Blackpill Why do a lot of Incels not believe in determinism? Take the sapolskypill

[alopeciacurrycel]

I always found it a bit weird, I feel like blackpill is merely a subset of deterministic thought, it seems narrowminded to completely focus on your looks as the main culprit behind your terrible life. here is a excerpt from the book "determined" by Robert Sapolsky.

"A stunningly clear statement of this compatibilist dualism concerns Jerry Sandusky, the Penn State football coach who was sentenced to sixty years in prison in 2012 for being a horrific serial child molester. Soon after this, a provocative CNN piece ran under the title “Do Pedophiles Deserve Sympathy?” Psychologist James Cantor of the University of Toronto reviewed the neurobiology of pedophilia. The wrong mix of genes, endocrine abnormalities in fetal life, and childhood head injury all increase the likelihood. Does this raise the possibility that a neurobiological die is cast, that some people are destined to be this way? Precisely. Cantor concludes correctly, “One cannot choose to not be a pedophile.”

But then he does an Olympian leap across the Grand Canyon–size false dichotomy of compatibilism. Does any of that biology lessen the condemnation and punishment that Sandusky deserved? No. “One cannot choose to not be a pedophile, but one can choose to not be a child molester” (my emphasis).[8]

The following table formalizes this dichotomy. On the left are things that most people accept as outside our control—biological stuff. Sure, sometimes we have trouble remembering that. We praise, single out, the chorus member who is an anchor of reliability because of their perfect pitch (which is a biologically heritable trait).[*] We praise a basketball player’s dunk, ignoring that being seven-foot-two has something to do with it. We smile more at someone attractive, are more likely to vote for them in an election, less likely to convict them of a crime. Yeah, yeah, we agree sheepishly when this is pointed out, they obviously didn’t choose the shape of their cheekbones. We’re usually pretty good at remembering that the biological stuff on the left is out of our control.[9]

“Biological stuff”	Do you have grit?
Having destructive sexual urges	Do you resist acting upon them?
Being a natural marathoner	Do you fight through the pain?
Not being all that bright	Do you triumph by studying extra hard?
Having a proclivity toward alcoholism	Do you order ginger ale instead?
Having a beautiful face	Do you resist concluding that you’re entitled to people being nice to you because of it?

And then on the right is the free will you supposedly exercise in choosing what you do with your biological attributes, the you who sits in a bunker in your brain but not of your brain. Your you-ness is made of nanochips, old vacuum tubes, ancient parchments with transcripts of Sunday-morning sermons, stalactites of your mother’s admonishing voice, streaks of brimstone, rivets made out of gumption. Whatever that real you is composed of, it sure ain’t squishy biological brain yuck.

When viewed as evidence of free will, the right side of the chart is a compatibilist playground of blame and praise. It seems so hard, so counterintuitive, to think that willpower is made of neurons, neurotransmitters, receptors, and so on. There seems a much easier answer—willpower is what happens when that nonbiological essence of you is bespangled with fairy dust.

And as one of the most important points of this book, we have as little control over the right side of the chart as over the left. Both sides are equally the outcome of uncontrollable biology interacting with uncontrollable environment."

It is kind of hard to internalize this and try to understand that all humans have very limited agency, everything about you is shaped by your genes and upbringing, for ex. consider the fact you would have a completely different personality with the same genes and parents if your ancestors had decided to adopt a different culture than the one you have currently. It is the neurons in your brain driving your decisions rather than you intentionally shaping or controlling your neurons. Your ability to work hard is predetermined along with your grit or intelligence. Even if you decide to change your life it wasn't really you making that decision rather your upbringing and current situation which were out of your control. The reason you decided to come to this site wasn't really your decision, same as if you decide to leave. I feel this should be the definition of the blackpill rather than exclusively focusing on dating/looks.

 

[chudjak]

Too lazy to write so I'll just repost

 

[alopeciacurrycel]

View attachment 1368539
Too lazy to write so I'll just repost

Ah good to know we already have had some discussion on the same line here

 

[justuseless]

The only determinism is genetic determinism

 

[Sex-Starved Beast]

Most people accept this kind of determinism conceptually, but they ignore it in practice. I mean, what are you supposed to do once you accept that nobody can be blamed nor praised for anything? Give equal salaries to everyone? Ban prisons? Eliminate all kinds of contests, grades, competitions?

