Serious When some/most people commit extreme acts, they're "troubled individuals." Why is it when incels commit extreme acts, they're "entitled man-babies?"

[FrothySolutions]

I don't think I'm rocking too many worlds here when I say I think there's a double standard in society. Now, killing people, that's bad. But when some people snap and do the unthinkable, whether it be to unto others or themselves or both, the usual reaction is "We don't condone their actions. But Klebold/Harris/Cho/Huberty/Stack/Aghdam/etc was a troubled individual. It was only by the compulsion of extreme personal anguish and maybe a warped perception of reality that they did what they did. That doesn't mean what they did was okay. What this means is we need to invest in help and support for the people who need it, so this stops happening. This ONLY happened because they were not well, and they didn't get the help they needed."

But along comes the man from Toronto. Doesn't he fit the same bill as all of these other people? Horrible and reprehensible as his actions were? I'm not asking anybody to "excuse" his actions. Just explain to me why he's now an object of fun for some in the media. We didn't laugh at these other people. It wasn't funny. Look at the comments sections of videos of Aghdam encountered by police. Everyone's all "Poor baby. If only someone could've saved her." No one cared to save Alek Minassian. "Point and laugh at the creep" they say. "The sex robots can't come soon enough" they say. It's not mental illness or personal anguish for Alek Minassian. He's not "allowed" to say he's depressed, or that he feels marginalized. His concerns aren't big enough. And so it follows for anyone else labeled an "incel." They "chose" to be this way. Not like all of the other shooters and suicidal teens and body dysmorphics and that one friend of yours who went through that one bad breakup. Incels? They're just babies.

And so I'm like, "I need to reach society, somehow. And ask why this is. If society wants to say they care, explain to me why incels and maybe the MGTOW people don't get the same benefit of the doubt." And I don't think I'm alone in feeling like this. I think a lot of people are upset with societal standards, and even if they don't think it's realistic, they want to be heard. I've been asking around in the Norman circles, and I can't find a consistent answer. No one, no not one, can give me a consistent reason for why thinking "I'm ugly and the world hates me, time to go proana" is tragic and self-destructive, but understandable and we need to help this person, but thinking "I'm ugly and the world hates me, so I hate the world and I'll seek the company of other people who hate the world" is all the incel's fault.

Some people answer "Well it's just they say such horrible things, such hateful things." But we've covered before, people think, say, and do horrible things out of personal anguish. Know what's horrible? Murder. Murder is horrible. But somehow we can, while not condoning, understand "It came from personal anguish." So why can't the same understanding be extended to incels? Incels who probably never even murdered anybody before?

Some say "Yeah, but... incels have no reason to be depressed. It's just because they can't get laid. It's not like they experienced REAL abuse!" Meanwhile teenagers, children, are slicing themselves up and drinking Tide Pods because Chad and Stacy are havin' a giggle about their body odor. We don't condone slicing yourself up. But we understand that this is only happening because this kid isn't getting the support they need. So why is "They make fun of me at school and the boy I like rejected me" a reason to be depressed, but "They make fun of me at work and everyone I've ever loved rejected me" is something you have to just suck up?

Some people answer "Oh no, it's understandable that someone can become depressed. But it's these incel communities that turn people hateful. If it wasn't for Incels.me indoctrinating people, they wouldn't become radicalized." I disagree. You don't need Incels.me to be angry at the world. The people here who are angry, they didn't get that way because of Incels.me. The world made them angry, and THEN they came to Incels.me. You don't need an Incels.me to become Alek Minassian. But some people need help to NOT be Alek Minassian.

This is essentially as far as I've gotten, talking to the common Norman. I don't know if I'm getting any further. Because most people are like "Ehhh, but, rape threads... can't abide it..." and of course I understand. But you can still hate rape, just as much as you hate suicide and self-harm and every other unspeakable thing in the unspeakable book, and say "This is because of X." You do it for everyone else, why not the incels? Why not? Can't get a straight answer out of the Normans. But... there's talk of a newfound "interest" in the incel community. There's talk of "journalists" coming by to look into what inceldom is truly all about. Sadly, we're only getting this attention because one or two troubled individuals made the ultimate mistake. But if, IF people are coming here, the right people, the major media people, my hope and prayer is that the truth reaches them, and that their minds and ears are open to it. Absolute pipe dream, but my hope is that the, the, uh, the Trevor Noahs or the John Olivers or whoever's wheelhouse this stuff is, we actually start having the dialogues we need to have about this. We're in here with all of our hate fantasies because no one else would listen. Don't say you did, journalists. Because you didn't. And the sum of all of our frustration and misery now needs to be voiced for the Normans to hear. And if that sounds like a man-baby manifesto, how come other manifestos didn't get the same ridicule?

