@Nostradamus
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We keep plenty of commandments. And yes, the Law of Moses has been fulfilled and we are now under the Law of Jesus, which is the fulfillment of the Law of Moses.
The council that banned icons wasn't ecumenical anyway. Only Nicaea II was ecumenical so it doesn't really matter.
The law of Jesus is the law of Moses with some clarifications. If you're not keeping the law of Moses, you're not keeping the law of Jesus. What Jesus said to the Pharisees rings true against the clergy of today:
I can tell you that they never neglected the herbs. Plenty of basil and bay leaves. But where was the justice? How can one observe justice if the law is erased from the religion? What is he even complaining about here if the law is "fulfilled" (abrogated)?
Oops! [canned laughter]
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That's an incomplete description of the Law of Jesus. The Law of Jesus is what the Law of Moses was originally supposed to be, what God intended it to be. And all those verses don't amount to anything, considering it is prior to Jesus fulfilling the Law.
Jesus tells you here in Luke 21:32 esv :-
"Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place."
Now Jesus tells you that the fulfillment of the prophets and the Law will take place in his generation. Now as EO we don't believe in full preterism, we believe in half-preterism, so we believe when Jesus says all will take place he means all the things that he came here to do while he was on Earth incarnated in his generation, but is also going to be fulfilled in another way in his second coming. And so things can have different kinds of fulfillment.
This is backed by Luke 24:44 - 47 ESV:-
" 44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for[a] the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem."
He specifically tells you what he came to fulfill in his generation, which is the fulfillment of the Law. The destruction of the temple at 70AD fully completes everything to be passed in Luke 21:32.
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Fuck off materialistic atheist twat
Yeah bro God actually didn't want people executed for adultery and murder, it was just temporary, he wants you to forgive them and act surprised when they cheat and murder again. --some bullshit artist in a man-dress, I mean Father Alexandros
>until heaven and earth pass
>heaven and earth haven't passed
>BRO IT HAPPENED BRO THE LAW IS GONE
He uses generation to mean a people, like an ethnic or religious group, not people born roughly during the same decade. You want to bitch about English translation issues and you try to pass this off? Are you just stupid or twice the son of hell your priest is?
It's clear to anyone who has eyes to see that fulfillment refers to fulfilling prophecy, not deleting laws. The entire notion of the law being fulfilled is a lie the man-dresses came up with because they didn't want to actually obey God. Jesus fulfilled the messianic prophecy, and he expounded the law, and stressed that the law isn't going anywhere, but the Greeks and Romans didn't want to get circumcised, so they perverted his religion to the point that it's the shit-show we see today.
This is a foretelling of events that will come long after the passion, so it is fair to say that he is speaking of a time after the "fulfillment." He expects people to still observe the sabbath. Show this to your priest, and turn your bullshit detector to maximum, because bullshit is coming.
D
Uhm....Again we believe in half-preterism, so we believe the destruction of the temple is the heaven and earth passing away, as many Jews considered the temple to be the divine division between heaven and earth. Also, I don't agree on your interpretation of Matthew 5:17-19, what Jesus is saying the time between now and the heaven and earth passing away is where Jesus is going to fulfill the Law but the heaven and earth passing away is when the Law is going to be completely passed away with (albeit his 2nd coming, but was fulfilled in another way at the destruction of the temple), we do not believe the Law of Moses is passed away but fulfilled in Christ in his covenant. We do not believe heaven and earth passing away is something he came to fulfill which is a direct contradiction to verse 17 (as the heaven and earth passing away has nothing to do with Jesus's actions or prophecies about him) and Luke 24:44-47. All that he came to fulfill and accomplish is laid out in Luke 24:44-47, so no the ceremonial like Laws are certainty not something we are bound to today.
Except, one of the meanings of the Greek word "genea" literally means generation?
So you admit he fulfilled the Law and the Prophets?
Not necessarily. He is either saying the destruction of the temple/Jerusalem is going to happen on the Sabbath or that people are still going to be participating on the Sabbath, which doesn't necessarily mean he EXPECTS them to. Plus, I don't see what your problem about that is, Orthodox still keep the Sabbath, albeit on the Saturday.
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For me, The Logos/The Son is the only real spirit. I do not believe in Spirits, plural. I just believe in THE SPIRIT aka the Son aka The Logos.
I guess that means you can pick the meaning that makes the least sense imaginable.
You're an idiot if that's what you got from this.
Are you retarded? "Pray that ... may not be"
>he thinks this is a prediction
I feel bad that I'm picking on you now, that's how dumb this reply is.
LOL. Good one. That was such a stupid attempt to erase scripture that you deserve a man-dress of your own.
Yeah bro, we still keep the seventh day, just on the first day. God doesn't care what day really. Except he does, see Exodus with the manna.
Not if it is an hallucination brought on but mental illness
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Nope, it makes the most sense.
You rabble on while refuting yourself.
>stupidly makes a strawman
>thinks he is making good syllogisms and refutations when he is making non-sequiturs
Thanks
Low IQ. Orthodox use the Gregorian Calendar where Sunday is the first day of the week. Yikes.
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>m-muh refuting yourself
>m-muh syllogisms
>s-straw man!
You don't know what those words even mean.
Just a reminder, I've been the one backing up my arguments with scripture, you've been doing nothing but squirming like a greased snake. Like the messiah told us, the Pharisees make their converts twice the sons of hell that they are. Anathema!
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"Wow Look at me I can denigrate my opponents and make myself look smart while getting decimated in a debate and making numerous fallacies!"
