S
This is one of my first blackpills. Long but worth the read.
Tl;dr Huge difference in the way people treated him after the surgery.
Background: This was posted in 2012., long before incels gained exposure, so nobody can say he posted it to push incel agenda. It's a post from a forever alone type forum where a lot of people are bluepilled. There is a female mod there who presents arguments like "I don't find [hot celebity] that attractive, so obviously beauty is relative teehee". Generally every discussion goes towards the conclusion that looks don't matter and good looking people actually have it harder in life. I guess that's why he posted this story there.
It's a foreign forum, I translated it hastily so excuse the weird phrasing.
Introduction (skip this if you want):
"It was the transition from elementary to high school. My best friend at the time got sick and tired of being called names like fatso from other kids. He was fat, obviously. From the beginning of June, all the way to the beginning of the school year, he didn't eat dinner. He started running, spent two months swimming. When he got back, he was half in size, and not in a bad way. Puberty was taking its course and, in a couple of years, from once an ugly duckling, he turned into a mix of Johhny Depp and George Clooney, not into a fucking swan. Girls started to come along.
I'm telling you this story because you might have witnessed something similar yourself. Maybe you've heard a similar story, or have seen this happen to your friend with your own eyes. And maybe it happened to you.
When you ask people who experienced it in what way people perceive them as different, it's hard to get an answer that makes sense. They usually say that they feel more comfortable in their own skin, that's why they are more cheerful. And because they are more cheerful, people like them more. And because people like them, they are even more cheerful. And so on.
The problem is this: the change was happening too slow. A few years (even months) is a too big time period for the brain to figure out what is going on and to start connecting cause and consequence properly. What happened to me was sudden. And it was extreme.
I have always been a shy and quiet kid. I was nice, passive and obedient, just what adults expect from a child. Those are not the same criteria which other kids had. They were the opposite. It seemed like the more adults like you, the more kids hate you. Because of my good grades, quiet demeanor and a tendency to avoid conflicts, I was often bullied. Sometimes I would come home in tears. Apart from a few good friends I made then everybody pretty much ignored or screwed with me. It wasn't easy.
I remember that transition to high school. My friend decided to lose weight, and I decided not to get messed with any more. I thought how I would have a fresh start. There people must be better mannered, I won't get messed with that much. And they don't know they messed with me before (it's always harder to escape a downward spiral because people get used to the fact that you are... something). However, it was similar, just less in intensity, because people really were better mannered than back in elementary school. But still it was often me who was bullied. Now I wasn't the only one being bullied, and not even half that often, and I had more friends, but still. I started wondering what it was like that. How did they figure out that I was an easy target? Was it written on my forehead?
I had no idea. Unlike my friend, I didn't transform into a model. I was more or less averagely ugly.
Regarding girls, I'll just say this: I remained a shy and passive kid.
I got into college, and there people pretty much stopped messing with me. On my third year, I found out I have a medical condition which could become very serious. "If it hasn't been serious so far, it won't become now", I said to myself and forgot about it. And really, nothing happened.
During college I actually had some experiences with girls, but far less than average. Five months passed since graduating and it was the fifth month that I was looking for a job. I wasn't going that well.
An another misfortune happened, that condition became so serious that I had to deal with it. Without going into too much detail, there were such headaches that you feel like someone turned on an oven in you head. I passed out a couple of times.
After a lot of consulting, I had a surgery scheduled. The surgeon told me that the surgery would be long and the recovery would last at least two months, but there was also good news. During the main surgery, an aesthetic correction could be performed. Now i don't want you to think that a tumor is sticking out of my eye, or that I have a huge mole: from the outside, it wasn't that obvious that there was something wrong medically.
He told me to think about it, left me a his colleague's number for further consulting. That colleague was a therapist. I didn't understand the meaning of this, but oh well. I contacted him, and realized what was the point during the first session. He warned me about the changes that come with aesthetic surgery, that people very often get depressed, and similar. It all made sense, and I took him very seriously. I got back to my doctor and the surgery was scheduled in four and a half weeks.
After a couple of days an idea occurred to me. If the therapist warned me about perception of people [maybe he meant how people perceive him] before and after the surgery, I thought I would test out if they would treat me different me at all, or people get depressed for some other reason, like again not being satisfied with what they look like. How to do this? Relatively easy.
