SuicideFuel The truth about the "masculinity crisis"

[Kamanbert]

I think we can all agree that what is meant by "masculinity crisis" is both men falling behind concretely and feeling undervalued abstractly.

The concrete and the abstract intertwine as two factors without any real means for observers to determine which one takes precedence over the other ; do men feel like shit because they underperform or do they underperform because they feel like shit ? In every debate over the subject you can feel this stupid confusion hanging in the air without anyone ever addressing it and it pisses me off.

Even the composition of this forum reflects this concrete-abstract dynamic : some members are jobless, depressed and aimless while some members are succesful, somewhat content and focused enough for contemporary standards but are still incels.

So the problem is that soyciety makes the diagnosis of a masculine crisis but never acknowledges the possible validity of men's feelings under egalitarianism, despite the semantical obviousness :

"Masculinity" does not live as in a vacuum but rather as an alterity to femininity, concretely and abstractly which is simply a law of nature. Sadly, this implies things no feminist mumbo jumbo can override, mainly things such as sexual dimorphism influencing women's perception of men.

Sexual dimorphism is physical (concrete) but in our intelligent human species it's very safe to say that it's equally extremely symbolic (abstract), and this symbolism used to even out the field for men but not anymore due to egalitarianism ; if women can do anything we do if not better what is the default symbolic value of a man in the contemporary world outside insane beauty standards or - once the looks threshold is met - performative masculinity which comes in all shapes and forms : the thug, the cool artist, the driven carreer man, the subservient husband... not simply a man with his qualities and shortcomings ?

That's why bluepillers insist so much on "personality", "purpose" and chastise us ; if we can't fulfill the end of the bargain of sexual dimorphism through concrete means (looks), we must go for the abstract sexual dimorphism by imposing a bullshit personal and performative narrative on the ruin of our classical, patriarcal masculinity where men had a default value. This is a continuity of the neoliberal/postmodern logic but it hurts men 1000 times more than women : individuals have no default value unless they make big bank or reinvent themselves in the eyes of the Spectacle.

But again, if there is a spectacular "feminine mystique" by default which, by the way, is constantly celebrated by media and women in a defiant way (muh God is a woman), clearly vocalizing it's all-absorbing nature through the transcending of gender roles, what place does this leave for the masculine mystique ? There is simply none and the only solution is what i mentionned before : you must reinvent yourself in complete subservience to women's desires.

This is more deep than "women make money now so they don't need us". It's also "women see themselves as our equals therefore they see us as crap due to the symbolic sexual dimorphism".

Maybe this is just my intuition but i really feel like this is what's behind the "masculinity crisis" at it's core. Men can feel like shit even if they perform, they can perform even if they feel like shit ; it doesn't fucking matter, at the end of the day they're doomed to feel like shit. If i was a succesful man with a good wife, a good job, a good social life, i'd still fear for my son if i had one, cause men nowadays are nothing by default.

When normies say that not all women are radical feminists and that not all of society is out to get you, they're right, but they don't get that the diffuse feminism or the feminization of power are catalysers for what men feel : the broken sexual dimorphism is shitty enough as it is but when you add in constant dehumanizing feminist discourse at least partially (and i'm being generous here ) validated by the average woman on the street, unfair treatments of men in the legal or school system, it's crazy that we're still the ones that are supposed to go the extra mile despite all the existential anguish, ressentment and anxiety all this shitshow might give us.

 

[LWii]

There is no "masculinity crisis"
I have an uglyness mental illness crisis, thats it
Being an incel has nothing to do with not being masculine

 

[Kamanbert]

There is no "masculinity crisis"
I have an uglyness mental illness crisis, thats it
Being an incel has nothing to do with not being masculine

I did mention the looks threshold. I admit that this is more about society at large rather than the plight of ubercels.

 

[LWii]

I did mention the looks threshold. I admit that this is more about society at large rather than the plight of ubercels.

