Hmm. Then that means anything and everything that has ever happened before the invention of cameras has insufficient evidence for its existence.
Yes and no. For example, If someone in history said they saw a guy get nailed to cross and died, then it would be reasonable to believe it happened because it has happended before. It's possible. But if someone said that they saw the spirit of Jesus rise from his dead body then it wont be reasonable to believe it happened because it is impossible. That is a supernatural event. We cannot prove that supernatural events are real. The bottom line is that seeing a guy get nailed to cross is a possible event but it's impossible for a guys spirit to rise from his dead body. It's more reasonable to assume that the former (not the latter) event occured
Last edited:
You see it in the video. Claims are not evidence. Even if an entire population claims to have seen something it is null because of "insufficient evidence". In that case the claims of an entire room of 100-300 people tmeans absolutely nothing, and they only "thought" about laserbeams. Nothing can be proven ever this way.
Do you believe that Jesus was resurrected?
I think the point is its dependant on the claim itself
If its something normal, that can be reasonably believed or even simply observed today eg. A man domesticating a cow. This is very believable
If the claim is not normal and can not be reasonably believed eg. laserbeams from eyes. Then just because a bunch of people claim thats true, its not enough, its completely unprecedented and would require further digging
I am a firm believer that god exists, but he is not how most people describe him.
Yes. You have moral duty to question your beliefs, that's why we're arguing right now. That's however not really the point, I'm just saying this specific talking about doesn't prove or disprove anything.
This is why I don't believe that Jesus performed miracles and.was resurrected
Aside from that YouTube short, you cannot prove that God is real or that Jesus was raised from the dead
Well what is normal is completely subjective. If you hold a life full of the supernatural the disbelief of that would seem supernatural to you.
Modern people would struggle to understand the minds of those ancient people, they were eager to be the first ones over castle walls during siege attacks, today, that is absolutely suicidal, back then, men would fight each other for the privilege quote on quote.
Those are claims of abnormal actions. Do they mean nothing?
I don't have the burden of proof in this situation.
Those stories from the Bible like Adam and Eve, noahs ark, and Moses splitting the sea in half are made up stories by ancient people. You are believing in something that cannot be proven. The claims made the authors of the Bible are hearsay
117 billion humans have existed.
Of them, 0.5% at most was ever atheistic. This has been an alien thought up until the 1800s where freaks like Marx wrote their manifestos.
The overwhelming majority of humans have been religious, again, the burden of proof is in your hands, by definition. You can't just go prove it to me lol
Humans believed in religion because they have nothing else to believe in. You can't prove that God is real, when I ask you to do it, you make up excuses
yeah they had. They had not believing in God lol. You're never forced to. Newton, Galileo, Kepler, Pascal, etc and etc all chose to believe in God. You're in the extreme minority of people that have never believed in God, and no, you can't just say they were all dumb and illiterate because you're not smarter then Newton
Islam is a pretty easy religion to debunk, because since the quran and hadiths are supposedly accurate, you have to accept shit like 9yos being mature enough for sex and like the video said, the moon being split during a time where both the romans and Chinese were keeping records of the moon
the other guy looks more like an atheist, brutal oofy doofy
I never claimed to be smart like Newton. I'm saying that you are making up excuses to avoid proving the existence of god. And btw, just because someone intelligent like Newton or Galileo believed in God doesn't mean that God is really. Referring to smart people who personally believed in God is irrelevant.
You are completely missing the point. Are you familiar with Burden of Proof?
why do u even need an argument to debunk god
god is an invisible magical being with no particular location, of course he doesn't exist
god isn't important if I can't see him
god is an invisible magical being with no particular location, of course he doesn't exist
god isn't important if I can't see him
You are completely missing the point. Are you familiar with Burden of Proof?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I do know what burden of proof means. I said that we don't have evidence to prove God exists, now it's your turn to explain yourself
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I do know what burden of proof means. I said that we don't have evidence to prove God exists, now it's your turn to explain yourself
@never began, he is right
This guy is dating a troon
The atheist movement was created to destroy everyone. To destroy all cultures and religion. To make you depressed and confused. Ultimately you will LDR
Are you talking about me?