 

[alopeciacurrycel]

The only determinism is genetic determinism

Genes are a major part but not the only factor, although it would be unlikely for you have to great genes and born into a shitty env but it is possible

How do different childhoods produce different adults? Sometimes, the most likely pathway seems pretty clear without having to get all neurosciencey. For example, a study examining more than a million people across China and the U.S. showed the effects of growing up in clement weather (i.e., mild fluctuations around an average of seventy degrees). Such individuals are, on the average, more individualistic, extroverted, and open to novel experience. Likely explanation: the world is a safer, easier place to explore growing up when you don’t have to spend significant chunks of each year worrying about dying of hypothermia and/or heatstroke when you go outside, where average income is higher and food stability greater. And the magnitude of the effect isn’t trivial, being equal to or greater than that of age, gender, the country’s GDP, population density, and means of production.[36]

The link between weather clemency in childhood and adult personality can be framed biologically in the most informative way—the former influences the type of brain you’re constructing that you will carry into adulthood. As is almost always the case. For example, lots of childhood stress, by way of glucocorticoids, impairs construction of the frontal cortex, producing an adult less adept at helpful things like impulse control. Lots of exposure to testosterone early in life makes for the construction of a highly reactive amygdala, producing an adult more likely to respond aggressively to provocation.

The nuts and bolts of how this happens revolves around the massively trendy field of “epigenetics,” revealing how early life experience causes long-lasting changes in gene expression in particular brain regions. Now, this is not experience changing genes themselves (i.e., changing DNA sequences), but instead changing their regulation—whether some gene is always active, never active, or active in one context but not another; a lot is known by now about how this works. As one celebrated example, if you’re a baby rat growing up with an atypically inattentive mother,[*] epigenetic changes in the regulation of one gene in your hippocampus will make it harder for you to recover from stress as an adult.[37]

Where do differences in rodential mothering style come from? Obviously, from one second, one minute, one hour, before in that rat mom’s biological history. Knowledge about epigenetic bases of this has grown at breakneck speed, showing, for example, how some epigenetic changes in the brain can have multigenerational consequences (e.g., helping to explain why being a rat, monkey, or human abused in childhood increases the odds of being an abusive parent). Just to show the scale of epigenetic complexity, differences in mothering styles in monkeys cause epigenetic changes in more than a thousand genes expressed in the offspring’s frontal cortex.[38]

 

[justuseless]

Genes are a major part but not the only factor, although it would be unlikely for you have to great genes and born into a shitty env but it is possible

Some bluepilled cope

 

[alopeciacurrycel]

Most people accept this kind of determinism conceptually, but they ignore it in practice. I mean, what are you supposed to do once you accept that nobody can be blamed nor praised for anything? Give equal salaries to everyone? Ban prisons? Eliminate all kinds of contests, grades, competitions?

I disagree most people don't really believe in determinism, hence the normies saying "Just work hard" broo, the right side of the table in the original post kind of gives some examples

 

[chudjak]

Give equal salaries to everyone? Ban prisons? Eliminate all kinds of contests, grades, competitions?

No, just realize everything is rigged, the world isn't just, and you shouldn't beat yourself up over the way you are born as if it's your fault. Nothing wrong with hating people for things they can't control though, they do it to you after all, it's natural and in fact you yourself can't control whether you hate those people or not

 

[chudjak]

The only determinism is genetic determinism

I think that when it comes to who you are and what you feel the closest thing to an internal factor is your genes, but if that doesn't count then it is all external factors, not free will. You will act based off your environment and stimulus, certain feedback brings certain results obviously, if you lived different experiences you would be an entirely different person regardless of genetics.

Anyways,

 

[Sex-Starved Beast]

No, just realize everything is rigged, the world isn't just, and you shouldn't beat yourself up over the way you are born as if it's your fault. Nothing wrong with hating people for things they can't control though, they do it to you after all, it's natural and in fact you yourself can't control whether you hate those people or not

I think that people hate and blame eachother too easily. I understand hating someone, but not blaming him. I always try to empathize with everyone because I know that nobody chooses to make mistakes.

I disagree most people don't really believe in determinism, hence the normies saying "Just work hard" broo, the right side of the table in the original post kind of gives some examples

True. And there are many levels to it. Some actually think that only effort sets the difference between people's achievements, but they are rare and stupid. Most people know that talents, intelligence are given differently to each person.
But what the table is trying to say is that they don't realize that even things like the effort you can put are actually talents.

 

[daydreamER]

Twin experiments prove how important genetics are and how similar twins end up even when they are raised in different environments. I wonder how much of that comes down to the twins looking similar.