That's what I'm about. Help, not ridicule. Outreach, not pushing people away and saying "That guy's a nut, he's not like me" in the hopes that we can keep our video games and subreddits and imageboards. Because all these other cases got it. And the Normans and the Noahs and the Olivers haven't given me Reason #1 why we shouldn't get it either. I mean, I'm not gonna kill anybody. You're probably not gonna kill anybody. But I'm still very sad about stuff.

 

[Grotesque]

Because we're ugly.

 

[builderseed]

Because we're ugly.

this, and the fact that normalshits believe the first lie told to them by the MSM and disregard other explanations and thoughts as "wrong-think"

 

[FrothySolutions]

I just hope... pipe dream, that someone's out there that's willing to listen, and that our voices are heard. Not just to be made fun of. Ordinarily I wouldn't hope this, but if "journalists" are pokin' and proddin', maybe try actually talking to us? I'll never forget the words of arch-Stacy Marilyn Monroe, during her "Bowling For Columbine" interview when asked what she would've said to Klebold and Harris if she could talk to them directly: "I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did."

How the hell did you forget, Normans??? Where did the compassion go??? Why not us??? I wanna hear it from you! Not Grotesque!

 

[Mainländer]

Because the criminals favored by that "he was just a troubled individual " bullshit are the ones who fit in the current social narrative, and incels definitely don't.

 

[IronMike]

 

[ziggyziggy]

Society recognizes that people are entitled to respect, compassion and understanding. When someone snaps due to bullying and lets out that anger as revenge, it is understood in that regard though it is not less of a cruel and reprehensible act. Respect, in particular, is a universal value and widely recognized as a due entitlement.

Society does not, however, recognize that anyone is entitled to sex. And this is why incels who kill innocent people based on this presupposition are dismissed as "entitled man-babies". In the eyes of society, it is the same as going on a killing spree because one feels he is entitled to ice-cream or cable TV and didn't get it.

 

[FrothySolutions]

Society recognizes that people are entitled to respect, compassion and understanding. When someone snaps due to bullying and lets out that anger as revenge, it is understood in that regard though it is not less of a cruel and reprehensible act. Respect, in particular, is a universal value and widely recognized as a due entitlement.

Society does not, however, recognize that anyone is entitled to sex. And this is why incels who kill innocent people based on this presupposition are dismissed as "entitled man-babies". In the eyes of society, it is the same as going on a killing spree because one feels he is entitled to ice-cream or cable TV and didn't get it.

But doesn't the incel equate his sexlessness with lack of respect? It's not just about the sex. Sex is just a token that validates his worth as a person. A sexless incel is a disrespected incel.

Normans might say "Well that's not a healthy viewpoint to hold!" Fine then. Help the incel to see past that, why don't you? If it's true?

 

[ziggyziggy]

But doesn't the incel equate his sexlessness with lack of respect? It's not just about the sex. Sex is just a token that validates his worth as a person. A sexless incel is a disrespected incel.

Normans might say "Well that's not a healthy viewpoint to hold!" Fine then. Help the incel to see past that, why don't you? If it's true?

Sex is a token that validates his worth as a person according to his perspective, not of society. That is the currency he uses for his self-worth.
Think of a piano virtuoso who doesn't care about women, only about the applause. Or a scientist who will get rejected by a woman and be midly upset, but would have a meltdown if his peers did not recognize the value of his seminal article.

As for helping people to see past things, they have to want to and they have to seek professional help. That's a tall order for most. Therapy did wonders for me.I got rid of all my anger. Or maybe that's just my age.

 

[FrothySolutions]

.

As for helping people to see past things, they have to want to and they have to seek professional help. That's a tall order for most. Therapy did wonders for me.I got rid of all my anger. Or maybe that's just my age.

Some people need help, but don't have it in them to seek it themselves. Society still understands those people. They don't say "Fuck that guy for not going to therapy." They know severe enough illness can convince you not to accept the help. Tragic, there's not much that can be done for people that broken, but can't we still keep in mind the fact that this is a very troubled individual? So troubled that he wouldn't go to therapy?

 

[ziggyziggy]

Some people need help, but don't have it in them to seek it themselves. Society still understands those people. They don't say "Fuck that guy for not going to therapy." They know severe enough illness can convince you not to accept the help. Tragic, there's not much that can be done for people that broken, but can't we still keep in mind the fact that this is a very troubled individual? So troubled that he wouldn't go to therapy?

Of course he's troubled. They're all troubled. But society does not recognize as victims those against whom no perceived attack was made.

