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Prehistory discussion.

M

Monk of Failure

Runaway Azkabanian.
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Jul 14, 2019
Posts
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These days, I've been reading about the agriculturalists of west Asia that greatly change the course of human history as well as genetics. This is a summary I made, though it's not fully accurate.

So, it goes back to holecene days, which was 11,000-12,000 years back, when Younger Dryas(brief glacial condition) had just ended and the temperature began soaring, there used to be population of some mesolithic hunter gatherer groups living in west Asia( which comprises of Lebanon, Israel, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Jordan). These hunter gatherer groups comprised of Anatolian hunter gatherers, Natufian hunter gatherers and Iranian hunter gatherers, who gave up hunting and started doing farming during this period of holecene. The Anatolian hunter gatherers and Natufian hunter gatherers were almost completely related, as they both derive their ancestry from an unknown WEHG group(West Eurasian Hunter Gatherers) and baEu(basal Eurasian), though the differences were Anatolians had more WEHG(50-70%) ancestry compared to Natufians who had 50% WEHG ancestry, while Natufians had more BaEu ancestry(50%) and a little bit of Iranian ancestry. The Iranian hunter gatherers, however, were completely different from the these two populations, as Iranians derive 60-66% of ancestry from baEu and the rest(30-40%) from ANE(Ancestral Northern Eurasian) which was absent in both Natufians and Anatolians.

As the neolithic period begins, these hunter groups turned into farmers, admixing with each other and then expanding along with spreading farming to other places.

Natufians went to Levant and North Africa where they created the ancient Egyptian civilisation. The famous Egyptian mummies derived bulk of their ancestry from these Natufians. Natufians seem to be already present in North Africa even before the neolithic period began, as natufians make up bulk of the ancestry of Iberomaurusian culture's people from late upper Paleolithic in North Africa .

Anatolians agriculturalists, on the other hand, went to Southern Europe where they absorbed the already existing population of WHGs(Western Hunter Gatherers) and brought agriculture to Europe. They gave rise to first European civilisation, that is Aegan civilisation in Greece and other civilisations as well like Minoan civilisation. Modern day Southern Europeans derive their ancestry from these neolithic Anatolian farmers and this ancestry peaks in Sardinians in Europe.

Finally, the third group, the Iranian hunter gatherers went to far west part of South Asia where they admixed with South Asian hunter gatherers forming a population group called Indus Periphery that created the Indus valley civilisation and contributed largely to the ancestry of modern South Asians(curries). These Iranian hunterer gatherers also admixed with Levant farmers(Natufians+neolithic Anatolian) in Iran, forming a population group called Chalcolithic Iranians who are the major source of the ancestry of modern Iranians and Kurds. These Iranian farmers were related to the Caucasus Hunter Gatherers, a group that contributed to 40-45% of Indo-European ancestry.

So, what are your thoughts on the impact made by these ancient farmers, buddy boyos?

@chudur-budur @gymletethnicel @RREEEEEEEEE @Sparrow's Song @kekfuel @FinnCel @Quasimodocel @NEETard
 
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This is so wrong, Egyptian civilisation was created by wewuzkangs. And other ones too. And then albino barbarians came to steal civilisation from wewuzkangs
 
Not reading this shitt because you didnt tag me at the bottom
 
Interesting history class, @JohnDcel
 
This is more of a prehistory discussion than a history discussion. I would assume these early farmers were often forced into cuckoldry or clubbed to death, basically slaves. Hypergamy and chad harems would have still been the default mode in these societies. Real enforced monogamy probably didn't exist until proper civilization, and even then it was cucked and chad harems were rampant. The agricultural lifestyle certainly led a overall decrease in the quality of human genetics, because hunter gathers would just kill each other and non chads would either be enslaved in some way or outright killed. Basically up until now there have been two kinds of societies, ones where most men are enslaved and cucked but stronger genes thrive or societies where people treat each other better, femoids have no rights and the people have more reason to live at the cost of allowing shitty genes to increase.

In our lifetimes, the artificial womb will liberate us from both of those societies.
 
