Discussion I've noticed people always do one of these 2 things when they tell their self-improvement story.

[Sergeant Kelly]

I’ve noticed – every time someone tells story about how they self-improved it’s always one of two things:
a) When you press them it turns out that they already had normal social life before improooving, it just got slightly better.
b) They never tell what actually improved in their life, they dodge the question and when you press them it turns out that nothing changed in their life and they just start saying some useless shit about “having better outlook now”.

This TBYS comment section in video on RR is full of second case:

You lost 50 lbs – and what? Do you have social life now? Are women attracted to you? Do people treat you with respect? Why did you started overfeeding yourself in the first place?

You’re quitting alcohol – and then what? Will your life actually improve, or will you still be knee-deep in shit as you always were, just with one less unhealthy cope? Why did you started to cope with alcohol in the first place?

You changed haircut and lost some weight and what? Are you more attractive to other people, or are you more attractive just in your own eyes? Why did you feel the need to "rework" how you look like in the first place?

I tried to socialize as much as I could and improooove for a year and a half.

It was insane how sturdy I was at the height of my gymcoping – I’d cycle 15 km to boxing gym, partake in training for hour and a half, then go lift weights to the “gym” part of the gym, then cycle 15 km back to home, then work out a little at home (push-ups etc.) then go outside to drink and “socialize”.

I lost 15 kg in two-three months. Some of the most disrespect I have gotten from strangers was during that period of time, I have made 0 friends and the only long lasting effect is that there are even more little shits younger 5-6 years than me that make fun of me when I run into them while on a walk in this god-forsaken town than there were before.

I have a thing where disproportionate amounts of fat gathers on my chest and arms - when I tighten and straighten up I look like strongfat gymcoper who is bulking but in reality I'm just a fat fuck I started to fatten on purpose last year and I have less people harassing me now, at least those who don't know me.

I’m unironically getting less disrespected by strangers now that I’m unathletic fat fuck, because I look bigger and stronger than I’m actually are. Improooving is so laughable to me now, it’s all about how other people perceive you, not what you are.

 

[PureImagination]

Fatcels = Fakecels (except me)

 

[GeckoBus]

I’ve noticed – every time someone tells story about how they self-improved it’s always one of two things:
a) When you press them it turns out that they already had normal social life before improooving, it just got slightly better.
b) They never tell what actually improved in their life, they dodge the question and when you press them it turns out that nothing changed in their life and they just start saying some useless shit about “having better outlook now”.

This TBYS comment section in video on RR is full of second case:

View attachment 1284847
You lost 50 lbs – and what? Do you have social life now? Are women attracted to you? Do people treat you with respect?

View attachment 1284846
You’re quitting alcohol – and then what? Will your life actually improve, or will you still be knee-deep in shit as you always were, just with one less unhealthy cope?

View attachment 1284848
You changed haircut and lost some weight and what? Are you more attractive to other people, or are you more attractive just in your own eyes?

I tried to socialize as much as I could and improooove for a year and a half.

It was insane how sturdy I was at the height of my gymcoping – I’d cycle 15 km to boxing gym, partake in training for hour and a half, then go lift weights to the “gym” part of the gym, then cycle 15 km back to home, then work out a little at home (push-ups etc.) then go outside to drink and “socialize”.

I lost 15 kg in two-three months. Some of the most disrespect I have gotten from strangers was during that period of time, I have made 0 friends and the only long lasting effect is that there are even more little shits younger 5-6 years than me that make fun of me when I run into them while on a walk in this god-forsaken town than there were before.

I’m unironically getting less disrespected by strangers now that I’m unathletic fat fuck, because I look bigger and stronger than I’m actually are. Improooving is so laughable to me now, it’s all about how other people perceive you, not what you are.

High IQ thread .

When people report successful self improvement, this usually is based on the assumption that they know why they succeeded, and how. The audience also has to fallaciously assume that the person telling them about their success, knows why they succeeded too. A further fallacious assumption is that, because someone succeeded, they must have done something right. Only in a few isolated cases, like with e-celeb bodybuilders like Eliot Hulse, do we get some honesty. Hulse openly says that he was blessed with superior genetics.

This also is true for drug use. Most drug users quit on their own. And the vast majority live normal lives, have social circles and never end up in treatment. This has skewed the perception of the association between thing drugs, addiction, unemployment and homelessness. Around half of homeless are employed either part- or full time. Most don't do drugs.

