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Discussion I agree with commies on the theory of alienation

ElTruecel

ElTruecel

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now I do obviously disagree with communism and do disagree with their bullshit theories (surplus value, dialectical materialism, labor theory of value, etc) but the theory of alienation has some truth to it. The theory of alienation states that humans are alienated from being human in the workforce. I feel like in modern day this does have some truth as in the Corporatocracy neoliberal society we are commodities in a machine. This system is not adjusted to take into consideration the humanity of a person. The worker is alienated from being human in our modern society and this is is the result of our kike ran neoliberal shithole.
 
Communism literally creates alienation though because it fucking destroys culture and communities and turns people into factory drone slaves for the state. All post industrial societies are shit it doesn't matter if communist or capitalist. All are alienating.
 
Marx’ economic theories have a lot of good points. It’s just that all efforts to build a commie paradise on earth have proved futile. Maybe human civilization is supposed to be hierarchical and most people are doomed to be slaves to the system, kek
 
now I do obviously disagree with communism and do disagree with their bullshit theories (surplus value, dialectical materialism, labor theory of value, etc) but the theory of alienation has some truth to it. The theory of alienation states that humans are alienated from being human in the workforce. I feel like in modern day this does have some truth as in the Corporatocracy neoliberal society we are commodities in a machine. This system is not adjusted to take into consideration the humanity of a person. The worker is alienated from being human in our modern society and this is is the result of our kike ran neoliberal shithole.

I agree with the idea that the bourgeoisie can't understand the issues of the proletariat, but then with toilets as the bourgeoisie and men as the proletariat.
 
tCommunism literally creates alienation though because it fucking destroys culture and communities and turns people into factory drone slaves for the state. All post industrial societies are shit it doesn't matter if communist or capitalist. All are alienating.

No , that is capitalism. Capitalism commodifies all prior culture and thereby curates access to it. Actual Communism will enable the creation of a human culture noncommodofoed and unmediated by gatekeepers.
 
Marx’ economic theories have a lot of good points. It’s just that all efforts to build a commie paradise on earth have proved futile. Maybe human civilization is supposed to be hierarchical and most people are doomed to be slaves to the system, kek

This process, caused by capitalism, has to occur before you can get to Communism. This was not happening in 1917 Russia or 1949 China or 1959 Cuba. You cannot have a proletarian revolution before capitalist immiseration has started to occur, which socializes the working class within capitalism. It's a very specific process and is only now beginning to occur (the "Great Reset").



This “alienation” (to use a term which will be comprehensible to the philosophers) can, of course, only be abolished given two practical premises. For it to become an “intolerable” power, i.e. a power against which men make a revolution, it must necessarily have rendered the great mass of humanity “propertyless,” and produced, at the same time, the contradiction of an existing world of wealth and culture, both of which conditions presuppose a great increase in productive power, a high degree of its development. And, on the other hand, this development of productive forces (which itself implies the actual empirical existence of men in their world-historical, instead of local, being) is an absolutely necessary practical premise because without it want is merely made general, and with destitution the struggle for necessities and all the old filthy business would necessarily be reproduced; and furthermore, because only with this universal development of productive forces is a universal intercourse between men established, which produces in all nations simultaneously the phenomenon of the “propertyless” mass (universal competition), makes each nation dependent on the revolutions of the others, and finally has put world-historical, empirically universal individuals in place of local ones. Without this, (1) communism could only exist as a local event; (2) the forces of intercourse themselves could not have developed as universal, hence intolerable powers: they would have remained home-bred conditions surrounded by superstition; and (3) each extension of intercourse would abolish local communism. Empirically, communism is only possible as the act of the dominant peoples “all at once” and simultaneously, which presupposes the universal development of productive forces and the world intercourse bound up with communism. Moreover, the mass of propertyless workers – the utterly precarious position of labour – power on a mass scale cut off from capital or from even a limited satisfaction and, therefore, no longer merely temporarily deprived of work itself as a secure source of life – presupposes the world market through competition. The proletariat can thus only exist world-historically, just as communism, its activity, can only have a “world-historical” existence. World-historical existence of individuals means existence of individuals which is directly linked up with world history.


This phenomenon is absolutely indispensable, and it is caused by the tendency of the rate of profit to fall under conditions of universal competition and the use of technology as a labor savings device as an increased proportion of economic activity. As profits decline, the capitalist class takes property off the workers (whether through zoning laws, or inflation, or taxation - any method they can) in order to boost their profits. It reaches a point where they great mass of humanity must do the dame to the capitalist class or die en masse. This is Marx's theory of Communism. It is a highly specific crisis theory of social transformation, and not some utopian political project to be implemented at will.


Now, does this tally with what we are observing in the Western economy and?

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No , that is capitalism. Capitalism commodifies all prior culture and thereby curates access to it. Actual Communism will enable the creation of a human culture noncommodofoed and unmediated by gatekeepers.
Capitalism commodifies culture, communism purges culture. I see no merit in either. Maybe a communist society that doesn't also burn it's culture could exist... maybe. But both the Soviets and China decimated the cultures that they came from. And personally I don't believe that just because people are proletariat or whatever that they will naturally all get along and form this non hierarchical utopia or whatever. Having only wealth in common is not enough of a common ground for true bonds. It takes centuries of culture and tradition to build a community, not just rallying people in the same tax bracket.
 