Good example, I still think that its not really subjective whats normal to such a large extent to rationale away ressurections and seas parting, these are obviously unnatural unrepeating occurences that are not seen, documented or hypothesised to be repeatable events, I dont think its subjective.
In terms of your actual example it was different times, I think attacking a castle and fighting in a war carried different rewards and reasons than wars do now
I doubt this, I hate to be that guy but do you have a source or something? I can seem them being motivated to fight but fighting eachother for the privilege? Maybe its just hyperbolic and im reading into it too much
I don't agree with that, it's too difficult to disprove a god exists, he is omnipotent right? I presume you are religious so feel free to provide a more accurate description but god isnt really observable by us mere mortals so how are we meant to disprove his existence, if god is real, shouldnt the burden of proof be on the theists? If he is real, this shouldnt be that much of a challenge, theres things that are very real that I could go and provide proof of its existence right now, and I wouldnt bother debating over a burden of proof because its pretty moot when its so simple for me to go prove the existence of something such as gravity, why isnt the same with god, if he is so real then theists could just get busy proving it instead of spending all their time talking.
I live in a place where practice of witchcraft is a geniune issue. I fully believe I have encountered the supernatural a few times and that my life was in geniune danger. Of course, you could scoff at this and call me crazy, but thats from your perspective of normal. In my perspective, the supernatural is normal. Not to sound too schizophrenic.
They were metal af dude. The marines and the legionaries in the roman Scipio's army were about to kill each other since both claimed to climb Carthage's walls first. They would have too if Scipio hadn't hurried and decided to give full honours for both parties instead of just one.
Like I said, completely insane when you look at it from a modern lens.
How do you prove God? How do you disprove him? I agree, its very difficult to do so. Its what we've been trying to do for millenia lol. I was arguing about Burden of proof because its a real annoyance when you're discussing this topic. The idea is, most people to ever live have believed in God, they are the majority, the burden isnt theirs. Its the athiest's duty to provide an answer and a better alternative. I have never seen an atheist argument that also has morality sewed into it, but that isnt the talking point right now.
I believe in God because I believe it is mathematically more likely. I havent ever explained this thought process to anyone in detail so bear with me.
Imagine two routes.
God is real. Unlikely as it is. If the existance of God is real, everything that comes after, like the creation of the universe, is a certainty that does not need to be debated.
God is not real. Now, the universe needs to spontaneously Big Bang for reasons (undisclosed). That is an unlikely chance. Now, the dust in the universe needs to be gathered into gas, unlikely chance, that matter, (which cannot be created or destroyed, until you're dealing with advanced physics lol) needs to form into stars, and planets, and asteroids need to carry water that will eventually cool down the earth. Thats not even mentioning the wave of unlikely events that needed to happen for humanity to even exist, ALL completely detached from one another.
If certain things were centimeters apart in this earth, life would be impossible. Our existance is carried by the idea that things that would be mathematically virtually impossible just so happened to be. Over and over again. Most of our understanding of the universe is accepted hearsay, much like you'd call God. @Logic55 . Every so often our understanding of how everything works is completely destroyed and reshaped, thats how science operates. The inexistance of God is much much much more unlikely then the existance of one, and choosing to believe that over God simply due to 'no evidence' isnt any different then just straight up believing in a God.
Do you believe the Christian God is real or do you believe in a different god?
I suppose even though this point isnt too relevant to the overall discussion, ill give my thought on it anyway.
It seems like what you described is the aftermath of a battle, where the bravest soldiers would get the glory and rewards, it seems in your example they are fighting over the aftermath, but they arent fighting over who gets to suicide first, sounds cool either way.
So to clarify your point so I dont misrepresent what you are saying in any way, are you saying that because over the entire time of earth, most people have believed in a god (probably true) so its correct?
If so my response is I disagree with majority opinions and democracy
Some common ground we might share about this is the blackpill, the majority of the world does not know of the blackpill or disagrees with it but we both know it to be true, I don't think the majority is always right, humans are herd animals and need each other to survive, humans exiled from the tribe would die (this is another reason people probably believed in god) so its human nature.
I think again, if I am representing you correctly, you are saying it is a 50/50, either god exists or does not? I think thats some type of logical fallacy.I believe in God because I believe it is mathematically more likely. I havent ever explained this thought process to anyone in detail so bear with me.