Great post tbh. I'm not an expert in the field. My information is very basic when it comes to genetics and prehistory... Anyway, these early Middle Eastern farmers are the creators of civilization by abandoning their hunter-gatherer lifestyle and collecting wheat, and other plants and cultivating them. I've heard that Western Hunter gatherers used to cultivate plants and some kind of local wheat too but the first source of their food was hunting and collecting fruits, nuts, etc. It was the Natufians and the Anatolian farmers who quit completely their nomadic life and hunting to relay on cultivating the soil (it has sth to do with the desertification of the Middle East and North Africa I suppose...). This brilliant idea has contributed enormously to the increase of the human population growth but the new diet was very bad because it decreased height, and the chad features started to become more and more rare (correct me if I'm wrong). Before that, humans were threatened with extinction, but thanks to the Natufians and Anatolian farmers, humanity became a threatening species. Concerning the Ibero-Maurisians, I've always thought that they're a mix of a MENA and an Iberian groups but they were a mix of an ancient subsaharan African population linked to Hadza of Tanzania and a MENA population related to Natufians so the Subsaharan African presence in North Africa isn't as recent as many North Africans claim.
Do you think that the Natufians spoke a language that is the ancestor of Afro-asiatic languages?
This is so wrong, Egyptian civilisation was created by wewuzkangs. And other ones too. And then albino barbarians came to steal civilisation from wewuzkangs
Everyone has his favorite way of coping with reality.
 
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Great post tbh. I'm not an expert in the field. My information is very basic when it comes to genetics and prehistory... Anyway, these early Middle Eastern farmers are the creators of civilization by abandoning their hunter-gatherer lifestyle and collecting wheat, and other plants and cultivating them. I've heard that Western Hunter gatherers used to cultivate plants and some kind of local wheat too but the first source of their food was hunting and collecting fruits, nuts, etc.
Western Hunter Gatherers and Anatolian farmers were already related to each other even before the latter went to Europe.

It was the Natufians and the Anatolian farmers who quit completely their nomadic life and hunting to relay on cultivating the soil (it has sth to do with the desertification of the Middle East and North Africa I suppose...). This brilliant idea has contributed enormously to the increase of the human population growth. Before that, humans were threatened with extinction, but thanks to the Natufians and Anatolian farmers, humanity became a threatening species.
True and don't forget the Iranian farmers too.

Concerning the Ibero-Maurisians, I've always thought that they're a mix of a MENA and an Iberian groups but they were a mix of an ancient subsaharan African population linked to Hadza of Tanzania and a MENA population related to Natufians so the Subsaharan African presence in North Africa isn't as recent as many North Africans claim.
Do you think that the Natufians spoke a language that is the ancestor of Afro-asiatic languages?
I don't know about Afro-asiatic language since I haven't touched languages yet. As for subsaharan ancestry in North Africa, yes it was very old not recent. The Tarofalt individuals of Iberomaurisian who dated back 14,000 YB(upper Paleolithic) had 64% Natufian ancesty and 36% West African ancestry.
 
I don't know about Afro-asiatic language since I haven't touched languages yet. As for subsaharan ancestry in North Africa, yes it was very old not recent. The Tarofalt individuals of Iberomaurisian who dated back 14,000 YB(upper Paleolithic) had 64% Natufian ancesty and 36% West African ancestry.
So the migrations from Middle East and South Europe has made the Maghreb more Caucasoid and not the other way around jfl (many people claim Maghrebis were white and then they started mixing with Subsaharans after the Islamization of NA.)
 
So the magirations from Middle East and South Europe has made the Maghreb more Caucasoid and not the opposite jfl (many people claim Maghrebis were white and then they started mixing with Subsaharans after the Islamization of NA.)
Yes, it was mostly the migration from Levant that made North Africa more caucasoid, though gene flows into North Africa also occured from southern Europe at small portion.
 
Yes, it was mostly the migration from Levant that made North Africa more caucasoid, though gene flows into North Africa also occured from southern Europe at small portion.
North Africa was New York of the Ancient World tbh.
 
