subjectivity copers btfo

[light]

Despite research on social consequences, exactly what it is that makes a face beautiful remains poorly defined. One of the major deterrents in determining the features of an attractive face lies in the widespread belief that standards of attractiveness are learned gradually through exposure to culturally presented ideals (e.g. through the media in Western society) and this has also led to a general belief that cultures vary dramatically in what they perceive to be attractive [18]. If this were true, it would mean that attractive- ness is arbitrary and what is beautiful now could, in a different time or place, be considered unattractive.

its so funny how one groups arguments hinge on anecdotes and this arrogant idea that beauty cannot be the ultimate determinant of a persons quality of life merely because the idea that it could be so is ostensibly unfair. lmao. so many people cant even begin to come to terms with the fact that we are living in a deeply brutal society that couldnt care less about fairness

this politically correct view of beauty is to some extent false. In fact, agreement between individ- uals is one of the best-documented and most robust findings in facial attractiveness research since the 1970s. Across many studies it has been found that there is a high degree of agreement from individuals within a particular culture and also high agreement between individuals from different cultures (see [2] for a meta-analytical review). If different people can agree on which faces are attractive and which are not attractive when judging faces of varying ethnic back- ground (e.g. [23]), then this suggests that people everywhere are all using the same, or at least similar, criteria in their judgements.

Cross-cultural agreement on attractiveness is evidence against the notion that attractiveness ideals are slowly absorbed by those growing up within a particular culture and this suggests that there is something universal about attractive faces (and unattractive faces) that is recognized both across individuals and culture

Little, A. C.; Jones, B. C.; DeBruine, L. M. - Anna’s Archive

The Royal Society (ISSN 0080-4622) Philosophical Transactions Biological Sciences, #1571, 366, pages 1638-1659, 2011 jun 12 scihub/10.1098/rstb.2010.0404.pdf

annas-archive.org

 

[Lazyandtalentless]

I generally wonder what goes through soys’ brains when they see a study about lookism

 

[light]

I generally wonder what goes through soy’s brains when they see a study about lookism

same

 

[Myst]

beauty is objective, even if other races don't find you attractive which is normal. They would still treat you better than an ugly guy from the same race

 

[light]

@WorthlessSlavicShit

 

[xmiserablesoul]

no shit, there will never be a world where recessed chins and bug eyes are considered attractive

 

[WorthlessSlavicShit]

@WorthlessSlavicShit

The absolute state of "looks are subjective" copers in this day and age is something to behold.

The "Nuance Pill" dude tried doing this with a post on his substack where 90% of it is just filler as he pored over various studies on it and looking at any disagreement between the judges there:

The second had 12 female and 19 male participants rate pictures of 28 female and 32 male models. Roughly a third of both the participants and models were either Asian, black, or white, with the expectation being that a more heterogeneous sample would amplify the bi values as there was more variation for idiosyncratic taste to act on, and also ingroup bias may affect ratings.

The average interjudge correlations were a bit lower at .31 for the first and .34 for the second session. Test-retest reliability was .72. The beholder index values were a bit higher at .56 for bi1 and .65 for bi2. Race was also unrelated to overall face scores. Thus the expectation was met.

(All of it is like this)

Is Beauty in the Eye of the Beholder?

Just an empty platitude, or is there something to it?

nuancepill.substack.com

And at first I didn't really know how to describe what was wrong with it, before I saw how the researchers in this study I posted casually discussed how they arrived at the composite measures of attractiveness:

"more attractive professors obtain better first school placements post-PhD and are granted tenure in a shorter period of time"

"Just study hard bro:soy:, Chad can bounce his little balls around all he wants in PE, but you can outdo him where it really matters:soy:." If only it were that simple:incel:. Beauty and Accounting Academic Career We examine the impact of beauty on the academic career success of tenure-track...

incels.is

And then it hit me that what Nuance Pill did was basically to reinvent the entire process of statistical analysis and put it on its head by focusing on statistical noise and outliers and putting them on a pedestal, all to own the inkwells.

The idea that looks are socially determined has been basically discredited by the cross-cultural agreement on looks ratings for decades by now. Literally the least-supported theory in this metastudy from 2000.