I'll do the same things now and note how people treat me. After the surgery I'll do it again and see if there is any difference. The sample must be large enough to make the experiment meaningful. I set 25 days and 3 tasks per day. So 75 independent tasks. I'll give you just a couple of them."
Before the surgery:
"1.
I was on a music event with my friends and I thought how after the current song an another one would fit nicely. I told my friends to wait and climbed up to the girls who were the DJs.
-"Hi. I love this song, is there any chance you could play XY during the night?"
-"Hm, we'll see."
I stayed there, watching them mix stuff and search for songs. I liked them and I wanted to talk to them more, but I had no idea about what. I was looking at CDs, records and equipment and waiting for the next sentence to cross my mind.
-"Are you waiting for someone here or...?" -asked one of them suddenly.
I looked at her. The tone of her voice and her look were telling me everything. They didn't want me there. After a minute or two I left. I didn't hear the song I requested.
2.
Saturday evening, I'm out with a friend. I was bored and I thought I could approach a girl, finally. When I say finally, it's because I've never approached a girl before. In the past when I would end up with a girl, it would be because she would chose me or because we would hang drunk out often enough for something to happen.
I was scared shitless. To make it easier, I picked a pretty fat girl. Plain. No one must have tried to pick her up tonight, and surely no one will, and who knows if anyone ever does. She will be thrilled when anyone approaches her, even if he was the biggest loser. And I'm still a lever above the biggest loser. In the losers' league, I'm somewhere in the middle.
-"Hi, I'm X."
-Hi.
My mind turned blank. I wasn't expecting just a hi. What to say now? I don't find anything about her or her equally curvy friend interesting. Hmm. What was I thinking today? Something normal. Right!
-"You know, I was thinking, how come tooth paste comes in a tube? Doesn't that suck? If some falls out, you can't put it back in. Why do you think they still didn't change the packaging?"
-"I don't know."
Again, from the tone of her voice and her look it was clear.
-"Ok. Bye!"
I was coming back to my friend and I was angry. At myself, at her, at the whole world. THAT FAT CUNT BLEW ME OFF. I hate her. Now I stroked her ego because I approached her, and what about me? I didn't even want anything to do with her, and she rejected me. Fucking cunt. I had a shot and approached another one.
-"Hi, I'm X."
-"I don't care who you are." *turns away*
What the fuck! Who the fuck these girls think they are? What am I a leper? The rest of the evening didn't go any better. I made my "line" more normal and shorter, but still. They would just say yes or no and turned away. They weren't interested.
3.
Another Saturday. At a party at my friend's. Instead of just taking to the people I know and or watching from the side, I make an effort to meet everybody. I do so at every party. To make a good impression. Add girls on facebook afterwards and so on. I won't get into any details, I'll just say that out of 23 girls 7 added me."
After the surgery:
"The surgery came and passed. The pain I went though was terrible and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. After some
time, the pain went away. After 7 weeks, I was a new man. I looked at myself in the mirror and I was... handsome.
It was weird looking at myself like that. I smiled to myself. I looked at myself from every angle. It was
beautiful. I finally looked the was I wanted. I took pictures of myself and when comparing with older ones
I thought, "fuck, I'm so glad I don't look like that anymore." I wanted the whole world to see me.
Before that, it was time to redo the same 75 tasks. Before I even started, I noticed right away that people treat me differently. Before, I merely existed and was mostly ignored until someone needed something from me, but now people would actively approach me. Before, since I'm not particularly socially skilled, I concluded that you
should approach people as often as they approach you. That's normal and if I would approach more, it would be
creepy. And since they approached rarely, so did I.
And now, what a difference! People seemed to be looking for an excuse to talk to me, at last it seemed so compared to the way it was before.
Before, when a funny-embarrassing situation happened, like when the [female] clerk was giving me a napkin and I dropped the whole sandwich, it would be just embarrassing. A short laugh and that's it. Almost unbelievable, but without even wishing for it, the same thing happened again.
This time everything was different. The clerk was saying sorry, offered me a new sandwich saying how clumsy SHE was while smiling the whole time. I couldn't believe it. Ok, that could have been a coincidence, this clerk would've maybe reacted the same the first time. That's why, after all, I created the test. From previously described scenarios, this is how they went down afterwards.
