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falklands\malvinas war ( powerful video )

nausea

nausea

Fesikh
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this is the best video with music I have found


[video=youtube]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgmqEDlKlA0[/video]


Every comment about this conflict is appreciated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_War

@commander_zoidberg

do you think arg could have won the war , at least at a tactical level?
 
My feelings have always been that the argies seemed to think that the Brits would not be able to respond militarily to their seizure of the Islands. The RAF only had a single aircraft which could even reach the South Atlantic. The Argies had air superiority and seemed to have counted on control of the seas around the Falklands and had already landed troops and dug in.

After the invasion the heads of the army and RAF told Margret Thatcher at cabinet that there were no options to retake the Islands. It was the first sea lord Sir Henry Leach who walked in and told them the Navy could do it even though the government had just agreed to drop the axe on the navy big time. I think that they took a massive gamble by attempting it though. The biggest obstacle of all was the weather. If you look at the Falklands on a map they are not much further north than the Antarctic circle, the seas in the South Atlantic in winter are awful. They had an increasingly shortening window to act. Ships which the Royal Navy needed were in mothballs. A lot of what they were going to fight the conflict with was untested. It all had to be thrown together in 2 weeks and sent. If it was ready or not.

At the time the British armed forces were mainly dealing with the peacekeeping mission in Northern Ireland and preparing to fight the third world war against the Soviet Union. The argentine armed forces were a reasonably professional outfit that had benefited from a lot of western military equipment. Some of the same arms manufacturers who supplied equipment to the Brits had also supplied stuff to the argies. It caused a whole series of frantic back room preparations and fact finding that needed to be done in a matter of weeks.

I've always been of the opinion it was their war to loose.

The sinking of the Belgrano for example. The Argentine Navy had embarked on this operation but seemed to have no preparedness for anti submarine warfare despite the fact they should have known the Brits would employ them. They then scampered back to port making the Royal Navy's job even easier. Then after the black buck raid the argies pulled their airforces posture to defend the mainland. Which meant that their jets traveling from the mainland only had 10-15 minutes loiter time over the battlefield. Their pilots despite being skilled were extremely nervous and loosed off their exocet missiles at the first targets on their radar instead of trying to sink the carriers.

Likewise on East Falkland the ground forces there basically just sat behind fortifications on East Falkland around Port Stanley. I actually worked with a guy who served in the army and was on the Falklands just a little after the war. He says Port Stanley is surrounded by mountains and he could never understood why they dug in there and waited. Again. A complete lack of aggressiveness on the part of the officer corps. They literally surrounded themselves and waited for a highly competent professional army with a large number of elite troops to encircle and smash them instead of trying to meet them on more favorable battlefield nearer the landing grounds.

The argies despite being reasonably professional seemed to lack the kind of aggressiveness needed to win, they had even sent conscript soldiers to fight in a war without even bothering to supply them with enough winter clothes. They also made a series of fatal tactical mistakes. Mistakes are inherent to war fighting. The Brits made a few. The argies made more. Wars are won and lost on that.

The conflict probably wouldn't have happened if the Navy had kept the HMS Ark Royal in service. The Ark Royal probably could have destroyed the argentine air force outright in about 5-6 days. The Royal Navy would have had total air dominance over the Falklands and Argentina.
 
This was the most retarded war of all time : "who have inhabited the islands since the early 19th century, are predominantly descendants of British settlers, and favour British sovereignty. "

Argentina was just greedy af
 
commander_zoidberg said:
My feelings have always been that the argies seemed to think that the Brits would not be able to respond militarily to their seizure of the Islands. The RAF only had a single aircraft which could even reach the South Atlantic. The Argies had air superiority and seemed to have counted on control of the seas around the Falklands and had already landed troops and dug in.

After the invasion the heads of the army and RAF told Margret Thatcher at cabinet that there were no options to retake the Islands. It was the first sea lord Sir Henry Leach who walked in and told them the Navy could do it even though the government had just agreed to drop the axe on the navy big time. I think that they took a massive gamble by attempting it though. The biggest obstacle of all was the weather. If you look at the Falklands on a map they are not much further north than the Antarctic circle, the seas in the South Atlantic in winter are awful. They had an increasingly shortening window to act. Ships which the Royal Navy needed were in mothballs. A lot of what they were going to fight the conflict with was untested. It all had to be thrown together in 2 weeks and sent. If it was ready or not.