Scientific Blackpill

The Scientific Blackpill is about understanding the nature of human social and sexual behavior with a particular focus on evolutionary psychological perspectives...

incels.wiki

That's why its proponents are now trying to claim that all of it was somehow just hegemonically imposed by the West on the rest, with the cultures in the latter apparently somehow unable to defend their standards of attractiveness from a single episode of some Western TV show.

And yet, even when people went to literal jungle-dweller isolated tribe in Papua New Guinea and had them rate some Polish students who were clearly rated from most to least attractive in their home country, basically the only thing that changed was that the guy rated second-hottest by Polish women was rated first by the Yali women, and the third one likewise got an SMV boost, with the ugliest Polish man still rated the ugliest of the group by the Yali women as well.

Is Beauty in the Eye of the Beholder but Ugliness Culturally Universal? Facial Preferences of Polish and Yali (Papua) People

Which is another funny thing about "muh subjective looks", whenever there is some subjectivity, it just so happens to never be a question of whether a person seen as ugly by some is seen as attractive by others or vice versa, but rather whether that person is one point higher or lower on the SMV scale than somebody thinks.

Even in the Nuance Pill post I linked above, one of his "arguments" is that there was a Twitter argument about whether Margot Robbie is mid or attractive. Curiously, "ugly" wasn't one of the options. Though to his credit, he does somewhat acknowledge this:

Admittedly it’s hard to tell exactly how sincere these tweets were, but everyone can recall an instance of a genuine dispute over which of two individuals was hotter. On the other hand, it’s also probably the case that these disputes weren’t over Steve Buscemi and Henry Cavill. Additionally, people’s outrage at this suggestion could be seen as betraying an implicit belief in an objective standard which people are violating.

You also see it in this study:

Perceived attractiveness of Czech faces across 10 cultures: Associations with sexual shape dimorphism, averageness, fluctuating asymmetry, and eye color

Research on the perception of faces typically assumes that there are some universal values of attractiveness which are shared across individuals and cultures. The perception of attractiveness may, however, vary across cultures due to local differences in both facial morphology and standards of...

journals.plos.org

Where if you download the dataset and look how the five best-looking and five worst-looking guys did across those countries, it looks like this:

Eventually, when rated by people in very different cultures by people most of whom have never even seen white people IRL, the Chads were rated as HTNs and the incels as LTNs, but that was it. Both groups were normiefied, but they never changed positions.

I generally wonder what goes through soys’ brains when they see a study about lookism

I think the backlash towards lookism applying to men too is driven mostly by ugly men terrified of that notion and feminist women offended by it because their worldview is built on the idea of the world being uniquely cruel to women. I'd say it's about a 80/20 split in favor of the former. You know the saying "I can run faster scared than you can mad,"? It probably applies here, a feminist foid might get deeply offended by a lookism study, but a bluepilled ugly guy being confronted with the truth that the women he hopes to (and thinks he can if he works on himself) fuck one day see him exactly the same as he and men in general see unattractive women will absolutely not rest until he'll see that study completely defeated, because it being true would destroy him.

no shit, there will never be a world where recessed chins and bug eyes are considered attractive

 

[light]

The absolute state of "looks are subjective" copers in this day and age is something to behold.

The "Nuance Pill" dude tried doing this with a post on his substack where 90% of it is just filler as he pored over various studies on it and looking at any disagreement between the judges there:


(All of it is like this)

Is Beauty in the Eye of the Beholder?

Just an empty platitude, or is there something to it?

nuancepill.substack.com

And at first I didn't really know how to describe what was wrong with it, before I saw how the researchers in this study I posted casually discussed how they arrived at the composite measures of attractiveness:

"more attractive professors obtain better first school placements post-PhD and are granted tenure in a shorter period of time"

"Just study hard bro:soy:, Chad can bounce his little balls around all he wants in PE, but you can outdo him where it really matters:soy:." If only it were that simple:incel:. Beauty and Accounting Academic Career We examine the impact of beauty on the academic career success of tenure-track...

incels.is

And then it hit me that what Nuance Pill did was basically to reinvent the entire process of statistical analysis and put it on its head by focusing on statistical noise and outliers and putting them on a pedestal, all to own the inkwells.