1.
It was an another club, another music event. There was one [female] DJ and two other guys. Still, I wasn't waiting for an ideal situation, I went for it.
-"Hey. This song reminded me of XYZ which I love, I think it would fit this groove. Is there a chance you will play it?"
-"Oh, I totally forgot about that one. Thx, we'll play it for sure. By the way, I dig that song too."
The conversation was opening up, hm. I stayed a bit while she was doing something on the computer. After a couple of minutes she turned around.
"You know these guys?" she said and looked at the two guys. But it wasn't like the first time, when it was
obvious that they want to get rid of me. It was like she was really interested.
"No. Sorry if I'm bothering you, though. I was just interested in how you guys mix this."
"Haha, no problem. You know what if you're still there when this set is over, hit me up and will have a drink."
"Ok."
I was coming down and thinking what just happened. Ok, it wasn't the same girl. Maybe those two before had pms
or they just didn't like me and this one is just overly friendly. Wtf.
2.
Approach time! I'm looking at a girl that seems like an easy target. I still find it hard to approach hot girls, or if too many people are around. Finally I find a group that seems ok, two girls. Looks like they're not having the best time.
"Hey, I'm X."
"Hi X."
"What do you think about this. I know it's retarded, but I was thinking about this today and fuck it. Anyway, isn't that tooth paste packaging totally unpractical?"
"Haha. What?"
"You know, if some falls out, you can't put it back in."
"I didn't think of that."
"It's fucking annoying."
"Don't brush your teeth then."
"If I didn't have teeth I think that you would've blown me off already."
"Haha, true."
"Well, what are your names?"
...
I understand that I'm not a player and that my line is pretty dumb but what can I say. I always felt awkward when approaching.
3.
There was a few parties over the next couple of months. 21 friend request - 19 added me. Ok, that's a bit more
like it.
Also, I don't know if it's a coincidence, but 3 weeks after the surgery I got a job. They surely don't hire based on looks because I'm not a model, but it's a strange coincidence. Or not.
All in all, my life turned upside down in a second. Kids who change in puberty change gradually over time. Not me. One day a [subhuman], the next day a pretty decent looking guy. Everything else stayed the same. And I can feel that the psyche is just taking in all the changes.
It's a huge shock actually, to see the differences in the way you're perceived based on your looks. In one case you're invisible, getting a reaction only when you initiate, or when they need something from you. In other case everyone sticks to you, as though they think a part of your beauty will transfer to them.
I don't get it. I'm still the same person. For now. I don't guarantee that I'll be the same person 6 months from now. Probably not. I'll probably feel better than other people, I'll probably get rid of my complexes and I probably won't have any trouble approaching. I'll probably assume that she wants me as soon as i say hi.
People tell me I'm more happy and relaxed, maybe that's it. Who wouldn't be when people treat you like a demigod? Actually, let me rephrase that, they treat you like an equal member of society, maybe a tiny bit better than that. Before, when I was a [subhuman], everyone's behaviour towards me sucked. No one wanted me or wanted to be near me, although I have the same intellectual abilities as then. Now people look me in the eye more, laugh more often, initiate conversations. I got at least twice as many messages and calls than before. Everything changed, everything. Just because of one surgery.
Out of those 75 tasks, in 67 I got better results. I really tried to be objective.
And now people say how confidence matters, how you should self improve. All that is bullshit. You can self improve all you want, but if you're [subhuman], you'll be [subhuman]. Unless you get rich or become some hot shot. [LMS?]
If people have no use of you, generally they won't want to have anything to do with you. I can't remember a smart man who said that a man is to another man either a goal or a means to an end.
And that's it. The problem is that people will have something to gain of me being, well, good looking. What? Social status because they hang out with a good looking person? Do they think that I'm successful just because I'm good looking? I don't have problems and I'm a better person, more psychologically stable and more normal, because I'm good looking? Idiots. I've started to think less and less of people honestly. Which is exactly what I was warned of before the surgery.
The reality is much more simple and more ugly than we think. Good looking people are doing well, and the rest
manage [you could say cope] somehow. That is the cold, hard truth."
The comments on that thread are a combination of "water is wet, people are attracted to attractive people" and "it's not the way you look, it's the way you see yourself." If looks don't matter, I don't know why people are advised to see a therapist before surgery.