Sorry i didnt really read it all. Im braindead and have the attention span of a fish.
I'll try to actually read it

 

[LWii]

while some members are succesful

I dont believe that for a second.
A successfull person wouldnt waste his time in this shithole imo

 

[Kamanbert]

Sorry i didnt really read it all. Im braindead and have the attention span of a fish.
I'll try to actually read it

No problem i'm braindead too i dont even know if what i say makes sense or if i'm just a madman rambling at this point

 

[SandNiggerKANG]

The definition of masculinity can be changed by society’s collective ego to suit the current agenda. The definition of masculinity is arbitrary to society. There is no crisis. This is just the fruits of the collective ego.
@light

Real masculinity is just high male sexual dimorphism.

 

[Kamanbert]

I dont believe that for a second.
A successfull person wouldnt waste his time in this shithole imo

I've seen incels here in tech or medicine

 

[LWii]

Ive finally read it all yeah i mostly agree

 

[Kamanbert]

The definition of masculinity can be changed by society’s collective ego to suit the current agenda. The definition of masculinity is arbitrary. There is no crisis. This is just the fruits of the collective ego
@light

Well if masculinity is abused like this then it makes sense that men might feel in an identity crisis. I kinda touched on it, how men cannot simply define themselves through essentialism like women still do and so are forced to define themselves through never ending individualized performance, which kinda acts like a never ending stretching of masculinity itself : competitive top earner ? Subservient modern dad ? Thug ? It's very vile.

 

[SandNiggerKANG]

Well if masculinity is abused like this then it makes sense that men might feel in an identity crisis.

Yes exactly my point. Men know the contradictions

 

[Kamanbert]

Yes exactly my point. Men know the contradictions

Yes then we agree ? Cause i'm not saying that there is a "masculinity crisis" in the sense that men suck or are unmanly or some bullshit, more in the sense that they feel dejected and confused.

 

[SandNiggerKANG]

Yes then we agree ? Cause i'm not saying that there is a "masculinity crisis" in the sense that men suck or are unmanly or some bullshit, more in the sense that they feel dejected and confused.

Yeah we agree fren. It’s only a masculinity crisis according to THEIR definition they constructed around masculinity. That definition they can change whenever it benefits their agenda. We are dejected and confused because nobody ever told us life would be this full of bullshit for most men. No real role models that speaks to our truth. Instead when we were young, we were pumped full of hopium, delusions and unrealistic useless bullshit which only left us more bewildered.

 

[VλREN]

>that one big brain user that posts twice a month

 

[Yabadadabadoo]

We underperform because the system is against us

 

[Kamanbert]

Yeah we agree fren. It’s only a masculinity crisis according to THEIR definition they constructed around masculinity. That definition they can change whenever it benefits their agenda. We are dejected and confused because nobody ever told us life would be this full of bullshit for most men. No real role models that speaks to our truth. Instead when we were young, we were pumped full of hopium, delusions and unrealistic useless bullshit which only left us more bewildered.

Yeah i'm tired of this crap. I couldn't even envision myself with a foid at this point

 

[VλREN]

It’s a crisis of being worthless, unloved and completely invisible to the world because you weren’t born a 6 foot plus prettyboy male supermodel

 

[Kamanbert]

We underperform because the system is against us

Yeah i leaved it voluntarily and just mentionned it briefly at the end cause it's kinda incalculable, which kinda pisses me off. Lately i stumbled upon an article talking about the complete feminization of a well paying job in my country (notaries). It said that the dynamic will get even more skewed in favor of women ; the interviewed female uni teacher said that gen z men completely dissapeared from the final courses in the past few years and how did she justify it ? "Women's work is simply better". Whew lad... at some point high paying jobs will be completely women dominated, maybe up to 80% or more, who knows. And they having nothing to tell us except "women are just better" while at the same time they cry for quotas in male dominated sectors.