At the time the British armed forces were mainly dealing with the peacekeeping mission in Northern Ireland and preparing to fight the third world war against the Soviet Union. The argentine armed forces were a reasonably professional outfit that had benefited from a lot of western military equipment. Some of the same arms manufacturers who supplied equipment to the Brits had also supplied stuff to the argies. It caused a whole series of frantic back room preparations and fact finding that needed to be done in a matter of weeks.

I've always been of the opinion it was their war to loose.

The sinking of the Belgrano for example. The Argentine Navy had embarked on this operation but seemed to have no preparedness for anti submarine warfare despite the fact they should have known the Brits would employ them. They then scampered back to port making the Royal Navy's job even easier. Then after the black buck raid the argies pulled their airforces posture to defend the mainland. Which meant that their jets traveling from the mainland only had 10-15 minutes loiter time over the battlefield. Their pilots despite being skilled were extremely nervous and loosed off their exocet missiles at the first targets on their radar instead of trying to sink the carriers.

Likewise on East Falkland the ground forces there basically just sat behind fortifications on East Falkland around Port Stanley. I actually worked with a guy who served in the army and was on the Falklands just a little after the war. He says Port Stanley is surrounded by mountains and he could never understood why they dug in there and waited. Again. A complete lack of aggressiveness on the part of the officer corps. They literally surrounded themselves and waited for a highly competent professional army with a large number of elite troops to encircle and smash them instead of trying to meet them on more favorable battlefield nearer the landing grounds.

The argies despite being reasonably professional seemed to lack the kind of aggressiveness needed to win, they had even sent conscript soldiers to fight in a war without even bothering to supply them with enough winter clothes. They also made a series of fatal tactical mistakes. Mistakes are inherent to war fighting. The Brits made a few. The argies made more. Wars are won and lost on that.

The conflict probably wouldn't have happened if the Navy had kept the HMS Ark Royal in service. The Ark Royal probably could have destroyed the argentine air force outright in about 5-6 days. The Royal Navy would have had total air dominance over the Falklands and Argentina.

yes, I have seen almost all videos\resources I could find on internet and specialized journals

I have a couple of questions:

1 do you think the potential sinking of one carrier by the argentinians would have forced the uk task force to retreat ?

2 do you think that if the arg delayed the invasion until they received the full french furniture of exocets they could have more chances to win?

3 is it true that uk was on the verge of disabling most of its fleet right before the war?


Facade said:
This was the most retarded war of all time : "who have inhabited the islands since the early 19th century, are predominantly descendants of British settlers, and favour British sovereignty. "

Argentina was just greedy af

arg was under fascism at that time bro
 
[video=youtube]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUTRnbK0J3A[/video]
[video=youtube]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9S0BLMmRnY[/video]
 
nausea said:
yes, I have seen almost all videos\resources I could find on internet and specialized journals
I have a couple of questions:
1 do you think the potential sinking of one carrier by the argentinians would have forced the uk task force to retreat ?
2 do you think that if the arg delayed the invasion until they received the full french furniture of exocets they could have more chances to win?
3 is it true that uk was on the verge of disabling most of its fleet right before the war?

1. Most likely. The taskforce was desperately short of air cover as it was. The loss of a carrier would have forced the end of combat operations. The US had promised a carrier to supplement the taskforce if Hermes or Invincible were lost but it takes 3 months to mobilise a carrier group. They were literally in the last week or two of suitable weather. My guess is the taskforce would have sailed back to Portsmouth and waited till the spring. However by that time it would have committed the UK to a considerably more drawn out campaign assuming that the government hadn't fallen. I actually wonder if the second campaign wouldn't have involved a campaign against mainland Argentina and the removal of its government given the likely casualties that the Navy would have sustained doing that.

2. I think it might have increased their chances. Although if the British knew they had a full furnishment of exocets i wonder if the Navy might have delayed until summer and mounted a campaign against Argentina's airforce on the mainland to destroy their stockpiles of weapons. Certainly there was an SAS mission planned to infiltrate what they believed to be the stockpile of exocets but it never happened because the taskforce had already landed.

