Discussion ISRAEL-HATER MASTER-THREAD: Bring me all of your Israel or Jew lies to destroy

[IncelGolem]

@RabbiJewCel @AtrociousCitizen @comradespiderman29 - Please link any other interested parties b/c I don't know them all.

Let's have an Israel thread. Off the top of my head, I've thought of the most common Zionist/Israel talking points. If you want to teach me how I'm wrong, feel free. Fair warning: It's all 100% wrong and I've read the subject matter about 100x more than any of you. But since you're the chosen people - please explain your righteousness.

PICK ANY ONE!!!!

1) that Palestinians sabotaged the peace process (that if Palestinians accepted the equivalent of a dusty basement in their home in 1947 they would have a state)
2) That the UN legitimately created Israel
2) that Israel has "always sought peace"
3) that Israel is a "democracy"
4) that all Israelis (including non-Jews) are equal and Israel is not an apartheid state
5) that Israel is a just creation as forgiveness for Holocaust
6) That just Netanyahu (or insert any other Israeli politician) is the problem and not the state itself
7) That Israel is always just "defending" itself
8) that Israel is the "most moral army in the world" LMAO!!!! at that one!!!
9) that Palestinians "fake their pain, aka pallywood"
10) that Palestinians are used as "human shields"
11) that Israel made a dessert [sic] into a paradise. HAHA! (actually explained that previously - but glad to again)
12) that river to a sea is a call to genocide
13) the war of 1948 was just inevitable self-defense for Israel - or even that they were the "underdog"
14) Palestinians sold their land - it was not taken (lol)
15) that even when palestinians left their land - it was on orders by their leaders and so O.K.
16) that Zionism is not colonialism it's "self determination" and/or "our people were here before your people"
17) Palestine is just an "invention" and/or Palestine identity is "fake" (this is a weirder Zionist talking point, if not the most outrageously offensive)

And my all time favorite one...
18) iTs jUsT sO inCrEdIbLy CoMpLiCatEd!!!! Because reading more than just a half dozen books on the subject is tOO hArD!!!

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

@RabbiJewCel @AtrociousCitizen @comradespiderman29 - Please link any other interested parties b/c I don't know them all.

Let's have an Israel thread. Off the top of my head, I've thought of the most common Zionist/Israel talking points. If you want to teach me how I'm wrong, feel free. Fair warning: It's all 100% wrong and I've read the subject matter about 100x more than any of you. But since you're the chosen people - please explain your righteousness.

PICK ANY ONE!!!!

1) that Palestinians sabotaged the peace process (that if Palestinians accepted the equivalent of a dusty basement in their home in 1947 they would have a state)
2) That the UN legitimately created Israel
2) that Israel has "always sought peace"
3) that Israel is a "democracy"
4) that all Israelis (including non-Jews) are equal and Israel is not an apartheid state
5) that Israel is a just creation as forgiveness for Holocaust
6) That just Netanyahu (or insert any other Israeli politician) is the problem and not the state itself
7) That Israel is always just "defending" itself
8) that Israel is the "most moral army in the world" LMAO!!!! at that one!!!
9) that Palestinians "fake their pain, aka pallywood"
10) that Palestinians are used as "human shields"
11) that Israel made a dessert [sic] into a paradise. HAHA! (actually explained that previously - but glad to again)
12) that river to a sea is a call to genocide
13) the war of 1948 was just inevitable self-defense for Israel - or even that they were the "underdog"
14) Palestinians sold their land - it was not taken (lol)
15) that even when palestinians left their land - it was on orders by their leaders and so O.K.
16) that Zionism is not colonialism it's "self determination" and/or "our people were here before your people"
17) Palestine is just an "invention" and/or Palestine identity is "fake" (this is a weirder Zionist talking point, if not the most outrageously offensive)

And my all time favorite one...
18) iTs jUsT sO inCrEdIbLy CoMpLiCatEd!!!! Because reading more than just a half dozen books on the subject is tOO hArD!!!

Point 4 is objectively true, and I can confidently say this because I live here. There's no way someone from abroad can accurately describe the reality of this place. At one time, there were some distinctions in the IDs, but that has since changed, and now every citizen, including Arabs, has the same ID. I've encountered numerous Arab doctors, dentists, and restaurants, and while some people may discriminate against them, it’s not systematic. They have the right to vote and are represented in the government.

