them not escortcelling, being egotistical, that core thing to their personage, is why they won't do ANYTHING, fuck escortcelling, they won't do ANYTHING AT ALL, they are unwilling to make any sacrifice to get what they want from life, all they ever do is complain and come up with more volcel excuses as to why doing nothing but complaining is a good choice
Well in my case I'm too high inhib to do something like that, I can't currently afford it, and I'd probably be too nervous to even get hard. However I don't see any problem with escortcelling, the threads where you're talked about the problems of seeking validation I completely agree with. That's all I meant.
 
Saung-Hui Cho

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MSCW said:
I think he has some kind of mental disability.
Don't forget he has an unfixed hernia. He is fucked.

That hernia shit scares me. My friend went in for a cat scan on his abdomen, and they said he has a hernia. But they said insurance considers it cosmetic so they couldn’t do anything about it (I think unless he paid.)

I don’t want to get one of those, or I hope I don’t have one already.
 
Insomniac

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I would still rather stay virgin than fuck a cum dumpster
 
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BlkPillPres said:
I'm pretty sure hiring escorts stops you from being a permavirgin and makes it pointless to buy a sex doll
low IQ

you by a sexdoll once than you can pretty much have sex whenever you want without paying money, going somewhere, contacting someone etc all the things you had to do with escortceling. buying sexdoll= a lot of money once, than spending a lot more money is optional.
prostitutes= every time lots of money.
 
BlkPillPres

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Insomniac said:
I would still rather stay virgin than fuck a cum dumpster

So you won't date the average woman today then, so its virgin or nothing for you?

Well what are you ACTUALLY DOING to increase your chances of getting a virgin woman?

There are things you can do, but like I told Deleted member 8353 @LiterallyASoyboy:
BlkPillPres said:
Its not just about not escortcelling, its the mindset they have that leads to them not escortcelling, being egotistical, that core thing to their personage, is why they won't do ANYTHING, fuck escortcelling, they won't do ANYTHING AT ALL, they are unwilling to make any sacrifice to get what they want from life, all they ever do is complain and come up with more volcel excuses as to why doing nothing but complaining is a good choice



Hentai-Connoisseur said:
low IQ

you by a sexdoll once than you can pretty much have sex whenever you want without paying money

Low IQ

You buy a sex doll once, then you can pretty much masturbate using a giant flesh light whenever you want, with the included troubles and fees of lube, cleaning and maintenance of your doll

Sex takes place between multiple individuals, stop coping, if you are the only living creature involved in the interaction ITS JUST MASTURBATION

You guys sound delusional as hell, speaking as if the doll is alive, ultimate copers holy shit, max level mental gymnastics
 
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Damn so many users and guests viewing this topic.

As for the topic at hand, much like other users here, I can't afford an escort and I'm too high inhib to even attempt at it even if I wanted, plus my anxiety will likely hold me back. I'm willing to settle with a sexdoll made to look like some of my waifus, but like with escorts I'm unable to afford it. Sucks being a poorcel. :feelsrope:

Furthermore I doubt I'll reach 57, I'll likely have roped by then.
 
Hentai-Connoisseur

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BlkPillPres said:
You buy a sex doll once, then you can pretty much masturbate using a giant flesh light whenever you want, with the included troubles and fees of lube, cleaning and maintenance of your doll
the money you spend will afterwards for lube and maintanance will not be that much tbh. fucking a few hookers you might be well over the price of a sexdoll, after some more way over lube and maintanance for her for a long time. also you might catch STDs
BlkPillPres said:
Sex takes place between multiple individuals, stop coping, if you are the only living creature involved in the interaction ITS JUST MASTURBATION
yeah sorry you are right its just masturbation, sex wasnt the right word.
BlkPillPres said:
You guys sound delusional as hell, speaking as if the doll is alive, ultimate copers holy shit, max level mental gymnastics
I take that as a compliment

It seems like you are very eager to push escortceling
BlkPillPres said:
:cryfeels:

but i guess we are moving further and further from you original post, I dont even know what we are argueing here really. but tbh I dont think that was your best post op. this is your future? dude we are on a incel forum. we are fucked. everybody knows that. i dont think you really stated anything interesting or new here.
 