Capitalism commodifies culture, communism purges culture. I see no merit in either. Maybe a communist society that doesn't also burn it's culture could exist... maybe. But both the Soviets and China decimated the cultures that they came from. And personally I don't believe that just because people are proletariat or whatever that they will naturally all get along and form this non hierarchical utopia or whatever. Having only wealth in common is not enough of a common ground for true bonds. It takes centuries of culture and tradition to build a community, not just rallying people in the same tax bracket.

See my above post. This is a long-haul view of capitalism. Communism proper will be built on the uniculture produced by world capitalism ("The proletariat can thus only exist world-historically, just as communism, its activity, can only have a “world-historical” existence").

We're entering a period of mass immiserstion that capitalist outlets are calling the Great Reset. This is the abolition of property for the working class under capitalism and may last decades or centuries. The next step is the abolition of property for the capitalist class. This process was not occurring in feudal Russia, feudal China etc. What feudal Russia and feudal China had was not socialism (which Marx uses interchangeably with Communism).

No one, I think, in studying the question of the economic system of Russia, had denied its transitional character. Nor, I think, has any Communist denied that the term Socialist Soviet Republic implies the determination of Soviet power to achieve the transition to socialism, and not that the new economic system is recognized as a socialist order.
- V.I. Lenin, "Left-Wing Childishness and the Petty-Bourgeois Mentality"

So if Lenin didn't think the Soviet Union was socialist - what did he think it was?

State capitalism, modeled on the German war economy.
While the revolution in Germany is still slow in “coming forth”, our task is to study the state capitalism of the Germans, to spare no effort in copying it and not shrink from adopting dictatorial methods to hasten the copying of it. Our task is to hasten this copying even more than Peter hastened the copying of Western culture by barbarian Russia, and we must not hesitate to use barbarous methods in fighting barbarism. If there are anarchists and Left Socialist-Revolutionaries (I recall off-hand the speeches of Karelin and Ghe at the meeting of the Central Executive Committee) who indulge in Narcissus-like reflections and say that it is unbecoming for us revolutionaries to “take lessons” from German imperialism, there is only one thing we can say in reply: the revolution that took these people seriously would perish irrevocably (and deservedly).

Communism isn't a nonhierarchical utopia. That's some far future dream. Communism is simply social production for need rather w production for market exchange. There will still be hierarchies within the factors of production based on skill and experience and so on. The only difference is that money won't be ezchanged for goods, but time directly, and a basic level of social need (food, shelter, transportation) will be universally met not through government redistribution but through direct production etc. The cause of this transformation is a universal crisis induced by the abovementioned process of immiseration, the start of which we are seeing now.

Marx doesn't require the workers to "all get along", for instance.


Communism is quite incomprehensible to our saint because the communists do not oppose egoism to selflessness or selflessness to egoism, nor do they express this contradiction theoretically either in its sentimental or ‘it its high-flown ideological form; they rather demonstrate its material source, with which it disappears of itself. The communists do not preach morality at all, as Stirner does so extensively. They do not put to people the moral demand: love one another, do not be egoists, etc.; on the contrary, they are very well aware that egoism, just as much as selflessness, is in definite circumstances a necessary form of the self-assertion of individuals. Hence, the communists by no means want, as Saint Max believes, and as his loyal Dottore Graziano (Arnold Ruge) repeats after him (for which Saint Max calls him “an unusually cunning and politic mind”, Wigand, p. 192), to do away with the “private individual” for the sake of the “general”, selfless man. That is a figment of the imagination concerning which both of them could already have found the necessary explanation in the Deutsch-Französische Jahrbücher. Communist theoreticians, the only communists who have time to devote to the study of history, are distinguished precisely by the fact that they alone have discovered that throughout history the “general interest” is created by individuals who are defined as “private persons”. They know that this contradiction is only a seeming one because one side of it, what is called the “general interest”, is constantly being produced by the other side, private interest, and in relation to the latter it is by no means an independent force with an independent history — so that this contradiction is in practice constantly destroyed and reproduced. Hence it is not a question of the Hegelian “negative unity” of two sides of a contradiction, but of the materially determined destruction of the preceding materially determined mode of life of individuals, with the disappearance of which this contradiction together with its unity also disappears.
 
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Communism literally creates alienation though because it fucking destroys culture and communities and turns people into factory drone slaves for the state. All post industrial societies are shit it doesn't matter if communist or capitalist. All are alienating.
Yup that’s why need third positionism
 
Capitalism commodifies culture, communism purges culture. I see no merit in either. Maybe a communist society that doesn't also burn it's culture could exist... maybe. But both the Soviets and China decimated the cultures that they came from. And personally I don't believe that just because people are proletariat or whatever that they will naturally all get along and form this non hierarchical utopia or whatever. Having only wealth in common is not enough of a common ground for true bonds. It takes centuries of culture and tradition to build a community, not just rallying people in the same tax bracket.
True
 
Marx’ economic theories have a lot of good points. It’s just that all efforts to build a commie paradise on earth have proved futile. Maybe human civilization is supposed to be hierarchical and most people are doomed to be slaves to the system, kek
 

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