North Africa was New York of the Ancient World tbh.
I think North Africans who look Europeans are descendants of the European Muslims who escaped Spain during Spanish inquisition.
 
I think North Africans who look Europeans are descendants of the European Muslims who escaped Spain during Spanish inquisition.
No, I don't think so. Many North Africans has no link to Muslim Spain and don't live in areas where the Moriscos settled and look quite European.
 
Chads have higher amount of hunter gatherer genes.
 
@Legendarywristcel what's your thought bro?
 
No, I don't think so. Many North Africans has no link to Muslim Spain and don't live in areas where the Moriscos settled and look quite European.
White Romans were numerous in Maghreb until the Islamic Arab conquest.
 
White Romans were numerous in Maghreb until the Islamic Arab conquest.
They left little to no genetic legacy in the Maghreb. Roman Africans were most of the time just Latinized North Africans like Apuleius, Saint Augustin and Septimius Severus... It's the same thing happening now in the Maghreb most North Africans claim to be Arab but in fact they're just Arabized North Africans... There is a South European influence in the Maghreb but it's mainly prehistoric and mostly in the maternal side.
 
With all due respect, what do you expect us to discuss? It seems like you are just mentioning facts without providing sources.
I have studied anthropology online and I'm quite into the stuff but the material you have posted is not enticing unlike certain contemporary social issues. Social issues grant voters but economic issues grant sponsors. I wouldn't mind reading your sources as I want to read up on this.


It is said that men went clubbing during the stone age but there were many types of norms practised by different group during those thousands of years. Monogamy, polygamy, consensual gang banging and so on were practised by different groups of our ancestors during different times and so on.


I made an approximate family tree for humans which I post here as it, to me, appears that anything about history and prehistory can be posted.
Slakt trad 3 1
 
With all due respect, what do you expect us to discuss? It seems like you are just mentioning facts without providing sources.
I have studied anthropology online and I'm quite into the stuff but the material you have posted is not enticing unlike certain contemporary social issues. Social issues grant voters but economic issues grant sponsors. I wouldn't mind reading your sources as I want to read up on this.


It is said that men went clubbing during the stone age but there were many types of norms practised by different group during those thousands of years. Monogamy, polygamy, consensual gang banging and so on were practised by different groups of our ancestors during different times and so on.


I made an approximate family tree for humans which I post here as it, to me, appears that anything about history and prehistory can be posted.
View attachment 206641
Are you referring to me or @Quasimodocel ?
 
This is so wrong, Egyptian civilisation was created by wewuzkangs. And other ones too. And then albino barbarians came to steal civilisation from wewuzkangs
I agree with this.
 
This is so wrong, Egyptian civilisation was created by wewuzkangs. And other ones too. And then albino barbarians came to steal civilisation from wewuzkangs
Napoleon, what are your thoughts on Rem from RE:ZERO?
 
Brutal cavemanpill
 
Know anything about the Jomon people and Yayoi People, from which modern day japanese descended from?
 
Lame af God made us and thats that nigga
 
Know anything about the Jomon people and Yayoi People, from which modern day japanese descended from?
Phenotypically speaking, I think Jomon people seems to look like ancient East Eurasians who had just split from West Eurasians.
 
These days, I've been reading about the agriculturalists of west Asia that greatly change the course of human history as well as genetics. This is a summary I made, though it's not fully accurate.

So, it goes back to holecene days, which was 11,000-12,000 years back, when Younger Dryas(brief glacial condition) had just ended and the temperature began soaring, there used to be population of some mesolithic hunter gatherer groups living in west Asia( which comprises of Lebanon, Israel, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Jordan). These hunter gatherer groups comprised of Anatolian hunter gatherers, Natufian hunter gatherers and Iranian hunter gatherers, who gave up hunting and started doing farming during this period of holecene. The Anatolian hunter gatherers and Natufian hunter gatherers were almost completely related, as they both derive their ancestry from an unknown WEHG group(West Eurasian Hunter Gatherers) and baEu(basal Eurasian), though the differences were Anatolians had more WEHG(50-70%) ancestry compared to Natufians who had 50% WEHG ancestry, while Natufians had more BaEu ancestry(50%) and a little bit of Iranian ancestry. The Iranian hunter gatherers, however, were completely different from the these two populations, as Iranians derive 60-66% of ancestry from baEu and the rest(30-40%) from ANE(Ancestral Northern Eurasian) which was absent in both Natufians and Anatolians.