And society does not feel that "people not wanting to fuck you" is an attack. It does, however, perceive kids getting beaten up or jammed into lockers by bullies to be an attack, and thus those are given -some- compassion.

 

[FrothySolutions]

Of course he's troubled. They're all troubled. But society does not recognize as victims those against whom no perceived attack was made.

And society does not feel that "people not wanting to fuck you" is an attack. It does, however, perceive kids getting beaten up or jammed into lockers by bullies to be an attack, and thus those are given -some- compassion.

But that's obtuse, and really runs contrary to what they claim to be about. They're saying "You're not a victim, you haven't experienced real abuse." But the incel, if he could speak for himself, would say "Well I think I am a victim. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm delusional. But you guys claim to wanna help the delusional, and the ill, and the mentally maladjusted. You claim to understand/believe that it's my illness that makes me THINK I'm a victim. And that I wouldn't in my right mind choose to be this way. I'm only this way because I'm fucked up, and usually you're understanding of fucked up people."

 

[ziggyziggy]

But that's obtuse, and really runs contrary to what they claim to be about. They're saying "You're not a victim, you haven't experienced real abuse." But the incel, if he could speak for himself, would say "Well I think I am a victim. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm delusional. But you guys claim to wanna help the delusional, and the ill, and the mentally maladjusted. You claim to understand/believe that it's my illness that makes me THINK I'm a victim. And that I wouldn't in my right mind choose to be this way. I'm only this way because I'm fucked up, and usually you're understanding of fucked up people."

It's important to differentiate between the recognition of a pathology and the empathy for its sufferer.

As a society, we seek to understand everyone, but understanding the reasons why someone does something does not automatically warrant them understanding, forgiveness or compassion. Everyone has a reason to do what they do. Hitler did, the mexican cartels who killed a man in front of his son and then tore out the kid's beating heart and showed it to him also have their reasons. As does a spoiled kid who has a tantrum because he wants a new toy. He clearly wants it desperately, is suffering from how much he wants it, but he isn't entitled to it and therefore fuck that little shit.

Society's values determine whether or not someone's reasons warrant compassion, and to what extent. And "not getting laid" doesn't warrant anyone any, regardless of how much it sucks (and it sucks ass), because it's not something anyone is entitled to.

In essence: society gets why they were mad, but fuck those fuckers.

 

[Stoiccel]

Because we're ugly.

 

[FrothySolutions]

It's important to differentiate between the recognition of a pathology and the empathy for its sufferer.

As a society, we seek to understand everyone, but understanding the reasons why someone does something does not automatically warrant them understanding, forgiveness or compassion. Everyone has a reason to do what they do. Hitler did, the mexican cartels who killed a man in front of his son and then tore out the kid's beating heart and showed it to him also have their reasons. As does a spoiled kid who has a tantrum because he wants a new toy. He clearly wants it desperately, is suffering from how much he wants it, but he isn't entitled to it and therefore fuck that little shit.

Society's values determine whether or not someone's reasons warrant compassion, and to what extent. And "not getting laid" doesn't warrant anyone any, regardless of how much it sucks (and it sucks ass), because it's not something anyone is entitled to.

In essence: society gets why they were mad, but fuck those fuckers.

Nnnnnn... that's... if that's really how cruel society is, they need to be upfront about it. The way I interpreted it was, recognition of a pathology and empathy for the sufferer went hand in hand. If someone is sick, it's not their fault. You don't say "fuck you" to a sick person. At least that's what I thought was the case. That's what the Normans told me when it was other people who were sick.

 

[Deleted member 6501]

Because we're ugly.

literally this

 

[Detro]

Sex is a token that validates his worth as a person according to his perspective, not of society. .

Bullshit, otherwise "virgin","you need to get laid" and other assorted lack-of-sex based insults wouldn't be so common

 

[FrothySolutions]

If incel journalism has come to poking around in incel threads, it's my fantasy that the journalists somehow come upon this one, or one like it, or many like it, amongst the thousands of other threads that make up this forum. I want it out there so the right people can see this discourse and say "Well if they wanna talk, let's talk."

 

[Deleted member 677]

 

[Its_OVER]

Because we're ugly.

 

[FrothySolutions]

Also, if anyone's pokin' around, I want to stress that this isn't about the sex itself. It's about the self-worth. The incel laments the flaws that keep him from getting laid not just because he's not getting laid, but because his flaws make him less valuable. Even if he was to somehow slip and fall into a barrel of pussy, if the sex robots do make it in his lifetime, it wouldn't matter. It's about him being the kind of person that people want to be with. As long as he has his flaws, and sees them as flaws, he can't get better.