Akkadian

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Whoever wants to go escortceling can go ahead, but it's not about ego that I don't wish to do it, but the fact that I don't want to give whores money just for them to sleep with me. I don't want to help them in any way, they already live life on tutorial mode, why should I make it even easier for them?
 
Schizoidcel

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Akkadian said:
Whoever wants to go escortceling can go ahead, but it's not about ego that I don't wish to do it, but the fact that I don't want to give whores money just for them to sleep with me. I don't want to help them in any way, they already live life on tutorial mode, why should I make it even easier for them?
mental_out said:
I don't see how hiring escorts helps you avoid any of that lol
 
BlkPillPres

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Akkadian said:
why should I make it even easier for them?

1. It is about ego

2. You are using copes like this as an excuse - "A single man boycotting a system makes a difference"

NO IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE

Your few shekels doesn't "maker it harder" for them, nor does it really "make it easier"

It would be like me saying I'm not going to shop at X store because I think the owner is making too much money - "You'll get none of my few hundred bucks richfag, that will show you"

(Richfag drives past you in a mercedes unaware of your insignificant existence)

You are coping by even lying to yourself that your boycott makes a difference, and you are using that lie as an excuse to veil the real issue, your ego, you don't want to pay for it, because you see sex as something to be earned, and you see yourself as a man "good enough" to earn it, you are an egoist and you value female validation (which is female worship)

You can try all manner of mental gymnastics to try and rationalize this as anything you want, at the end of the day it comes down to ego, if you are even considering what these women are getting out of it, rather than what you are getting out of it, its because you see them as people and not as objects, and its because you value what they think of you, a key trait of guys like you IS VALUING FEMALE VALIDATION.
 
BigGhey

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Akkadian said:
Whoever wants to go escortceling can go ahead, but it's not about ego that I don't wish to do it, but the fact that I don't want to give whores money just for them to sleep with me. I don't want to help them in any way, they already live life on tutorial mode, why should I make it even easier for them?
tbh this is why I am kind of sceptitcal about escortcelling?

any advice BlkPillPres @BlkPillPres ?
 
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BlkPillPres said:
with the included troubles and fees of lube, cleaning and maintenance of your doll

Not to mention the humiliation of others finding out about it. Frankly I’d be paranoid whenever I left my house. What if whoever you’re living with found out? Even if you live by yourself, what if somebody somehow sees? It may not be the end of the world, but it would still be humiliating.
 
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BlkPillPres said:
1. It is about ego

2. You are using copes like this as an excuse - "A single man boycotting a system makes a difference"

NO IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE

Your few shekels doesn't "maker it harder" for them, nor does it really "make it easier"

It would be like me saying I'm not going to shop at X store because I think the owner is making too much money - "You'll get none of my few hundred bucks richfag, that will show you"

(Richfag drives past you in a mercedes unaware of your insignificant existence)

You are coping by even lying to yourself that your boycott makes a difference, and you are using that lie as an excuse to veil the real issue, your ego, you don't want to pay for it, because you see sex as something to be earned, and you see yourself as a man "good enough" to earn it, you are an egoist and you value female validation (which is female worship)

You can try all manner of mental gymnastics to try and rationalize this as anything you want, at the end of the day it comes down to ego, if you are even considering what these women are getting out of it, rather than what you are getting out of it, its because you see them as people and not as objects, and its because you value what they think of you, a key trait of guys like you IS VALUING FEMALE VALIDATION.
Even then I would never feel content paying a whore to fuck me
 
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MSCW said:
I think he has some kind of mental disability.
Don't forget he has an unfixed hernia. He is fucked.
And of course not NT like us but older. It's over , let the man cope with his sex dolls , I'll buy one if have some money.
 
BlkPillPres

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BigGhey said:
tbh this is why I am kind of sceptitcal about escortcelling?

any advice BlkPillPres @BlkPillPres ?