No matter what's the truth behind it all ; how men are supposed to feel about it, about living in a future matriarchy when things look already grim ? Maybe Tesla was totally right about the future of men.

 

[SlayerSlayer]

there is only a "maculinity crisis" for foids that want to exploit men they dont fuck

 

[Yabadadabadoo]

Yeah i leaved it voluntarily and just mentionned it briefly at the end cause it's kinda incalculable, which kinda pisses me off. Lately i stumbled upon an article talking about the complete feminization of a well paying job in my country (notaries). It said that the dynamic will get even more skewed in favor of women ; the interviewed female uni teacher said that gen z men completely dissapeared from the final courses in the past few years and how did she justify it ? "Women's work is simply better". Whew lad... at some point high paying jobs will be completely women dominated, maybe up to 80% or more, who knows. And they having nothing to tell us except "women are just better" while at the same time they cry for quotas in male dominated sectors.

No matter what's the truth behind it all ; how men are supposed to feel about it, about living in a future matriarchy when things look already grim ? Maybe Tesla was totally right about the future of men.

In Spain soon 40% of the members of Boards of Directors have to be women. And you know that most of them are currently old men so there is 0 chance for young men to get in

 

[Kamanbert]

In Spain soon 40% of the members of Boards of Directors have to be women. And you know that most of them are currently old men so there is 0 chance for young men to get in

Yeah it's bound to get worse for men, if it's already shitty and if women are so antagonistic and hateful i fear thinking about the future tbh...

 

[Kamanbert]

there is only a "maculinity crisis" for foids that want to exploit men they dont fuck

From women's perspective yeah, but i meant it in the sense of how the average man feels and tried to purify it from all the disgusting projections the main narrative makes. At it's core it has nothing to do with Andrew Tate or some dumb shit they keep on talking about. Although yeah i do think that on a deeper level the lack of gender roles and the inevitable desacralization of masculinity that follows impacts how women see men.

 

[Grodd]

It’s a crisis of being worthless, unloved and completely invisible to the world because you weren’t born a 6 foot plus prettyboy male supermodel

 

[Kamanbert]

Kek some based boomer i found on quora :

I would like to tackle this question as a male elder in this society. Masculinity vis feminist mythology has become analogous to profanity. The filthy heathen one eyed snake with its selfish needy agenda has been unleashed on the innocent hopelessly codependent inch unconditionally loving long suffering feminine. These poor poor little girls finally are taking their power back through the me too movement and FEMINISM

I call HORSESHIT to the power of 1000. Women have devolved into a bunch of hateful socially corrosive oppositional defiant little children. They lack trust, empathy, compassion, respect and humility. I could list more adjectives but why waste your time and mine.

People the people who need to change in America are women not sexually preoccupied and predatory males. Hell if I had a huge trust fund I would gift every female I know with 2 years worth of free therapy with a male therapist or a female who has woken up.

Let's get real and start healing this planet.

He's spot on, women simply dont fucking care about how men feel at all in this new paradigm. No grace, no humility when it comes to the alterity, just all-devouring empowered solipsism.

This has nothing to do with women "discovering their power" and having a hard time parting with it.

During the War in the Vendee (during the french revolution) women on the royalist side, were they commoners or aristocrats, took part - although marginally - in combat, sometimes even direct combat when not in supportive roles, which is undoubtedly the most "manly" thing symbolically.

And yet in the litterature that subsists from this historical episode, which was overwhelmingly written by women witnesses (cause they survived/were not put to death etc), contemporary researchers found out that they somehow happen to never self aggrandize and that they try to show the most deference possible to their men. For those researchers this was the weight of the catholic social doctrine/patriarchy and i do believe that the social structure has gigantic consequences on psychosocial changes.

Women have always been tricky, i believe they could be both angel and devil, but now they're just something monstruous !

