Gymcelled
Genetically shackled to hell
★★★★★
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2019
- Posts
- 11,124
John List is a man who murdered his wife, his 3 kids and his mother methodically when he snapped one day. He fled, created a new identity and lived his new life with a new wife for almost 2 decades. Why did he do such a thing? Let's look at the course of his life. Btw this isn't a "defense" ( ) of John List but rather an attempt to understand his mental state.
He was a veteran of the Korean war and married a widow whose husband died in that war. He worked as the vice president of a bank (status and moneymaxxing)
His wife had syphilis (supposedly from her 1st husband), which made her semi-invalid and made her blind in one eye. And you know what? She hid it from her husband and only admitted to it when her condition deteriorated. John List was a very religious, very conservative man, you can imagine how he felt when he found out. Plus rumor started spreading about his wife using drugs (which she also did) and having syphilis.
And you know what else? She loved talking shit and humiliating her husband, making disparaging comments about him as a man.
So a drug addicted, STD ridden whore who doesn't do anything all day talks shit to her husband, blames him for everything and attracts shame to her rural town. Brutal
There was also a bit about his daughter practicing witchcraft (you can imagine how this would shame him seeing as he was deeply religious) but i couldn't find any details on that.
But now now you might ask: "ok so why did it take him so many years to snap? What pushed him over the edge". Well he got fired from his job. He described his job as his "dream job". The humiliation was so great he tried to hide it from his wife and keep his routine.
He got another job but that job was shit and didn't pay well enough to maintain their quality of life.
That is when he decided to kill his family. He said he couldn't take the shame and knew they'd sink to poverty and would be "exposed to evil". In his mind the murders were a way to send them to heaven and spare them from "the evil of this world".
He methodically killed them one by one. First his wife, shot in the head while she was having her morning coffee and the kids were off to school. He then went up and shot his mom who was lying in bed. Then he killed the kids one by one as they came back from school. His last kid had a soccer game. John list went there to spectate and cheer him on like everything was normal despite the fact he had murdered the rest of his family
He drove him home and shot him in the head, but his son survived (???) and started struggling so he shot him 9 more times (seems really excessive)
He placed all the bodies of his family on a sheet, covered their face and left a note to his pastor. He left the house with some lights and music on, sent a letter to the school saying he'd be on vacation for a few weeks and his children wouldn't be in school. It took a month for his neighbor to call the police to investigate.
He moved to another state, used another name (Bob Clark), got a new job, joined a Lutharian congregation and married another woman.
In 1989, Fox's "America's Most Wanted" show aired an episode which included a clay bust of an aged version of John List, which actually turned out to be incredibly accurate That's how they caught him
In the second pic the bust is on the right, and the real John List is on the left.
Tbh John List was a deeply troubled individual desperate to religionmaxx, moneymaxx, statusmaxxed for the recognition of his family and his community. He wasn't an incel, though I'm sure that won't stop ITcels and soys from saying so
I think he's a good example of a guy trying to live a normal life who got mentally destroyed and soul crushed by both his wife and his loss of a dream job. Still his ability to carefully plan out such murders and live as if nothing happened is pretty unsettling. The part where he went to his kid's soccer game disturbs me the most
He was a veteran of the Korean war and married a widow whose husband died in that war. He worked as the vice president of a bank (status and moneymaxxing)
The Rev. Louis Grother, List’s pastor at Zion Lutheran Church in Kalamazoo, Mich., 10 years later, called List a ″hard-working, deeply moral″ man.
His wife had syphilis (supposedly from her 1st husband), which made her semi-invalid and made her blind in one eye. And you know what? She hid it from her husband and only admitted to it when her condition deteriorated. John List was a very religious, very conservative man, you can imagine how he felt when he found out. Plus rumor started spreading about his wife using drugs (which she also did) and having syphilis.
“To find his wife having a venereal disease was morally, ethically and religiously a very hard thing for him to accept,” Dr. Sheldon Miller, a psychiatrist who examined List, testified.
Dr. Henry Liss, a neurologist, testified that Helen drank four or five glasses of Scotch a day, and was addicted to tranquilizers.
And you know what else? She loved talking shit and humiliating her husband, making disparaging comments about him as a man.
Despite her frailty, she dominated List and taunted him, saying if he was “half the man her first husband was, the family wouldn’t have the troubles they were having,” according to the courtroom account of the Rev. Edward Saresky, who had been the Lists’ minister in Rochester.
So a drug addicted, STD ridden whore who doesn't do anything all day talks shit to her husband, blames him for everything and attracts shame to her rural town. Brutal
There was also a bit about his daughter practicing witchcraft (you can imagine how this would shame him seeing as he was deeply religious) but i couldn't find any details on that.
But now now you might ask: "ok so why did it take him so many years to snap? What pushed him over the edge". Well he got fired from his job. He described his job as his "dream job". The humiliation was so great he tried to hide it from his wife and keep his routine.
“His degree of humiliation and embarrassment reached the point where he couldn’t tell his wife he had lost his job,” psychologist Alan M. Goldstein testified Monday. For a while, until Helen List discovered the truth, List would leave the house every morning in his suit and tie, and hide out all day at the railroad station.
He got another job but that job was shit and didn't pay well enough to maintain their quality of life.
He found work as an insurance salesman, but his was hardly the personality for it. He also did some independent accounting work, but did not earn much that way either. Gradually, he depleted his mother’s $200,000 savings, the last few thousand of which was withdrawn just before he fled, investigators have said.
That is when he decided to kill his family. He said he couldn't take the shame and knew they'd sink to poverty and would be "exposed to evil". In his mind the murders were a way to send them to heaven and spare them from "the evil of this world".
He methodically killed them one by one. First his wife, shot in the head while she was having her morning coffee and the kids were off to school. He then went up and shot his mom who was lying in bed. Then he killed the kids one by one as they came back from school. His last kid had a soccer game. John list went there to spectate and cheer him on like everything was normal despite the fact he had murdered the rest of his family
He drove him home and shot him in the head, but his son survived (???) and started struggling so he shot him 9 more times (seems really excessive)
He placed all the bodies of his family on a sheet, covered their face and left a note to his pastor. He left the house with some lights and music on, sent a letter to the school saying he'd be on vacation for a few weeks and his children wouldn't be in school. It took a month for his neighbor to call the police to investigate.
In a five-page letter to his pastor, found on the desk in his study, List claimed that he saw too much evil in the world, and he had killed his family to save their souls. He then cleaned the various crime scenes, removed his own picture from family photographs in the house, tuned a radio to a religious station, and departed.
He moved to another state, used another name (Bob Clark), got a new job, joined a Lutharian congregation and married another woman.
In 1989, Fox's "America's Most Wanted" show aired an episode which included a clay bust of an aged version of John List, which actually turned out to be incredibly accurate That's how they caught him
In the second pic the bust is on the right, and the real John List is on the left.
Tbh John List was a deeply troubled individual desperate to religionmaxx, moneymaxx, statusmaxxed for the recognition of his family and his community. He wasn't an incel, though I'm sure that won't stop ITcels and soys from saying so
I think he's a good example of a guy trying to live a normal life who got mentally destroyed and soul crushed by both his wife and his loss of a dream job. Still his ability to carefully plan out such murders and live as if nothing happened is pretty unsettling. The part where he went to his kid's soccer game disturbs me the most
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