@Dramus17
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Funny how you use the word anathema when you are aren't even connected by Christ's church.
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Concession accepted
If you think you won, will you read a bible for the first time in your life?
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Will you read the Bible the right way around this time?
You're welcome for the bible lesson. Maybe someday you'll be able to quote scripture too!
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>Literally quotes scripture
>Tells me I didn't quote scripture
>Says I squirm like a greased snake even though he ignores mountains of my rebuttals and resorts to personal attacks
Yeah right. Get tested for psychosis, you are unfathomably delusional.
Where? Literally nowhere. Calling yourself a Christian isn't the only lie you told today!
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Uhm..Literally quoting couple verses of Luke, and one of Matthew.
Is that white-straight jacket comfy? Hope you don't get bored.
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What is the beef between you 2, @Dramus17 and @JudeoBiden ?
I understand where @Dramus17 is coming from (Eastern Orthodoxy), but I am not sure about you, @JudeoBiden. Do you consider yourself a practicing Jew or do you just adopt this perspective for the sake of argument?
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He is probably a Judaizer.
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Lol, also this retard @JudeoBiden tells me I don't know what a syllogism is when he literally makes one :-
>Law passes away when heaven and earth passes away
>Heaven and Earth has not passed away
>Therefore Law has not passed away
I repeatedly address those arguments and premises, and while he doesn't address any of my rebutalls he sits on his imaginary throne of self-conceit acting like he dominates.
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D
Spirits exist tbh
I see
Did he say so?
Based
@Rotter
I am a true Christian. I don't let midwits in dresses tell me what to think, I seek God with my own conscience. I got my start in Christianity in an Eastern Orthodox church. It was a den of snakes and the bullshitter in a man-dress preached so many lies under color of authority that I know them very well. I hate the Antichrist, his servants, and his lies, and I put them to light where I see them.
Since you want to mediate, let me ask you, who is clearly better-read here? Who is providing evidence for all of his claims? What have I said that I haven't supported? The other, what evidence has he shown for any of his claims?
Yeah this is what the followers of the Antichrist say about people who don't turn their backs on the law of Moses. It's also an indicator of low IQ to equate the Old Testament with Judaism. The Old Testament is the foundation for all the Abrahamic faiths. Whoever denies the Old Testament denies God, and whoever denies God is denied by God in the end of days.
Judaization is the belief that salvation can be achieved through following the law of Moses alone. That is the only thing it means, and nothing more. However, servants of the Antichrist like to call people who deny that the law of Moses is nullified Judaizers as a way to try to silence them. The law of Moses is eternal and binding, but not complete, and it is using it as a foundation that Jesus gave his law:
These are drawn exactly from the ten commandments from the law of Moses. Every single thing Jesus said, with very few exceptions, expounded and clarified the law of Moses. That's because his law is the same as the law he gave to Moses. When asked which is the greatest commandment, he says
And to his disciples, he says
At what point does it sound like Jesus did away with the law? Nowhere. Only the Antichrist can convince someone to look at the truth and see a lie. If you would say you really believe, start believing the words that came out of his mouth, and not the words of men in dresses.
Now, the law of Moses is not complete, and Jesus came to complete it. But the final puzzle piece is not the completed puzzle. Would a puzzle be complete if you swept it off the table and slapped down the final piece? No. The final piece must be fitted into the rest of the puzzle. This is where two groups go wrong:
- The Pharisees, whom we today call the Jews, go wrong by discarding the final piece.
- The false Christians go wrong by discarding the rest of the puzzle.
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Uhm...the Orthodox Church follows all the commandments mentioned by Jesus in those verses.
Also, that's not what a Judaizer means, or else they would just be considered Jews. Go read Acts 15:5, it tells you they were also believers in Jesus and not just the Law of Moses, and that they believed in compulsory circumcision and other dietary laws to keep the Law of Moses. But they did not believe following the Law of Moses ALONE was the path to salvation. So yes, you are still a Judaizer.
Good to see you can't address a single bit of scripture I referenced. Does this qualify as an exorcism?
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LolGood to see you can't address a single bit of scripture I referenced. Does this qualify as an exorcism?
@Dramus17 and @JudeoBiden Thanks for clarifying your respective positions.
Interestingly, I think that you are both wrong on some things. So, if you agree, this will be an interesting debate between 3 positions which have a lot in common (the Bible + 2000 years of Christianity) but reach slightly different conclusions. If you allow me, I would summarize it thus:
Interestingly, I think that you are both wrong on some things. So, if you agree, this will be an interesting debate between 3 positions which have a lot in common (the Bible + 2000 years of Christianity) but reach slightly different conclusions. If you allow me, I would summarize it thus:
- @Dramus17 is a traditional Christian, who belongs to a long established tradition (Eastern Orthodoxy). Because of this, he is close to Catholicism but believes in things that most protestant reject (the Real Presence in the Host, ordination of the clergy through the imposition of hands, etc)
- @JudeoBiden is a self-taught (I assume) independent Christian who left the same branch of traditional Christianity but rejected some of its teachings. It seems indeed that some of your positions approach those of so-called "judaizing" semi-Christians described at different periods by various texts. I am not absolutely sure that the term "Judaizer" is appropriate, though.
- Personally, I follow a more radical path, which involves a complete re-evaluation of all Jewish and Christian texts. For example, I do not believe that Jesus Christ ever was a real person. However, I do believe that the expression "the Logos" or "the Son" does refer to something real, which is represented by the white design on my AV picture.
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