 

[LOLI BREEDING]

performative masculinity which comes in all shapes and forms : the thug, the cool artist, the driven carreer man, the subservient husband...

let normalfags fall into the trap of femshit appeasement. I will continue despising them, no crisis for me

Real masculinity is just high male sexual dimorphism.

real masculinity is femshit enslavement

 

[Kamanbert]

let normalfags fall into the trap of femshit appeasement. I will continue despising them, no crisis for me

Based "appeasement" is a good word for men's behavior now. The amount of pram-pushers i see outside is just obscene.

real masculinity is femshit enslavement

I wouldnt mind chivalry at all if men were still respected in the truest of sense tbh but it's just daydreaming cause there's no going back for sure.

 

[ihatefemcels]

Real masculinity is just high male sexual dimorphism

 

[Vector2800]

I do agree for men that there is a pressure to prove your masculinity. For example, Asian men are seen as weak and feminine so a lot of Asian men have been trying to counteract act this by acting masculine and confrontational. I’m Indian and I was tired of being pushed around and emasculated when I was younger so I would carry around a knife with me. The idea of another Chad bullying me and “dominating” me made me so pissed off that i was ready to stab anyone that tried to mess with me. Toxic masculinity though is just feminist bullshit made to make men weak.

 

[lifesucksandyoudie]

Foids don't get to define what masculinity is. Trying to fit feminist gynocentric ideas of what 'masculinity' should is a rigged game. Soyciety is feminized on a institutional level so its standards and definition of what's considered masculine will never be pro male, let alone valid for men. The fact that womeme feel entitled to decide what should be thought of as masculine behavior speaks to how inherently narcissistic and egotistical all females are. They're just all naturally horrible people on multiple levels.

 

[Todd Thundercock]

It’s a crisis of being worthless, unloved and completely invisible to the world because you weren’t born a 6 foot plus prettyboy male supermodel

This.

Even the composition of this forum reflects this concrete-abstract dynamic : some members are jobless, depressed and aimless while some members are succesful, somewhat content and focused enough for contemporary standards but are still incels.

I've been on both sides of this coin and nothing ever changes. Unless a man can do something that's 1/100 unique and stands out for celebrity status, he cannot create his own value in current society.

 

[nzth]

i don't even know what being masculine really is nowdays. sure being strong and resilient is masculine, but what else

 

[Arkansasmentalcel]

Masculinity is only bad if unattractive men have it

 

[anotherwastedlife]

Bookmarking this thread

 

[CHOoseWisely123]

Masculinity is only bad if unattractive men have it

Agreed, it’s so fucking apparent. Women like predictability, and if a Man isn’t acting the way he looks then that sends an immediate tick or red flag into her mind so she scowls at you with the rest of the hive mind to shut you down.

It really makes sense why the greatest philosophers of our times were isolationists to a degree.

You would not be allowed to speak out in public about these matters without being berated.

 

[InMemoriam]

there is only a "maculinity crisis" for foids that want to exploit men they dont fuck

Foids don't get to define what masculinity is. Trying to fit feminist gynocentric ideas of what 'masculinity' should is a rigged game. Soyciety is feminized on a institutional level so its standards and definition of what's considered masculine will never be pro male, let alone valid for men. The fact that womeme feel entitled to decide what should be thought of as masculine behavior speaks to how inherently narcissistic and egotistical all females are. They're just all naturally horrible people on multiple levels.

 

[SmhChan]

Kek some based boomer i found on quora :



He's spot on, women simply dont fucking care about how men feel at all in this new paradigm. No grace, no humility when it comes to the alterity, just all-devouring empowered solipsism.

This has nothing to do with women "discovering their power" and having a hard time parting with it.

During the War in the Vendee (during the french revolution) women on the royalist side, were they commoners or aristocrats, took part - although marginally - in combat, sometimes even direct combat when not in supportive roles, which is undoubtedly the most "manly" thing symbolically.