Imagine two routes.
God is real. Unlikely as it is. If the existance of God is real, everything that comes after, like the creation of the universe, is a certainty that does not need to be debated.
God is not real. Now, the universe needs to spontaneously Big Bang for reasons (undisclosed). That is an unlikely chance. Now, the dust in the universe needs to be gathered into gas, unlikely chance, that matter, (which cannot be created or destroyed, until you're dealing with advanced physics lol) needs to form into stars, and planets, and asteroids need to carry water that will eventually cool down the earth. Thats not even mentioning the wave of unlikely events that needed to happen for humanity to even exist, ALL completely detached from one another.
If certain things were centimeters apart in this earth, life would be impossible. Our existance is carried by the idea that things that would be mathematically virtually impossible just so happened to be. Over and over again. Most of our understanding of the universe is accepted hearsay, much like you'd call God. @@Logic55 . Every so often our understanding of how everything works is completely destroyed and reshaped, thats how science operates. The inexistance of God is much much much more unlikely then the existance of one, and choosing to believe that over God simply due to 'no evidence' isnt any different then just straight up believing in a God.
Yeah its crazy lucky about the earth and the distance from the sun and all that, so is winning the lottery, did god have a hand in that too? I think luck is just luck.
I think as well, another random tidbit is that humans want to perceive things as more novel and self important which is how the idea of a god can come around, and anecdotally I can attest to this at least because I do want to genuinely believe in a god, I think its cool as fuck, as well as the positive effects it has on society which is great for alot of things overall including inceldom which is why we are even discussing this right now kek
But I think it is just luck or whatever, I don't really know and I never will, maybe when I die something will happen to me and I will transcend this plane or whatever, I have no clue really and I don't think a god without any substantial proof is the answer.
Everything about us and this universe could be entirely insignifcant
View: https://youtu.be/ycvlJ9XMd94?si=-YLON3hW7TfxqsNH
such as this? what if our universe is a result of something ultimately insignificant.
Both happened, I just typed out the first incident I remembered. Obviously the other case would only happen between individual soldiers since two units of the same army infighting during an unresolved siege is not good for business.
It's just the case where lots of atheists for some reason think they have no responsibility in the argument and it's the theist that must carry all the conversation, making it impossible to have a regular argument. If you're trying to prove an abnormal theory, you have burden of proof. Atheism is abnormal in this case. Not that it is necessarily wrong, but it isn't the accepted claim, since so many more people believed in God. Per example, if you were to try to dispute the big bang, you're the one that has to step forward and disprove the idea of the big bang, not the other way around. That is the reason I avoided logic55 so much. I'm only arguing with you here because I did actually gain an interest.
Well, lots of religions have sprouted about, but not once, a society without a God has appeared. Maybe, God is necessary for civilization, but that's a whole other argument. Theoretically, all it'd need is a few key people in a tribe to not believe in God then it'd all fall into place for the first atheist tribe to appear. That never happened. No group was forced to create a religion.
I'm not bothered about the significance of us, looking for religion in that is cope. I never cope, unless there's no hoes on my dick (always). Seriously though, indeed, you could just say we "just got lucky ", but whenever a person wins the lottery once or twice, they are extremely lucky. When a person is going all around the country winning every lottery in the nation, you'd suspect they're frauding. There's a point where you can't realistically say it was just luck, and the laws of the universe crossed that line long ago. I don't believe in God because of the impact it has on society, or whatever, that never had any meaning. I think Atheists who talk about how Religion is important just want their cake and to eat it too. I believe in God because it doesn't make sense not to, for me there's a 99.99 against 0.1 chance God exists.
I don't need to debunk something with zero evidence for it
R
Matt is total clown brings up dumb ass arguments, i've been a caller on his show he supports communism.
I don't agree with all his views but he is right when he says that believing in Christianity is irrational because the Bible is based on hearsay from ancient people. If someone from thousands of years ago said they saw a miracle occur with their own eyes, they cannot be trusted. It was common for ancient people to fabricate religions.
I think you're describing me then, I see it that way since I see god as abnormal where as you do not, personally I find the atheists claim that it is abnormal stronger than the theists, I think its an unresolvable difference of opinion for us though and I think this particular discussion point has run its course for us now and we both presented our sides.