My response to him:
BlkPillPres said:
1. It is about ego

2. You are using copes like this as an excuse - "A single man boycotting a system makes a difference"

NO IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE

Your few shekels doesn't "maker it harder" for them, nor does it really "make it easier"

It would be like me saying I'm not going to shop at X store because I think the owner is making too much money - "You'll get none of my few hundred bucks richfag, that will show you"

(Richfag drives past you in a mercedes unaware of your insignificant existence)

You are coping by even lying to yourself that your boycott makes a difference, and you are using that lie as an excuse to veil the real issue, your ego, you don't want to pay for it, because you see sex as something to be earned, and you see yourself as a man "good enough" to earn it, you are an egoist and you value female validation (which is female worship)

You can try all manner of mental gymnastics to try and rationalize this as anything you want, at the end of the day it comes down to ego, if you are even considering what these women are getting out of it, rather than what you are getting out of it, its because you see them as people and not as objects, and its because you value what they think of you, a key trait of guys like you IS VALUING FEMALE VALIDATION.



Akkadian said:
Even then I would never feel content paying a whore to fuck me

I know, its because your ego is staked in your ability to attract a female, you were socialized for years as a boy to value this and to chase after it, its just sad that as someone who has supposedly become black pilled, and can be introspective and see the world for what it is, you can't just shake off the shackles of your indoctrination, some men are just trapped and eternally damaged by what this world has done to them and influenced their mind, I won't be one of those men, I won't place limitations on myself, be it ego or morality, that shit is for men who can afford to do it, men who can easily find satisfaction in life even with those handicaps (CHADS)

Chads can afford to place ego and morality based handicaps on their thoughts and actions, WE CAN'T, and that's what makes you a volcel, you are basically acting as if you are Chad and have Chad priviledges.
 
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TheProphetMuscle

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I'm not really for or against it. I tried it once and it kinda sucked. I didn't know the whore at all except for the fact that she is a cum dumpster for a living which was gross. Yea most foids are total whores but I just don't like paying money to stick my dick in a hole that a bunch of other gross guys paid to stick their dicks in. It also can really hurt a man's self-worth having to pay for it while other guys get it for free. I just see it as a cope
 
PPEcel

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Escorts are a cope. If you're in the right city with the right budget it can work out pretty well.
 
BlkPillPres

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TheProphetMuscle said:
It also can really hurt a man's self-worth having to pay for it while other guys get it for free.

1. You are just admitting that you are blinded by ego and care too much about this false construct of "self" you've built up over the years, you aren't anything great to be thinking of "self worth", you're nothing

That's the irony of guys like you larping all over this site saying - "its over boyoooooos, I'm a subhuman, it never even began" and then in your next breath you are talking about "self-worth", what self worth I thought you were subhuman, I thought you were incel, you guys need to make up your damn mind, and stop monkey branching to which ever perspective suits your current argument

Are you subhuman, an undesirable incel, low on the human totem pole
OR
Are you a human of worth

IT CAN'T BE BOTH, STOP COPING, PICK A SIDE, DECIDE YOUR PATH

Pussy footing about and not taking a stance only leads to stagnation, leads to you going nowhere in life and being indecisive

2. Please stop with this "sex is free" BS lie, its not true, you can repeat it as many times as you want it will never be true, there's always an exception to the rule, BUT THE RULE IS THAT MEN PAY FOR SEX

 
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Seeing escorts is the same as doing drugs, just a temporary cover for the pain and loneliness and when the high wears off you feel worse than you did before.

You can also get deluded and when reality slaps you back in line it's the most painful thing that can happen to you..such a low shitty feeling

You can see my evolution in thinking on the subject, when I 1st started posting here I was still pro hooker but it's no different than drug addiction

I'm not saying don't use them because then I would be a hypocrite as I still see a few..but seeing hookers has many downsides that are not apparent at 1st..

I would not be alive though without seeing p4p women over the years..such a mixed bag
 
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BlkPillPres

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Incel801 said:
when the high wears off you feel worse than you did before.

Your ego is showing, why do you feel worse?....... could it be perhaps because you think you've "let yourself down" by doing something "beneath you"

Do you see the irony in thinking like this, while coming on a such a site to refer to yourself as "incel"?