And yet in the litterature that subsists from this historical episode, which was overwhelmingly written by women witnesses (cause they survived/were not put to death etc), contemporary researchers found out that they somehow happen to never self aggrandize and that they try to show the most deference possible to their men. For those researchers this was the weight of the catholic social doctrine/patriarchy and i do believe that the social structure has gigantic consequences on psychosocial changes.

Women have always been tricky, i believe they could be both angel and devil, but now they're just something monstruous !

Boomer said a based thing but cucked out with the 'therapy' shit. Foids need to be fucking segregated into concentration camps. Also, the trust thing. Yes, it is true, humans have high-trust societies, much higher than animals. These evo-psycho cucks and their blackpilled followers spouting 'muh sexual selection' always overlook this part. Foids take advantage of this exact trust of human males. I guess, that's what men evolved to become (high trust) which foids failed at spectacularly as their true nature under the mask has come to the fore.

As for the broader point, I would always go back to it starting from college. Not only foids become a huge distraction to the man reaching his sexual peak, foids get a better social life, a favoring education system etc. A mixture of love and insane jealousy which fucks up the male psyche. Add in to that the societal lynching of feminism. That's why even in conservative Muslim countries, foids do better in colleges. The rabbit hole of gender dynamics is incredibly deep, but people don't get into that because it'd expose how much of a net negative foids are to men's existence.

 

[erenyeager]

It’s a crisis of being worthless, unloved and completely invisible to the world because you weren’t born a 6 foot plus prettyboy male supermodel

Truth nuke

 

[Maikowski]

didnt read but the masculinity crisis is obvious boomer bullshit from boomers who don't understand video games. Their instinct is to blame men for not being able to meet wives and they pretend women aren't dysfunctional. It's low IQ bullshit blaming porn or video games or "lack of masculinity" or whatever cope when it's just modern women now having fake email jobs that allow them to stay single or hold out for the Chads they'll never get.

 

[Yournotcold0]

There is no "masculinity crisis"
I have an uglyness mental illness crisis, thats it
Being an incel has nothing to do with not being masculine

 

[CHOoseWisely123]

didnt read but the masculinity crisis is obvious boomer bullshit from boomers who don't understand video games. Their instinct is to blame men for not being able to meet wives and they pretend women aren't dysfunctional. It's low IQ bullshit blaming porn or video games or "lack of masculinity" or whatever cope when it's just modern women now having fake email jobs that allow them to stay single or hold out for the Chads they'll never get.

Boomers see the symptoms of inceldom (vidya, etc) as a direct rebellious act against Muh tradition.

They want you to slave away for a slut and pay for their social security.

 

[SmhChan]

didnt read but the masculinity crisis is obvious boomer bullshit from boomers who don't understand video games. Their instinct is to blame men for not being able to meet wives and they pretend women aren't dysfunctional. It's low IQ bullshit blaming porn or video games or "lack of masculinity" or whatever cope when it's just modern women now having fake email jobs that allow them to stay single or hold out for the Chads they'll never get.

Never forget boomers were the biggest spenders when it comes to escorts and strippers and the biggest divorce raped group. A boomer's critique of modern men is more worthless than Zimbabwe currency.

 

[m3nt4Lbl0ck3d]

Masculinity" does not live as in a vacuum but rather as an alterity to femininity, concretely and abstractly which is simply a law of nature.

Here lays the problem. It never gets addressed because masculinity is never okay because they continually push the envelope of almost every from of masculinity being toxic, until they actually WANT it. Masculinity isn't something you can just have on demand - you either want it or you don't. This is the problem in a nutshell imo.

 

[Rapistcel]

I think we can all agree that what is meant by "masculinity crisis" is both men falling behind concretely and feeling undervalued abstractly.

The concrete and the abstract intertwine as two factors without any real means for observers to determine which one takes precedence over the other ; do men feel like shit because they underperform or do they underperform because they feel like shit ? In every debate over the subject you can feel this stupid confusion hanging in the air without anyone ever addressing it and it pisses me off.