One often mentioned example comes from the Vietnam war. Although a great number of soldiers returned from the war with addictions, the vast majority dropped the drugs on their own. This should be impossible on the standard "addictive substances" model, where it is the substance that is the cause of the addiction, not other factors like the environment (war) or co-morbid issues like chronic disease making the person abuse pain killers etc.​

For more on the Vietnam example, look at this article:

More than 60 percent of detected addicts stopped all narcotic use as they left Vietnam and did not resume it after their return to the United States. About one-third continued to use but did not become readdicted, and only 7 percent have been addicted to narcotics since their return.​

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1775687/pdf/amjph00813-0048.pdf

Lookism also contributes, as we tend to think of drug users as low-class ugly and majority male. This is all wrong. For further study, this article is a good entry point:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3047254/

The book reviewed in that article can be downloaded here:

1.08 MB file on MEGA

mega.nz

Despite this, we constantly hear praises to people quitting drugs, and how hard it is etc. In reality, the vast majority of drug users quit on their own. Quitting drugs is EASY. The reason why a small subset of drug users has a hard time quitting is the same reason why we have a hard time quitting rotting on this forum - our live is shit, we have co-morbid problems (mental health, looks, health issues, trauma). The drugs are not addictive, just like the internet is not addictive. It is our circumstances that keep us trapped here.

On that note, I want to quickly inject this also: Social media use has not destroyed social lives at all. This idea, that social media has destroyed social life and "isolated" people is founded on the same fallacious selection bias as the drug issue - people that end up in treatment for excessive internet use are not normal people - no shit. Yet, the findings based on this tiny subgroup of people are reported as being relevant for the majority of the population.

Just like most people use drugs are remain highly functional, have jobs, kids, sex, are married, so are most people who use social media. The people have have issues with excessive internet usage usually have other, larger problems, and internet usage is just part of that package.
Here is a NYPost article where they talk to a researcher on this, who confirms my point:​

Still, previous studies have found the opposite: For instance, a study out just last year from the University of Pittsburgh found that people who spent over two hours a day on social media had twice the odds of feeling socially isolated, as compared to those who spent just 30 minutes a day or less.

So why did previous studies like this one find that social media led to loneliness? Hall says that many times the researchers just saw a correlation between social media use and loneliness, rather than firmly establishing causation. Consider a teenager who spends too much time alone perusing Facebook or Instagram. It could be that he was lonely to begin with and turns to social media for comfort, rather than the social media causing his loneliness in the first place.

On the other hand, because Hall’s research didn’t show any data linking social media to lost time with friends, family, or otherwise, he concluded that it’s impossible to say that social media deprives us of these important interpersonal interactions.​

Don’t blame social media for being lonely all the time

Stop blaming social media. Spending time on social media may not be making us as lonely as previously thought, according to a new study from the University of Kansas published in the journal Inform…

nypost.com

If anything, social media and dating apps have gashed open the already massive divide between subhumans and their better-thans even more. People that already were socially desirable now have even more access to social opportunities, whereas subhumans can be excluded even more effectively through systematic communication barriers (private chats etc).

Matthew principle: Those who already had social capital gain even more, i.e. women can get more attention than ever. And subhumans have more opportunity than ever to get socially destroyed by putting themselves online, getting doxxed, have their pictures saved and shared and so forth.

To go back to @Sergeant Kelly and his point, the whole idea of self-improvement ignores a ton of factors, some of which I will now list:

1. Assuming people can accurately evaluate others or themselves: This is blatantly wrong, or cognitive biases would not exist. Just to name some that massively impact how people judge each other and themselves: Lookism bias, halo effect, horns effect, apex fallacy, women are wonderful effect, in-group biases, fundamental attribution error, selfishness bias,... The list is endless. Peoples memories are not reliable either. Ultimately, few people can justify success based on their own experience or based on the experience of others (which they have no access to anyway).

2. Ignoring systematic factors/illusion of individualism: I already listed examples like social media use, drug addiction. Porn addiction would also fall under this. Our culture is schizophrenic on this issue. On one hand we are constantly told to avoid generalizations, yet soys and other groups happily generalize groups like men, incels, religious people etc. Systemic factors are usually only brought to the front-line to excuse behaviors of groups or individuals that people value, like women ("the patriarchy forced her to react, she had trauma"). Another neglected systemic factor is that, generally speaking, in all competitive systems only a few people win. A small number always dominates the rest. Success is slim in any competitive field, no matter where. Economics, art, sciences. Pareto-principle, 80/20 rule etc.

3. Never question foundations of beliefs: They never ask basic questions. Why does self-improvement only apply to men? Why do women not have to self improve, are they perfect? Why "improve" at all and why? Where did the obsession with improvement come from? For example, I recently learned that people did not see work as virtuous until the protestant reformation. In fact, leisure was seen as virtuous instead. Work was seen as punishment. Yet our culture and most proponents of "self-improvement" rhetoric take the mantra of work as virtue for granted.


Conclusion: Self-Improvement is a arbitrary term used as rhetorical club that has no basis in anything. When inquiring on the meaning and methodology of self-improvement, no answers can be found, collectively or on the individual level when asking people personally. Self-improvement is simply the assertion that someones problems are caused by a lack of progress on some arbitrary path towards "perfection" - a standard of perfection which is never specified either. To even mention self-improvement implies a problem exists that needs to be solved, in order to get the "prize."