Incel801 said:
I would not be alive though without seeing p4p women over the years..such a mixed bag

Its not mixed or anything, its pretty straightforward, it feels conflicting FOR YOU, because you are struggling with having an ego and having a solution to your cravings that eats away at that ego, you don't want to give up either, but they both are at odds, for men like me there is no such mental anguish, no such inner struggle.

I think guys like you go into escortcelling with the wrong mindset to begin with so you can never be satisfied by it, I stopped caring about any "sense of self worth", and stopped empathizing for the most part, long before I even considered escortcelling, so once I got there, it was a no brainer, I feel no regret, all I feel is satisfaction

Problem is you didn't kill your ego before you went into this, if you "feel worse" after paying for sex, ITS BECAUSE YOU THINK HIGHLY OF YOURSELF AND SEE YOURSELF AS "ABOVE" SUCH AN ACT

I don't see myself as above anything, I'll do whatever I have to do, to get what I want

You guys need to stop projecting your ego onto others and speaking as if your experience will apply to black pillers, you just aren't there yet, if you still have an ego that big you are still blue pilled, you think too highly of yourself ironically while thinking of yourself as incel

Responses like yours always just confuse me because you don't see the obvious contradiction in having such a huge ego and thinking of yourself as an incel
 
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BlkPillPres said:
1. It is about ego

2. You are using copes like this as an excuse - "A single man boycotting a system makes a difference"

NO IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE

Your few shekels doesn't "maker it harder" for them, nor does it really "make it easier"

It would be like me saying I'm not going to shop at X store because I think the owner is making too much money - "You'll get none of my few hundred bucks richfag, that will show you"

(Richfag drives past you in a mercedes unaware of your insignificant existence)

You are coping by even lying to yourself that your boycott makes a difference, and you are using that lie as an excuse to veil the real issue, your ego, you don't want to pay for it, because you see sex as something to be earned, and you see yourself as a man "good enough" to earn it, you are an egoist and you value female validation (which is female worship)

You can try all manner of mental gymnastics to try and rationalize this as anything you want, at the end of the day it comes down to ego, if you are even considering what these women are getting out of it, rather than what you are getting out of it, its because you see them as people and not as objects, and its because you value what they think of you, a key trait of guys like you IS VALUING FEMALE VALIDATION.
You're spot on about the female validation among these guys that bash escortcelling that is absolutely it,I had a friend that used to see escorts enjoyed it until he went to college and some cuck there told him it was wrong and he could easily get a female and then he got into the whole PUA trend at the time and got a shitty career that is repetitive daily cycle and now is stuck in every way possible and has no female after 5 years of this new approach of socializing and basically being as normie as possible he just doesn't get it that
these people(trendies,normies etc) will never accept him no matter what he does because he is taken at face value much as everyone
is,myself on the other hand doesn't have this problem of seeking validation from females or society at all I'm an opportunist I don't work for anyone but myself I make my money off of the idiot public and I see escorts not regularly but I do and have no guilt whatsoever
if anything these females should feel inadequate because they need men they need guys like us to survive I don't necessarily need
them and I contribute as little as possible and get as much as I can why I earth someone would want one of these hoes for a relationship is beyond me because these escorts are in fact just average women you see everyday I'm paying 80-100 hh to get
what I want from them without any commitment that is peanuts in my opinion these bitches are getting the short end of the stick.
 
TheProphetMuscle

TheProphetMuscle

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BlkPillPres said:
1. You are just admitting that you are blinded by ego and care too much about this false construct of "self" you've built up over the years, you aren't anything great to be thinking of "self worth", you're nothing

That's the irony of guys like you larping all over this site saying - "its over boyoooooos, I'm a subhuman, it never even began" and then in your next breath you are talking about "self-worth", what self worth I thought you were subhuman, I thought you were incel, you guys need to make up your damn mind, and stop monkey branching to which ever perspective suits your current argument

Are you subhuman, an undesirable incel, low on the human totem pole
OR
Are you a human of worth

IT CAN'T BE BOTH, STOP COPING, PICK A SIDE, DECIDE YOUR PATH

Pussy footing about and not taking a stance only leads to stagnation, leads to you going nowhere in life and being indecisive

2. Please stop with this "sex is free" BS lie, its not true, you can repeat it as many times as you want it will never be true, there's always an exception to the rule, BUT THE RULE IS THAT MEN PAY FOR SEX

All I said was that it is emasculating for a man to have pay for it. Do you think Chads and Tyrones have to pay for a hooker? No, they go to parties or bars and hook up with foids and end up fucking in a car or in the back. The foid won’t want money to fuck Chad. I’m pathetic but it makes me feel even worse having to pay a foid for sex while other guys don’t have to pay the foid. It’s added suicide fuel
 
Deleted member 4760

Deleted member 4760

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OP is right though.