An example of actual apartheid is the oppression blacks faced. They had no political representation, weren’t allowed to mix with whites by law. Separate shops, beaches, and jobs. Blacks only/whites only signs in shops No blacks permitted to hold high ranking posts and more.

In Israel an Arab judge jailed a Jewish president for corruption JFL.

 

[Britbong.Belgrade]

@forteanSocietySpy

 

[IncelGolem]

Point 4 is objectively true, and I can confidently say this because I live here. There's no way someone from abroad can accurately describe the reality of this place. At one time, there were some distinctions in the IDs, but that has since changed, and now every citizen, including Arabs, has the same ID. I've encountered numerous Arab doctors, dentists, and restaurants, and while some people may discriminate against them, it’s not systematic. They have the right to vote and are represented in the government.

An example of actual apartheid is the oppression blacks faced. They had no political representation, weren’t allowed to mix with whites by law. Separate shops, beaches, and jobs. Blacks only/whites only signs in shops No blacks permitted to hold high ranking posts and more.

In Israel an Arab judge jailed a Jewish president for corruption JFL.

It's like 4 AM in California right now, so my response will have to wait until tomorrow afternoon, but before I respond could you tell me, according to you:
what country is the West Bank in?

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

It's like 4 AM in California right now, so my response will have to wait until tomorrow afternoon, but before I respond could you tell me, according to you:
what country is the West Bank in?

It depends on the location. Area A is completely under the PA control so it's definitely not a part of Israel, Area B is under civil control by the PA but has Israeli security control, and Area C is fully controlled by Israel.

I would say Areas A and B are governed by the Palestinian Authority and not part of Israel and could be considered Palestine and area C is Israel. If I were to go to Area A for the example I would get lynched and beheaded, and the same would probably happen in Area B.

 

[IncelGolem]

It depends on the location. Area A is completely under the PA control so it's definitely not a part of Israel, Area B is under civil control by the PA but has Israeli security control, and Area C is fully controlled by Israel.

I would say Areas A and B are governed by the Palestinian Authority and not part of Israel and could be considered Palestine and area C is Israel. If I were to go to Area A for the example I would get lynched and beheaded, and the same would probably happen in Area B

So answer the question. If you want to separate area A & B from C - still answer. WHAT COUNTRY IS AREA A & B IN THE WEST BANK? You picked question #4 and this is central to the answer and you know exactly why.

what. country. is. it. ?

 

[EgyGuy]

israel didn’t just pop up thanks to the un waving a magic wand. nope, it came into being through a wild ruckus and a whole lot of messy ground-shuffling. we're talking about a sprinkle of shenanigans with palestinians and a dash of village wrangling. that's the chaotic circus that gave us modern israel, and no amount of fancy wordplay or sugar-coating can dress that up in a respectable outfit.

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

So answer the question. If you want to separate area A & B from C - still answer. WHAT COUNTRY IS AREA A & B IN THE WEST BANK? You picked question #4 and this is central to the answer and you know exactly why.

what. country. is. it. ?

Your question is kind of irrelevant, areas A and B are not under Israeli control, they are under control of Palestine and palestinian laws, which is the main point here that matters. Because of this, labeling them as apartheid isn't appropriate, the people there are not Israeli citizens, they are citizens of Palestine. The apartheid discussion usually focuses on Area C, where Palestinians are not Israeli citizens and are subject to Israeli military courts instead of normal courts like Israeli citizens.

This distinction is not based on race or ethnicity; it's a standard difference between citizens and non-citizens, as seen in every country.

You specifically said Israelis previously, Arab Israeli citizens have no actual legal bias against them.

 

[IncelGolem]

Your question is kind of irrelevant, areas A and B are not under Israeli control, they are under control of Palestine and palestinian laws, which is the main point here that matters. Because of this, labeling them as apartheid isn't appropriate, the people there are not Israeli citizens, they are citizens of Palestine. The apartheid discussion usually focuses on Area C, where Palestinians are not Israeli citizens and are subject to Israeli military courts instead of normal courts like Israeli citizens.

God you are retarded. You just admitted to apartheid right there.