In other circumstances, this would be considered emotional abuse, such as in the case of deliberate withholding of affection in relationships or when parents raise children based on "conditional validation." This is also why self-improvement is never applied to groups like women, since they are seen as victims, and self-improvement inherently implies responsibility for your lot in life. Nobody would tell a woman something like, "you are not a real woman yet, you gotta work on yourself girl."​

The End.

 

[Sergeant Kelly]

When people report successful self improvement, this usually is based on the assumption that they know why they succeeded, and how.

Yep, I remember some screencap from 4chan where advice to become social and outgoing was to ditch all forms of entertaiment/passing time and even remove all the personal stuff like posters from your room so that your brain will start enjoying hanging out with people out of deprivation.
Looking back at it that's good advice... if you're normal-looking person who has some condition that for whatever reason prevents your brain from releasing feel-good hormones when socializing with your fellow cattle. How many people like this are out there? Percentile? I think even less. But it was presented as general advice for lonely losers.
It's hip these days to claim/celebrate how we're all so "different" but nobody actually practices what they preach and takes that into consideration at all.

This also is true for drug use. Most drug users quit on their own. And the vast majority live normal lives, have social circles and never end up in treatment.

Most people who I've seen doing hard drugs or light drugs regularly were all outgoing normies/chadlites/chads. I imagine most of them will quit in their 30's when their old friendships/party circles will dissipate and it's no longer beneficial to take them.

If anything, social media and dating apps have gashed open the already massive divide between subhumans and their better-thans even more. People that already were socially desirable now have even more access to social opportunities, whereas subhumans can be excluded even more effectively through systematic communication barriers (private chats etc).

Truecel trait: your "friends" had second secret private chat that had all the same members as one you were in, just without you.

And subhumans have more opportunity than ever to get socially destroyed by putting themselves online, getting doxxed, have their pictures saved and shared and so forth.

CWC comes to mind, if it wasn't for the internet that nigga would spend his life just being local curiosity and he would never get mindbroken into trooning out and fucking his comatose mother.

Where did the obsession with improvement come from? For example, I recently learned that people did not see work as virtuous until the protestant reformation. In fact, leisure was seen as virtuous instead. Work was seen as punishment. Yet our culture and most proponents of "self-improvement" rhetoric take the mantra of work as virtue for granted.

This is good one.
There is something pseudo-religious and deeply disgusting about modern views on self-improvement.
I remember back in r/braincels era there was some guy who was making vocoded incel-themed parody songs. He made about 5 in total over a year, they were like minute-two minutes long.
Get this, top comment under one of his videos was "imagine if he put this much time into self-improving as he did into making these songs"
These people are fucking insane

Plain and simple - self-improvement people are cultists, shaming you, playing into your insecurities and selling wonder-solutions and promises to desperate, not unlike some people involved in financial pyramids, but unlike others this cult is tolerated and even celebrated because it gets hamsters to spin the wheel faster and fuels economy via more spending (beauty products, big cars, expensive clothes, gym memberships etc).

I remember some gay faggot on youtube who was claiming in his other videos how he "defeated his ego" making video on how incels supposedly spread blackpill because they want other people give up and suffer.
If anyhing, it's the opposite - most people obsessed with "self improvement" are deeply insecure and miserable, and misery loves company, they want you to feel as inadequate as they do and at the same time they want their coping mechanisms to be seen as virtuous and praiseworthy.

If I magically knew all that I know now in terms of blackpill, say, at the end of middle school, I might be even living a good life now. It's insane how many better decisions I'd make.
I would hop onto weekend school instantly and do some courses in the meantime as an excuse instead of getting all will to live sucked out of me over three years in pathological dysfunctional technical school, wasting time hopping different school courses, and getting hooked on SSRIs for a couple of years by some school shrink.
I'd start extramural studies right after finishing secondary education instead of gymcoping, wasting time drinking/trying to socialize and trying (and failing) various shitty jobs. I'd be finishing my education now instead of just starting it.
I wouldn't be local mockery.
Even now when I learned what I had to learn far too late, my life started improving - once I get over my traumas (at least 50% of which are thanks to following retarded bluepilled and redpilled shaming/advice) I have a chance to start living somewhat comfortable life, doing things that I actually like, maybe I'll even move out of this shithole one day.

And I can honestly say that I'd probably killed myself in high-school if it wasn't for finding incel forums.

That's the thing - you can't make good decisions or even cope properly if you don't have clear picture of reality. You can luck out and live good life despite understanding jack-shit if you have good genetics or if you're just plain lucky, sure, but if you don't - you need good understanding of your situation.

I suffered a lot because of their lies. That's why I'll ALWAYS hound these people and call out their bullshit whenever I see it, and I think this is why a lot of people who start blackpill channels do that aswell.