To quickly add on to it though, while throughout a majority of time more humans than not believed in god, I think the value of what present people think now, is more valuable than what people thought now.
There are multiple reasons for this, wont go too into detail just to present points for us to ruminate over since I dont see either of us swaying in one direction or the other, but you have a general higher IQ, higher understanding of the world, death is more scarce etc. you seem smart so im sure you understand what I mean and dont need to list it all off, basically to summarise what the present people think now is probably more valuable than what someone thought 1000 years ago
I would say that has to be proven, the idea of big bang seems interesting, perhaps even plausible enough based off my limited knowledge and just my limited estimate, ive never seriously looked into it, I don't necessarily believe in it though, my ultimate answer is that I dont know and no one knows, as opposed to believing in a god or being a theist in your case
Interesting, do you know of other smaller religions that have happened in history that died out? I only know the big ones like christianity, islam, buddhism, jewish etc.
I said this more of an overall reason as why to if god and religion is false, it can kind of lull the human psyche into believing religon, since AFAIK the human mind looks for patterns and significance for thing subconciously, and we can view ourselves and our species more self important than we are
So in your mind its like a 99% chance god exists?
Yeah its extremely lucky, I think science in this way writes it off with theories of there being multiple universes? Or the universe being so infinite that eventually anything extremely lucky can happen? Ultimately no clue, not sure, my ultimate answer is that I dont know, and dont find enough evidence for a god for example, theres also multiple religions, I dont think they can all be right even though heaps of people believe in them
more or less. We came full circle from when we were talking about the supernatural lol. See last section.
I think thats arrogant. Ancient people werent dumber then us, nor were they smarter, academic knowledge isnt inherently better then per example street smarts. Knowledge is knowledge. If you had to survive in the forest, would you prefer to rely on the knowledge of a hunter from 1066 or a mathematics teacher that never left the city? Also, Davinci and Newton were christians. Neither of us are smarter then those guys. Their beliefs shouldnt be pushed away because they didnt have smartphones.
Expanding on that further, the big bang theory, was created by a catholic priest. You can google this btw. See last section.
Meh, not particularly interested anymore. As I was stabilishing my faith I gave every major religion a survey to be sure I was right. In the end, most other religions have glaring flaws or are plain evil. The worship of Moloch per example is just killing children. Not good.
We dont know. Our understanding of the universe is finnicky and fragile, and most accepted explanations dont make sense when you really put it in perspective.
Reread what you said. ''Yeah theres infinite worlds and possibilities all happening at the same time for no reason which conveniently makes my beliefs possible.'' how is that any more logical then believing in God? For you God is abnormal because it challenges your stabilished beliefs. When presented with something that abided more to your view of the world, you were more comfortable to accept it, that being the big bang, again, created by an actual priest. Right now, it doesn't seem you're very willing to hop over your comfort zone into an idea that invalidates all of your previous knowledge. That's fine, maybe more experiences in your life will get you readier, or you'll become super jaded and become one of those crashouts that jerk off to dead women. Happens alot in this site. Fuck it tho bro its your life.
If God is real, he doesn't care about us.
I don't think he ever did
Yeah I really like your perspective, I think we've both raised very good points.
Oh thats interesting, chatgpt elaborated on it a bit too, cool.
And are you a christian now? Which religion?
Yeah I know its crazy, I think its crazy for a different reason than an omnipotent being, I don't really have any established belief like that too, ultimately I don't know, maybe thats one of the reason im put off religion, im thinking it provides a false sense of certainty to people in a way, I think claiming to know it all is probably BS
My biggest kek of the day so far
Burden of proof usually does the trick. You just watch the Christcuk, Muzzycel or Hindujew trying to tell you that something can be real even if you can't prove it.
Sure. Fair argument. I can not prove that I have a hot 5/10 foid that lets me extinguish cigarettes on her skin, therefore she is real. Perfect logic.
Sure. Fair argument. I can not prove that I have a hot 5/10 foid that lets me extinguish cigarettes on her skin, therefore she is real. Perfect logic.
L
if god exist he doesnt give a shit about you
Similar threads
Users who are viewing this thread