Tl;dr Huge difference in the way people treated him after the surgery.
Background: This was posted in 2012., long before incels gained exposure, so nobody can say he posted it to push incel agenda. It's a post from a forever alone type forum where a lot of people are bluepilled. There is a female mod there who presents arguments like "I don't find [hot celebity] that attractive, so obviously beauty is relative teehee". Generally every discussion goes towards the conclusion that looks don't matter and good looking people actually have it harder in life. I guess that's why he posted this story there.
It's a foreign forum, I translated it hastily so excuse the weird phrasing.
Introduction (skip this if you want):
"It was the transition from elementary to high school. My best friend at the time got sick and tired of being called names like fatso from other kids. He was fat, obviously. From the beginning of June, all the way to the beginning of the school year, he didn't eat dinner. He started running, spent two months swimming. When he got back, he was half in size, and not in a bad way. Puberty was taking its course and, in a couple of years, from once an ugly duckling, he turned into a mix of Johhny Depp and George Clooney, not into a fucking swan. Girls started to come along.
I'm telling you this story because you might have witnessed something similar yourself. Maybe you've heard a similar story, or have seen this happen to your friend with your own eyes. And maybe it happened to you.
When you ask people who experienced it in what way people perceive them as different, it's hard to get an answer that makes sense. They usually say that they feel more comfortable in their own skin, that's why they are more cheerful. And because they are more cheerful, people like them more. And because people like them, they are even more cheerful. And so on.
The problem is this: the change was happening too slow. A few years (even months) is a too big time period for the brain to figure out what is going on and to start connecting cause and consequence properly. What happened to me was sudden. And it was extreme.
I have always been a shy and quiet kid. I was nice, passive and obedient, just what adults expect from a child. Those are not the same criteria which other kids had. They were the opposite. It seemed like the more adults like you, the more kids hate you. Because of my good grades, quiet demeanor and a tendency to avoid conflicts, I was often bullied. Sometimes I would come home in tears. Apart from a few good friends I made then everybody pretty much ignored or screwed with me. It wasn't easy.
I remember that transition to high school. My friend decided to lose weight, and I decided not to get messed with any more. I thought how I would have a fresh start. There people must be better mannered, I won't get messed with that much. And they don't know they messed with me before (it's always harder to escape a downward spiral because people get used to the fact that you are... something). However, it was similar, just less in intensity, because people really were better mannered than back in elementary school. But still it was often me who was bullied. Now I wasn't the only one being bullied, and not even half that often, and I had more friends, but still. I started wondering what it was like that. How did they figure out that I was an easy target? Was it written on my forehead?
I had no idea. Unlike my friend, I didn't transform into a model. I was more or less averagely ugly.
Regarding girls, I'll just say this: I remained a shy and passive kid.
I got into college, and there people pretty much stopped messing with me. On my third year, I found out I have a medical condition which could become very serious. "If it hasn't been serious so far, it won't become now", I said to myself and forgot about it. And really, nothing happened.
During college I actually had some experiences with girls, but far less than average. Five months passed since graduating and it was the fifth month that I was looking for a job. I wasn't going that well.
An another misfortune happened, that condition became so serious that I had to deal with it. Without going into too much detail, there were such headaches that you feel like someone turned on an oven in you head. I passed out a couple of times.
After a lot of consulting, I had a surgery scheduled. The surgeon told me that the surgery would be long and the recovery would last at least two months, but there was also good news. During the main surgery, an aesthetic correction could be performed. Now i don't want you to think that a tumor is sticking out of my eye, or that I have a huge mole: from the outside, it wasn't that obvious that there was something wrong medically.
He told me to think about it, left me a his colleague's number for further consulting. That colleague was a therapist. I didn't understand the meaning of this, but oh well. I contacted him, and realized what was the point during the first session. He warned me about the changes that come with aesthetic surgery, that people very often get depressed, and similar. It all made sense, and I took him very seriously. I got back to my doctor and the surgery was scheduled in four and a half weeks.
After a couple of days an idea occurred to me. If the therapist warned me about perception of people [maybe he meant how people perceive him] before and after the surgery, I thought I would test out if they would treat me different me at all, or people get depressed for some other reason, like again not being satisfied with what they look like. How to do this? Relatively easy.