None of us cant get laid.
Why deprive ourselves of the very little pleasure we can have?

ESPCIALLY since the guy he's speaking about copes with fucking thousnad dollar sex dolls (which is beyond degenrate and cucked imo).

I wont glorify escortceling as its just another cope, such as drinking, taking drugs or playing vidya but might as well enjoy the very little of life you can enjoy instead of fucking sex dolls i dont know man.

Guy is 57 year old; every guy his age in his situation has went to Thailand to get some fun before they die, yet this guy has still persisted in fucking sex dolls in what I beleive is his mom's basement.

Being Incel at 60 is one thing, but in no shape or form will I wanna get to this point of cucked coping.
Might not get love or valiadation fomr raosties but I will def get some real acutal pussy.

Sex will actually help you focus on other things for a while even if its loveless sex.
A positive experience with a hookers can do wonders for your mental state, im speaking of experiences here.
Sexually deprived men like us kind of become mad without realizing it when we spends too many years without emptying our balls.
Those who can live their life without sex at all, especially being in their prime youth, are you sure you have good amount of Testosterones or maybe just low key gay?
 
Sitokirment

Sitokirment

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Involuntary celibacy requires involuntary celibacy
 
Deleted member 4760

Deleted member 4760

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In any case I dont wanna bash FrustratedWhiteMale @FrustratedWhiteMale too much sinc ehe is living proably an even greater pain than us and just saying the he should free himself from his mental constraint is the exact same thing cucktears tell us but I definitely hope he finds some coping relief tbh.
 
Dregster666

Dregster666

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DeformAspergerCel said:
yeah, I have at least 10 different possible routes thought out before accepting that it's over. Keeps me preoccupied if nothing else
 
FinnCel

FinnCel

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OP is a chad
 
Dregster666

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Invalidusername said:
Faggot Avatar
Akkadian said:
I don't want to give whores money just for them to sleep with me.
Massive fucking cope

At some point or another, ALL men pay to get sex if they want to have a foid in their life. Nobody outside of Chad gets it for free, and guess what? Chad pays too when he decides to settle down.
TheProphetMuscle said:
It also can really hurt a man's self-worth having to pay for it while other guys get it for free. I just see it as a cope

Lmao 80% of males that have sex pay for it. Without money, too many men would have sexless lives.

NOBODY outside of Chad gets it for free.
Themisanthropicones said:
You're spot on about the female validation among these guys that bash escortcelling that is absolutely it,I had a friend that used to see escorts enjoyed it until he went to college and some cuck there told him it was wrong and he could easily get a female and then he got into the whole PUA trend at the time and got a shitty career that is repetitive daily cycle and now is stuck in every way possible and has no female after 5 years of this new approach of socializing and basically being as normie as possible he just doesn't get it that
these people(trendies,normies etc) will never accept him no matter what he does because he is taken at face value much as everyone
is,myself on the other hand doesn't have this problem of seeking validation from females or society at all I'm an opportunist I don't work for anyone but myself I make my money off of the idiot public and I see escorts not regularly but I do and have no guilt whatsoever
if anything these females should feel inadequate because they need men they need guys like us to survive I don't necessarily need
them and I contribute as little as possible and get as much as I can why I earth someone would want one of these hoes for a relationship is beyond me because these escorts are in fact just average women you see everyday I'm paying 80-100 hh to get
what I want from them without any commitment that is peanuts in my opinion these bitches are getting the short end of the stick.
Lmao Based Post
 
Last edited:
Anoncel123

Anoncel123

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I prefer to be a MGTOWcel than an escort"cel" tbh. I'm high inhib and dicklet anyways.