"The apartheid discussion usually focuses on Area C, where Palestinians are not Israeli citizens and are subject to Israeli military courts instead of normal courts like Israeli citizens."

That is definitional apartheid, you fucking clownshit . You basically wrote it out letter to letter for me.

This distinction is not based on race or ethnicity; it's a standard difference between citizens and non-citizens, as seen in every country.

A Jew in West Bank is not treated differently from an Arab? Really?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somebody smarter challenge me. Not a mentally retarded jew....

 

[ilieknothing]

Your question is kind of irrelevant, areas A and B are not under Israeli control, they are under control of Palestine and palestinian laws, which is the main point here that matters. Because of this, labeling them as apartheid isn't appropriate, the people there are not Israeli citizens, they are citizens of Palestine. The apartheid discussion usually focuses on Area C, where Palestinians are not Israeli citizens and are subject to Israeli military courts instead of normal courts like Israeli citizens.

This distinction is not based on race or ethnicity; it's a standard difference between citizens and non-citizens, as seen in every country.

You specifically said Israelis previously, Arab Israeli citizens have no actual legal bias against them.

And why are they not citizens? Cause that would ruin the demographics of a so called “democracy”?

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

God you are retarded. You just admitted to apartheid right there.

"The apartheid discussion usually focuses on Area C, where Palestinians are not Israeli citizens and are subject to Israeli military courts instead of normal courts like Israeli citizens."

That is definitional apartheid, you fucking clownshit . You basically wrote it out letter to letter for me.

A Jew in West Bank is not treated differently from an Arab? Really?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somebody smarter challenge me. Not a mentally retarded jew....

The problem with what you are saying is that they are not treated differently because they are Arab, they are treated differently because they are non-citizens. If they were treated differently because they were Arabs then Arab citizens would not be equal to Jews. You calling me retarded repeatedly just shows you are not even trying to argue in good faith, I came here because I thought we could have a nice respectful discussion but you keep on insulting me.

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

And why are they not citizens? Cause that would ruin the demographics of a so called “democracy”?

That's part of the reason. Just as I believe Germany should primarily be for Germans and the UK for Brits, I think Israel needs to maintain a Jewish majority. On top of that, there are security concerns, as various terrorist groups operate in the West Bank, and many terror attacks originate from there. If you wanted to allow citizenship, it would require a thorough vetting process for each person. Furthermore, many people in that region don’t even wish to be part of an "Israeli" state.

 

[IncelGolem]

The problem with what you are saying is that they are not treated differently because they are Arab, they are treated differently because they are non-citizens. If they were treated differently because they were Arabs then Arab citizens would not be equal to Jews. You calling me retarded repeatedly just shows you are not even trying to argue in good faith, I came here because I thought we could have a nice respectful discussion but you keep on insulting me.

Your premise only make sense in terms of a temporary military operation.

But it has been approx. 3 DECADES since Oslo II. Since then, not only has Israel failed to follow the Oslo Accords, it has significantly increased illegal land seizures.

How do you explain that?

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

Your premise only make sense in terms of a temporary military operation.

But it has been approx. 3 DECADES since Oslo II. Since then, not only has Israel failed to follow the Oslo Accords, it has significantly increased illegal land seizures.

How do you explain that?

I agree that illegal land seizures are wrong, and many here oppose them. As of the Oslo Accords, there are numerous reasons for their failure, including the massacre at the Cave of the Patriarchs and the assassination of Rabin by a far-right extremist, which you likely already know.

But Israel is not the only one responsible for this failure; Hamas and Islamic Jihad's bombings also played a role. Despite some successes during the Oslo process, both sides failed to fulfill their commitments, faced internal political opposition, and saw a lack of progress in negotiating final status issues and both sides also had violent outbreaks. These factors undermined the trust-building aspect of Oslo, which was meant to pave the way for a final peace agreement. And eventually this whole approach broke down completely with the failure of the Camp David Summit in 2000 and the subsequent outbreak of the Second Intifada.