The idea that looks are socially determined has been basically discredited by the cross-cultural agreement on looks ratings for decades by now. Literally the least-supported theory in this metastudy from 2000.

View attachment 1317343

Scientific Blackpill

The Scientific Blackpill is about understanding the nature of human social and sexual behavior with a particular focus on evolutionary psychological perspectives...

incels.wiki

That's why its proponents are now trying to claim that all of it was somehow just hegemonically imposed by the West on the rest, with the cultures in the latter apparently somehow unable to defend their standards of attractiveness from a single episode of some Western TV show.

And yet, even when people went to literal jungle-dweller isolated tribe in Papua New Guinea and had them rate some Polish students who were clearly rated from most to least attractive in their home country, basically the only thing that changed was that the guy rated second-hottest by Polish women was rated first by the Yali women, and the third one likewise got an SMV boost, with the ugliest Polish man still rated the ugliest of the group by the Yali women as well.

Is Beauty in the Eye of the Beholder but Ugliness Culturally Universal? Facial Preferences of Polish and Yali (Papua) People

Which is another funny thing about "muh subjective looks", whenever there is some subjectivity, it just so happens to never be a question of whether a person seen as ugly by some is seen as attractive by others or vice versa, but rather whether that person is one point higher or lower on the SMV scale than somebody thinks.

Even in the Nuance Pill post I linked above, one of his "arguments" is that there was a Twitter argument about whether Margot Robbie is mid or attractive. Curiously, "ugly" wasn't one of the options. Though to his credit, he does somewhat acknowledge this:



You also see it in this study:

Perceived attractiveness of Czech faces across 10 cultures: Associations with sexual shape dimorphism, averageness, fluctuating asymmetry, and eye color

Research on the perception of faces typically assumes that there are some universal values of attractiveness which are shared across individuals and cultures. The perception of attractiveness may, however, vary across cultures due to local differences in both facial morphology and standards of...

journals.plos.org

Where if you download the dataset and look how the five best-looking and five worst-looking guys did across those countries, it looks like this:

View attachment 1317403

Eventually, when rated by people in very different cultures by people most of whom have never even seen white people IRL, the Chads were rated as HTNs and the incels as LTNs, but that was it. Both groups were normiefied, but they never changed positions.


I think the backlash towards lookism applying to men too is driven mostly by ugly men terrified of that notion and feminist women offended by it because their worldview is built on the idea of the world being uniquely cruel to women. I'd say it's about a 80/20 split in favor of the former. You know the saying "I can run faster scared than you can mad,"? It probably applies here, a feminist foid might get deeply offended by a lookism study, but a bluepilled ugly guy being confronted with the truth that the women he hopes to (and thinks he can if he works on himself) fuck one day see him exactly the same as he and men in general see unattractive women will absolutely not rest until he'll see that study completely defeated, because it being true would destroy him.

will read when im less braindead

 

[anandkonda29]

will read when im less braindead

Yeah @WorthlessSlavicShit is too High IQ for this forum tbh

 

[light]

Yeah @WorthlessSlavicShit is too High IQ for this forum tbh

tbh

 

[WorthlessSlavicShit]

will read when im less braindead

Yeah @WorthlessSlavicShit is too High IQ for this forum tbh

tbh

Thanks.

 

[anandkonda29]

Thanks.

Just geomaxx to Netherlands like Ron and ascend already. Worked for one Slav

 

[xmiserablesoul]

Just geomaxx to Netherlands like Ron and ascend already. Worked for one Slav

netherlands where the average male height is 6'0

 

[anandkonda29]

netherlands where the average male height is 6'0

Most Slavs are also tall

 

[WorthlessSlavicShit]

netherlands where the average male height is 6'0

Most Slavs are also tall

*Painfully smiles in 5'8 while Ron is 6ft.*

I already have a habit of looking for any guy I might heightmog whenever I am in a crowded elevator, can imagine that would be even more brutal in the Netherlands.

 

[anandkonda29]

*Painfully smiles in 5'8 while Ron is 6ft.*

I already have a habit of looking for any guy I might heightmog whenever I am in a crowded elevator, can imagine that would be even more brutal in the Netherlands.