As the neolithic period begins, these hunter groups turned into farmers, admixing with each other and then expanding along with spreading farming to other places.

Natufians went to Levant and North Africa where they created the ancient Egyptian civilisation. The famous Egyptian mummies derived bulk of their ancestry from these Natufians. Natufians seem to be already present in North Africa even before the neolithic period began, as natufians make up bulk of the ancestry of Iberomaurusian culture's people from late upper Paleolithic in North Africa .

Anatolians agriculturalists, on the other hand, went to Southern Europe where they absorbed the already existing population of WHGs(Western Hunter Gatherers) and brought agriculture to Europe. They gave rise to first European civilisation, that is Aegan civilisation in Greece and other civilisations as well like Minoan civilisation. Modern day Southern Europeans derive their ancestry from these neolithic Anatolian farmers and this ancestry peaks in Sardinians in Europe.

Finally, the third group, the Iranian hunter gatherers went to far west part of South Asia where they admixed with South Asian hunter gatherers forming a population group called Indus Periphery that created the Indus valley civilisation and contributed largely to the ancestry of modern South Asians(curries). These Iranian hunterer gatherers also admixed with Levant farmers(Natufians+neolithic Anatolian) in Iran, forming a population group called Chalcolithic Iranians who are the major source of the ancestry of modern Iranians and Kurds. These Iranian farmers were related to the Caucasus Hunter Gatherers, a group that contributed to 40-45% of Indo-European ancestry.

So, what are your thoughts on the impact made by these ancient farmers, buddy boyos?

@chudur-budur @gymletethnicel @RREEEEEEEEE @Sparrow's Song @kekfuel @FinnCel @Quasimodocel @NEETard

I don't think this is entirely correct. The Indus Valley Civilization pre-dates both Mesopetamia and Ancient Egypt. Iranian hunter-gatherers have nothing to do with it. Also, aren't modern-day Anatolians Turkish instead of Greek? Today's Turks aren't even the same Turks from the Mongol era; today's Turks are Anatolian Turks.
 
I don't think this is entirely correct. The Indus Valley Civilization pre-dates both Mesopetamia and Ancient Egypt. Iranian hunter-gatherers have nothing to do with it.
Iranian hunterers do have to do with Indus valley civilisation. The recently published study done on the genome of the Indus valley woman had this ancestry.

Indus


Also, aren't modern-day Anatolians Turkish instead of Greek?
Modern day Anatolian Turks genetically cluster closer to Caucasians like Adygei, Armenians, Georgians etc not Greeks.
1385821686069

Today's Turks aren't even the same Turks from the Mongol era; today's Turks are Anatolian Turks.
Modern Anatolian Turks are different from Neolithic Anatolian farmers.
 
Iranian hunterers do have to do with Indus valley civilisation. The recently published study done on the genome of the Indus valley woman had this ancestry.

View attachment 206924


Modern day Anatolian Turks genetically cluster closer to Caucasians like Adygei, Armenians, Georgians etc not Greeks.
View attachment 206929

Modern Anatolian Turks are different from Neolithic Anatolian farmers.
How come Iran isn't a part of the India Valley Civilization then?
 
How come Iran isn't a part of the India Valley Civilization then?
Because Iran had its own small settlement and communities in Iran like Ganj Dareh, Chogha Golan, Chogha Bonut etc. When the Indus valley civilisation was at its mature phase, Iran had developed its own small civilisations in its various parts such as Zayandeh river culture, Jiroft culture(Southeast Iran) and Kura-Araxe culture(northwest Iran). Though neolithic Iran couldn't create big civilisation comparable to the Indus valley civilisation.
 
@FaceandHFD thoughts?
 

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