The truth is the situation in the West Bank is pretty complex. I believe one solution to the issue in the West Bank is to establish it as an independent Palestinian state. However, this is currently unfeasible due to significant opposition from both sides, whether it be far-right groups in Israel or extremists in the West Bank. Even if the entire West Bank were given to the Palestinians to form a country, it could lead to the emergence of another constant threat on Israel's border just like Gaza (look what happend after Israel left Gush Katif, nothing changed and shit got worse), as many Palestinians won't be content with just the West Bank.

 

[ilieknothing]

That's part of the reason. Just as I believe Germany should primarily be for Germans and the UK for Brits, I think Israel needs to maintain a Jewish majority. On top of that, there are security concerns, as various terrorist groups operate in the West Bank, and many terror attacks originate from there. If you wanted to allow citizenship, it would require a thorough vetting process for each person. Furthermore, many people in that region don’t even wish to be part of an "Israeli" state.

So Israel doesn’t treat Arabs as equals, thanks for confirming

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

So Israel doesn’t treat Arabs as equals, thanks for confirming

My Arab orthodontist disagrees with you.

 

[ilieknothing]

My Arab orthodontist disagrees with you.

So why doesn’t Israel offer citizenship to all Arabs in Palestine and the descendants of all those kicked out in 1948?

Not equal

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

So why doesn’t Israel offer citizenship to all Arabs in Palestine and the descendants of all those kicked out in 1948?

Not equal

Are you aware that around 60% of Palestinians in the West Bank support a maximalist Palestine? Do you think it's reasonable for Israel to simply grant citizenship to 3 million people without considering the security risks and the impact on the country's ability to focus on Israeli interests?

 

[ilieknothing]

Are you aware that around 60% of Palestinians in the West Bank support a maximalist Palestine? Do you think it's reasonable for Israel to simply grant citizenship to 3 million people without considering the security risks and the impact on the country's ability to focus on Israeli interests?

Yes, because they live where Israel has control and Israel claims to be a democracy

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

Yes, because they live where Israel has control and Israel claims to be a democracy

The majority of Palestinians in the West Bank, around 2.7 million, live in areas A and B. Israel has no control over Area A and only maintains security control in Area B. So saying they live where Israel has control is kind of wrong.

 

[ilieknothing]

The majority of Palestinians in the West Bank, around 2.7 million, live in areas A and B. Israel has no control over Area A and only maintains security control in Area B. So saying they live where Israel has control is kind of wrong.

They build roads and whatnot unimpeded in the West Bank, they can and do whatever they want there. It is an apartheid state and should stop claiming to be a democracy, it is not

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

They build roads and whatnot unimpeded in the West Bank, they can and do whatever they want there. It is an apartheid state and should stop claiming to be a democracy, it is not

They can't actually do that in Area A at all, and Area B is similar. As far as I know, Israel needs approval from the PA for area B. What you're referring to is Area C. The only things that usually happen in Area A, such as in cities like Jenin, are occasional arrests and dismantling of terrorist operations, which sometimes happen with cooperation from the PA.

 

[ilieknothing]

They can't actually do that in Area A at all, and Area B is similar. As far as I know, Israel needs approval from the PA for area B. What you're referring to is Area C. The only things that usually happen in Area A, such as in cities like Jenin, are occasional arrests and dismantling of terrorist operations, which sometimes happen with cooperation from the PA.

The point is that they can and do significantly affect the lives of Arabs who are not citizens due to their race and ethnic makeup, despite living there for generations.

As a result it is not a democracy and it is indeed and apartheid state

 

[KingOfInceldia]

Holocaust was a lie used to push the establishment of Israel for filthy baby mutilating kikes.

That's the story of Israel

 

[KingOfInceldia]

 

[Enigmaz]

Osama bin Laden didn't do it. It was planned by "THEM"

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

View attachment 1296303

There's so much bullshit that has been debunked in this video, it's unbelievable—I won't even address everything, but it claims the conditions were better than American prisons, which is absurd:

Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[IncelGolem]

My Arab orthodontist disagrees with you.

That solves it. One arab is allowed to be a dentist in his homeland. Are you a legit retard/

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

That solves it. One arab is allowed to be a dentist in his homeland. Are you a legit retard/

That’s not the point. I shared an anecdote because his argument is merely an opinion, and my anecdote serves to express my own opinion. He believes that Israel not granting citizenship to 3 million people constitutes apartheid, I don't think so. To each their own.