I'll do the same things now and note how people treat me. After the surgery I'll do it again and see if there is any difference. The sample must be large enough to make the experiment meaningful. I set 25 days and 3 tasks per day. So 75 independent tasks. I'll give you just a couple of them."
Before the surgery:
"1.
I was on a music event with my friends and I thought how after the current song an another one would fit nicely. I told my friends to wait and climbed up to the girls who were the DJs.
-"Hi. I love this song, is there any chance you could play XY during the night?"
-"Hm, we'll see."
I stayed there, watching them mix stuff and search for songs. I liked them and I wanted to talk to them more, but I had no idea about what. I was looking at CDs, records and equipment and waiting for the next sentence to cross my mind.
-"Are you waiting for someone here or...?" -asked one of them suddenly.
I looked at her. The tone of her voice and her look were telling me everything. They didn't want me there. After a minute or two I left. I didn't hear the song I requested.
2.
Saturday evening, I'm out with a friend. I was bored and I thought I could approach a girl, finally. When I say finally, it's because I've never approached a girl before. In the past when I would end up with a girl, it would be because she would chose me or because we would hang drunk out often enough for something to happen.
I was scared shitless. To make it easier, I picked a pretty fat girl. Plain. No one must have tried to pick her up tonight, and surely no one will, and who knows if anyone ever does. She will be thrilled when anyone approaches her, even if he was the biggest loser. And I'm still a lever above the biggest loser. In the losers' league, I'm somewhere in the middle.
-"Hi, I'm X."
-Hi.
My mind turned blank. I wasn't expecting just a hi. What to say now? I don't find anything about her or her equally curvy friend interesting. Hmm. What was I thinking today? Something normal. Right!
-"You know, I was thinking, how come tooth paste comes in a tube? Doesn't that suck? If some falls out, you can't put it back in. Why do you think they still didn't change the packaging?"
-"I don't know."
Again, from the tone of her voice and her look it was clear.
-"Ok. Bye!"
I was coming back to my friend and I was angry. At myself, at her, at the whole world. THAT FAT CUNT BLEW ME OFF. I hate her. Now I stroked her ego because I approached her, and what about me? I didn't even want anything to do with her, and she rejected me. Fucking cunt. I had a shot and approached another one.
-"Hi, I'm X."
-"I don't care who you are." *turns away*
What the fuck! Who the fuck these girls think they are? What am I a leper? The rest of the evening didn't go any better. I made my "line" more normal and shorter, but still. They would just say yes or no and turned away. They weren't interested.
3.
Another Saturday. At a party at my friend's. Instead of just taking to the people I know and or watching from the side, I make an effort to meet everybody. I do so at every party. To make a good impression. Add girls on facebook afterwards and so on. I won't get into any details, I'll just say that out of 23 girls 7 added me."
After the surgery:
"The surgery came and passed. The pain I went though was terrible and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. After some
time, the pain went away. After 7 weeks, I was a new man. I looked at myself in the mirror and I was... handsome.
It was weird looking at myself like that. I smiled to myself. I looked at myself from every angle. It was
beautiful. I finally looked the was I wanted. I took pictures of myself and when comparing with older ones
I thought, "fuck, I'm so glad I don't look like that anymore." I wanted the whole world to see me.
Before that, it was time to redo the same 75 tasks. Before I even started, I noticed right away that people treat me differently. Before, I merely existed and was mostly ignored until someone needed something from me, but now people would actively approach me. Before, since I'm not particularly socially skilled, I concluded that you
should approach people as often as they approach you. That's normal and if I would approach more, it would be
creepy. And since they approached rarely, so did I.
And now, what a difference! People seemed to be looking for an excuse to talk to me, at last it seemed so compared to the way it was before.
Before, when a funny-embarrassing situation happened, like when the [female] clerk was giving me a napkin and I dropped the whole sandwich, it would be just embarrassing. A short laugh and that's it. Almost unbelievable, but without even wishing for it, the same thing happened again.
This time everything was different. The clerk was saying sorry, offered me a new sandwich saying how clumsy SHE was while smiling the whole time. I couldn't believe it. Ok, that could have been a coincidence, this clerk would've maybe reacted the same the first time. That's why, after all, I created the test. From previously described scenarios, this is how they went down afterwards.
1.