Even the composition of this forum reflects this concrete-abstract dynamic : some members are jobless, depressed and aimless while some members are succesful, somewhat content and focused enough for contemporary standards but are still incels.

So the problem is that soyciety makes the diagnosis of a masculine crisis but never acknowledges the possible validity of men's feelings under egalitarianism, despite the semantical obviousness :

"Masculinity" does not live as in a vacuum but rather as an alterity to femininity, concretely and abstractly which is simply a law of nature. Sadly, this implies things no feminist mumbo jumbo can override, mainly things such as sexual dimorphism influencing women's perception of men.

Sexual dimorphism is physical (concrete) but in our intelligent human species it's very safe to say that it's equally extremely symbolic (abstract), and this symbolism used to even out the field for men but not anymore due to egalitarianism ; if women can do anything we do if not better what is the default symbolic value of a man in the contemporary world outside insane beauty standards or - once the looks threshold is met - performative masculinity which comes in all shapes and forms : the thug, the cool artist, the driven carreer man, the subservient husband... not simply a man with his qualities and shortcomings ?

That's why bluepillers insist so much on "personality", "purpose" and chastise us ; if we can't fulfill the end of the bargain of sexual dimorphism through concrete means (looks), we must go for the abstract sexual dimorphism by imposing a bullshit personal and performative narrative on the ruin of our classical, patriarcal masculinity where men had a default value. This is a continuity of the neoliberal/postmodern logic but it hurts men 1000 times more than women : individuals have no default value unless they make big bank or reinvent themselves in the eyes of the Spectacle.

But again, if there is a spectacular "feminine mystique" by default which, by the way, is constantly celebrated by media and women in a defiant way (muh God is a woman), clearly vocalizing it's all-absorbing nature through the transcending of gender roles, what place does this leave for the masculine mystique ? There is simply none and the only solution is what i mentionned before : you must reinvent yourself in complete subservience to women's desires.

This is more deep than "women make money now so they don't need us". It's also "women see themselves as our equals therefore they see us as crap due to the symbolic sexual dimorphism".

Maybe this is just my intuition but i really feel like this is what's behind the "masculinity crisis" at it's core. Men can feel like shit even if they perform, they can perform even if they feel like shit ; it doesn't fucking matter, at the end of the day they're doomed to feel like shit. If i was a succesful man with a good wife, a good job, a good social life, i'd still fear for my son if i had one, cause men nowadays are nothing by default.

When normies say that not all women are radical feminists and that not all of society is out to get you, they're right, but they don't get that the diffuse feminism or the feminization of power are catalysers for what men feel : the broken sexual dimorphism is shitty enough as it is but when you add in constant dehumanizing feminist discourse at least partially (and i'm being generous here ) validated by the average woman on the street, unfair treatments of men in the legal or school system, it's crazy that we're still the ones that are supposed to go the extra mile despite all the existential anguish, ressentment and anxiety all this shitshow might give us.

Society is feminized

 

[TheHungariancel]

Maybe Tesla was totally right about the future of men.

What did he say?

 

[Lonelyus]

There is no "masculinity crisis"
I have an uglyness mental illness crisis, thats it
Being an incel has nothing to do with not being masculine

Im ugly so therefore i will be seen as weak and not masculine, The end!

 

[Wok22]

Sorry i didnt really read it all. Im braindead and have the attention span of a fish.
I'll try to actually read it

unironically, every living being (multi-cellular ones) have the same attention span as humans, this means roaches, rats, bears, pigs, and yes, even goldfish, can forget as quickly as us. We only see ourselves as better because we can write down the information or by continuous repetition. We do these flashcards, saying words aloud until we remember them (like in a speech), and other such things. Animals do not have this privilege, to write things down, or language, so we consider them inferior even though we can forget things at the same rate as they do.

ANIMAL PILL GOES HARD!