The "volcels" can never be 100% perfect voluntary, the "incels" can never be 0% perfect involuntary.
Our free will, our choice, no matter what group we are in, always exists somewhere in the murky middle. Whether it's 99/1 or 75/25 or 50/50 or 25/75 or 1/99 we have to face facts here.
Such numbers are also clearly not representative of any kind of absolute state, since they are entirely relative to who you're comparing them to.
1) Whether a man IDs as "volcel" or "incel", he is overwhelmingly likely to be incel in regard to fucking Ivanka Trump, because it's not feasible to accomplish fucking her. You couldn't even rape if you were willing to throw your life away as a consequence, she's unassailable. To be an exception to this, you'd need to be some 1-in-a-million guy with enhanced abilities.
Anyone claiming he is "volcel" in respect to Ivanka is basically full of shit, because he could only engage this in a way-too-hypothetical fantasy that he could never believe in hard enough to give true feel-out for.
2) Whether a man IDs as "volcel" or "incel", he is overwhelmingly likely to be volcel in regard to fucking Eman Ahmed Abd El Aty, because it is feasible to accomplish fucking her but if you say you put forth any kind of effort towards pursuing her, nobody is going to believe you. To be an exception to this, you'd need to be some 1-in-a-million guy who fetishizes superobese women.
Anyone claiming to be "incel" to Eman Aty tier 0.5/10s is in this hypothetical dream realm where you know that his heart would never truly be in such a pursuit when we compare it to the effort men have traditionally put into pursuing women.
The waters get muddied when we look at cases which fall between these extremes. But we should recognize that only would our % dedication to foids vary from foid-to-foid, they also vary moment-to-moment in our own lives.
There are feedback loops at work here:
1) "incels" seem to think that because their choice to be celibate is based on negligible chances of finding fulfilling sex, that it somehow is not a choice
2) "volcels" seem to think that because they recognize that they are making a choice, that they are somehow 100% content with their lives, and that this choice wasn't shaped by things out of their control, such as revelations about how disappointing relationships are destined to be.
There seem to be perception problems in each respective echo chamber, born part in isolation, with endless purity spiraling as we needlessly move apart from each other semantically while trying to invent differences between each other.
In all likelihood, what is probably happening is members of one community are alienated by extremists in the other, and where they end up will tend to be in which community grosses them out the least, offends them the least.
This is a losing effort because we shouldn't fear being unsettled, and should be engaging with one another. I think there are people who try to participate in both collections of humanity, who feel drawn to elements of both, who don't accept this division. Who want us to wade into each other and clash our ideas and come to some forms of understanding, whilst tolerating disagreement in others.
If there are those at either end of the pool who are not open to such a meeting of celibate minds, then those who are can at least acknowledge how we are misled by either label... as we shall neither consistently (or believably) be pure in voluntariness or in involuntariness, we should collectively be not merely celibates... but UNIVERcelibates... because we recognize as individuals we are a universe of meshing involuntary impulses and factors shaped by a voluntary sapient mind which wades through it.
Our free will, our choice, no matter what group we are in, always exists somewhere in the murky middle. Whether it's 99/1 or 75/25 or 50/50 or 25/75 or 1/99 we have to face facts here.
Such numbers are also clearly not representative of any kind of absolute state, since they are entirely relative to who you're comparing them to.
1) Whether a man IDs as "volcel" or "incel", he is overwhelmingly likely to be incel in regard to fucking Ivanka Trump, because it's not feasible to accomplish fucking her. You couldn't even rape if you were willing to throw your life away as a consequence, she's unassailable. To be an exception to this, you'd need to be some 1-in-a-million guy with enhanced abilities.
Anyone claiming he is "volcel" in respect to Ivanka is basically full of shit, because he could only engage this in a way-too-hypothetical fantasy that he could never believe in hard enough to give true feel-out for.
2) Whether a man IDs as "volcel" or "incel", he is overwhelmingly likely to be volcel in regard to fucking Eman Ahmed Abd El Aty, because it is feasible to accomplish fucking her but if you say you put forth any kind of effort towards pursuing her, nobody is going to believe you. To be an exception to this, you'd need to be some 1-in-a-million guy who fetishizes superobese women.
Anyone claiming to be "incel" to Eman Aty tier 0.5/10s is in this hypothetical dream realm where you know that his heart would never truly be in such a pursuit when we compare it to the effort men have traditionally put into pursuing women.
The waters get muddied when we look at cases which fall between these extremes. But we should recognize that only would our % dedication to foids vary from foid-to-foid, they also vary moment-to-moment in our own lives.
There are feedback loops at work here:
1) "incels" seem to think that because their choice to be celibate is based on negligible chances of finding fulfilling sex, that it somehow is not a choice
2) "volcels" seem to think that because they recognize that they are making a choice, that they are somehow 100% content with their lives, and that this choice wasn't shaped by things out of their control, such as revelations about how disappointing relationships are destined to be.
There seem to be perception problems in each respective echo chamber, born part in isolation, with endless purity spiraling as we needlessly move apart from each other semantically while trying to invent differences between each other.
In all likelihood, what is probably happening is members of one community are alienated by extremists in the other, and where they end up will tend to be in which community grosses them out the least, offends them the least.
This is a losing effort because we shouldn't fear being unsettled, and should be engaging with one another. I think there are people who try to participate in both collections of humanity, who feel drawn to elements of both, who don't accept this division. Who want us to wade into each other and clash our ideas and come to some forms of understanding, whilst tolerating disagreement in others.
If there are those at either end of the pool who are not open to such a meeting of celibate minds, then those who are can at least acknowledge how we are misled by either label... as we shall neither consistently (or believably) be pure in voluntariness or in involuntariness, we should collectively be not merely celibates... but UNIVERcelibates... because we recognize as individuals we are a universe of meshing involuntary impulses and factors shaped by a voluntary sapient mind which wades through it.