3. Yes. The armed forces had been getting cut for years. The 1970's were a very hard decade. Britain in the 70's could be described by the title of a book called "When the lights went out". The conservative government of Edward Heath was destroyed by the coal mining union who went on strike. Coal stocks quickly diminished and the government was forced to restrict non critical electricity to 3 days a week. This was also at the time that the world was reeling from the oil crisis. In 1974 there was a minority labour government who won a slim majority in a second election in the autumn. That calmed the trade unions down somewhat, but in 1978 there was the "winter of discontent". In Liverpool even the grave diggers went on strike. Unemployment was around 1 million, inflation was exceeding 10%. My opinion on the matter is that a lot of the trade unionists were under Soviet control and were subverting the movement to try and drive the UK into chaos. In 1979 Margret Thatcher won a majority. Her government embarked on monetarist economic policies to drive inflation down and the UK was gripped by a severe recession. Unemployment climbed to 2 million. Inflation reached 22%. Cities all over the country erupted in rioting. Interest rates were also incredibly high at this point so the government could not borrow as easily as it can now to offset deficits. The armed forces were a typical whipping boy when it came to cuts. It had been since the second world war. The cuts to the Navy had been a sore point. HMS Endurance in the South Atlantic. The only Royal Navy ship there had been one of the ships cut. It was on its last tour when the Falklands were invaded.

Our politicians learned nothing from repeatedly cutting the Navy. They retired HMS Eagle and the Ark Royal which may well have prevented the war from ever happening. Back in 1972 the Ark Royal had to make a dash across the Atlantic to British Honduras (now Belize) when they received credible intelligence that Guatemala was planning to invade. I'm unsure as to the constitutional status of Belize at the time but the British army were tasked with defending the country but were in no way capable of fending off an attack for more than a few days. The appearance of Ark Royal and Buccaneer jets flying over the country brought the Guatemalans to their senses and stopped them from invading. The governor of Belize Mike Possnet actually claimed that sending Ark Royal was a needless provocation and later apologised after the invasion of the Falklands stating one should never underestimate the insanity of Latin American politics.

nausea said:
Facade said:
This was the most retarded war of all time : "who have inhabited the islands since the early 19th century, are predominantly descendants of British settlers, and favour British sovereignty. "
Argentina was just greedy af
arg was under fascism at that time bro

It wasn't really about the fascist government. They were unpopular and thought it would raise their popularity and thought that backing the British government into having a crack at them or falling was a good idea. Literally the Islanders had voted a few years before by more than 95% to remain British and other British governments in the past had offered joint sovereignty, by invading they destroyed any chance of getting the Islands back. It is really just a symptom of the insanity of Latin American politics. Many of us coming from the western world can't fathom how insane some parts of the world like the orient, Latin America or the Middle east are. Argentina should be one of the worlds wealthiest countries and yet they have defaulted on their national debt twice and their military has basically ceased to function. Their president is a hormonal lunatic cunt. The governor of Tierra del Fuego organised biker gangs and rent a mobs to attack the top gear crew and chase them out of Argentina because of "supposedly" a number plate on Jeremy Clarksons car and then after they barely escaped and were given 48 hours to leave Argentina and Argies told the Chileans to deport them back over the border to arrest them all for making an illegal entry. Luckily Top Gear was very popular in Chile and the Chileans told them to go fuck themselves.
 
commander_zoidberg said:
1. Most likely. The taskforce was desperately short of air cover as it was. The loss of a carrier would have forced the end of combat operations.

they were VERY CLOSE to lose one carrier ! they had to sacrifice one vessel in a desperate try to avoid such disaster !

arg pilots were very very good


commander_zoidberg said:
if the British knew

their intelligence failed for it underestimated the air-warfare capacity of the argies ( in flight refueling )


commander_zoidberg said:
It wasn't really about the fascist government.

yes they tried to regain popularity by tapping into the old malvinas\falks issue
 
this is what I mean

http://www.atlantic-conveyor.co.uk/action-of-25th-may/hermes-escapes-and-conveyor-is-hit
 
@commander_zoidberg

see? they sacrificated the conveyor to save the carrier
 

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