It was an another club, another music event. There was one [female] DJ and two other guys. Still, I wasn't waiting for an ideal situation, I went for it.
-"Hey. This song reminded me of XYZ which I love, I think it would fit this groove. Is there a chance you will play it?"
-"Oh, I totally forgot about that one. Thx, we'll play it for sure. By the way, I dig that song too."
The conversation was opening up, hm. I stayed a bit while she was doing something on the computer. After a couple of minutes she turned around.
"You know these guys?" she said and looked at the two guys. But it wasn't like the first time, when it was
obvious that they want to get rid of me. It was like she was really interested.
"No. Sorry if I'm bothering you, though. I was just interested in how you guys mix this."
"Haha, no problem. You know what if you're still there when this set is over, hit me up and will have a drink."
"Ok."
I was coming down and thinking what just happened. Ok, it wasn't the same girl. Maybe those two before had pms
or they just didn't like me and this one is just overly friendly. Wtf.
2.
Approach time! I'm looking at a girl that seems like an easy target. I still find it hard to approach hot girls, or if too many people are around. Finally I find a group that seems ok, two girls. Looks like they're not having the best time.
"Hey, I'm X."
"Hi X."
"What do you think about this. I know it's retarded, but I was thinking about this today and fuck it. Anyway, isn't that tooth paste packaging totally unpractical?"
"Haha. What?"
"You know, if some falls out, you can't put it back in."
"I didn't think of that."
"It's fucking annoying."
"Don't brush your teeth then."
"If I didn't have teeth I think that you would've blown me off already."
"Haha, true."
"Well, what are your names?"
...
I understand that I'm not a player and that my line is pretty dumb but what can I say. I always felt awkward when approaching.
3.
There was a few parties over the next couple of months. 21 friend request - 19 added me. Ok, that's a bit more
like it.
Also, I don't know if it's a coincidence, but 3 weeks after the surgery I got a job. They surely don't hire based on looks because I'm not a model, but it's a strange coincidence. Or not.
All in all, my life turned upside down in a second. Kids who change in puberty change gradually over time. Not me. One day a [subhuman], the next day a pretty decent looking guy. Everything else stayed the same. And I can feel that the psyche is just taking in all the changes.
It's a huge shock actually, to see the differences in the way you're perceived based on your looks. In one case you're invisible, getting a reaction only when you initiate, or when they need something from you. In other case everyone sticks to you, as though they think a part of your beauty will transfer to them.
I don't get it. I'm still the same person. For now. I don't guarantee that I'll be the same person 6 months from now. Probably not. I'll probably feel better than other people, I'll probably get rid of my complexes and I probably won't have any trouble approaching. I'll probably assume that she wants me as soon as i say hi.
People tell me I'm more happy and relaxed, maybe that's it. Who wouldn't be when people treat you like a demigod? Actually, let me rephrase that, they treat you like an equal member of society, maybe a tiny bit better than that. Before, when I was a [subhuman], everyone's behaviour towards me sucked. No one wanted me or wanted to be near me, although I have the same intellectual abilities as then. Now people look me in the eye more, laugh more often, initiate conversations. I got at least twice as many messages and calls than before. Everything changed, everything. Just because of one surgery.
Out of those 75 tasks, in 67 I got better results. I really tried to be objective.
And now people say how confidence matters, how you should self improve. All that is bullshit. You can self improve all you want, but if you're [subhuman], you'll be [subhuman]. Unless you get rich or become some hot shot. [LMS?]
If people have no use of you, generally they won't want to have anything to do with you. I can't remember a smart man who said that a man is to another man either a goal or a means to an end.
And that's it. The problem is that people will have something to gain of me being, well, good looking. What? Social status because they hang out with a good looking person? Do they think that I'm successful just because I'm good looking? I don't have problems and I'm a better person, more psychologically stable and more normal, because I'm good looking? Idiots. I've started to think less and less of people honestly. Which is exactly what I was warned of before the surgery.
The reality is much more simple and more ugly than we think. Good looking people are doing well, and the rest
manage [you could say cope] somehow. That is the cold, hard truth."
The comments on that thread are a combination of "water is wet, people are attracted to attractive people" and "it's not the way you look, it's the way you see yourself." If looks don't matter, I don't know why people are advised to see a therapist before surgery.
