Determinism is dumb.

[based_meme]

You're telling me that the initial conditions of the big bang resulted in a chain of events that led me to turn right, instead of left, and pick vanilla, instead of chocolate? What the fuck? How is this not the pretentious man's astrology?

I think some people cling to determinism, because they don't like accepting the concept of free will (or some working version of it), for whatever reason.

 

[jablevland]

It is dumb but it has the stronger argument as oppose to free will

 

[Liu KANG]

It is dumb but it has the stronger argument as oppose to free will

 

[jablevland]

Like your probably here because of your genetics if you were a chad d1 athlete you wouldn’t be here

 

[erenyeager]

You're telling me that the initial conditions of the big bang resulted in a chain of events that led me to turn right, instead of left, and pick vanilla, instead of chocolate? What the fuck? How is this not the pretentious man's astrology?

I think some people cling to determinism, because they don't like accepting the concept of free will (or some working version of it), for whatever reason.

I’m pretty sure we are in a simulation and some simuigger can’t do his coding right

 

[Liu KANG]

You're telling me that the initial conditions of the big bang resulted in a chain of events that led me to turn right, instead of left, and pick vanilla, instead of chocolate? What the fuck? How is this not the pretentious man's astrology?

That’s what happened, I was there

 

[erenyeager]

That’s what happened, I was there

Nah, some deitiyigger decided to play games on his creation and decided to make a Based Meme: alternative where yer the incel and you LIVE THIS life instead of the prime Chad life you were denied

 

[MRHK_57]

It's almost how science works, so it got some merit to it.

 

[Liu KANG]

Nah, some deitiyigger decided to play games on his creation and decided to make a Based Meme: alternative where yer the incel and you LIVE THIS life instead of the prime Chad life you were denied

Whatever you say my Child

 

[VideoGameCoper]

While determinism to the point you think every action is determined is ridiculous, determinism is right that the general trajectory of your life is determined by your genetics and environment early on.

 

[erenyeager]

Whatever you say my Child

Incorrect

 

[erenyeager]

While determinism to the point you think every action is determined is ridiculous, determinism is right that the general trajectory of your life is determined by your genetics and environment early on.

Correct

 

[VideoGameCoper]

Correct

Based

 

[erenyeager]

Based

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

Nah, some deitiyigger decided to play games on his creation and decided to make a Based Meme: alternative where yer the incel and you LIVE THIS life instead of the prime Chad life you were denied

When I die and become a spirit, I will kill God, buddy boyos. I'll avenge us all

 

[erenyeager]

When I die and become a spirit, I will kill God, buddy boyos. I'll avenge us all

Incorrect

 

[Aegon Targaryen]

Incorrect

 

[erenyeager]

View attachment 1284357

Incorrect

 

[based_meme]

It's almost how science works, so it got some merit to it.

Don't be asinine. You know I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about this idea of a fixed universe that determines everything up to and including the mundane.

 

[I want to believe]

Determinism means that even your actions and choices depend on your previous actions and choices, plus your genes (how your organism and your psyche work and react, etc.)

 

[Doesitmatter?]

Your brain is also the product of genetics and environment, which you can't control.Thus Every thought/action you have/do is influenced 100% by your genetics

 

[To koniec]

Determinism means that even your actions and choices depend on your previous actions and choices, plus your genes (how your organism and your psyche work and react, etc.)

 

[To koniec]

Tho at same time it's confusing concept. While never had any trobules with understanding it i had with theory that past doesn't exist anymore is somehow correct ( even if it's bullshit for me cause cause and effect not always appear immidietialy )

 

[proudweeb]

I agree with you on determinism, mainly due to the inherent randomness of quantum mechanics. Deterministic phenomena only exist at a macro scale as many of these fluctuations average out. However, quantum uncertainty still has its effect, for example we can see it in the unpredictability of the weather.

 

[GeckoBus]

It is dumb but it has the stronger argument as oppose to free will

1. If everything is just an effect of physics, one effect of physics can not be more true or false than another. A waterfall is not more true or false than a storm, or banana.
2. Thoughts, evaluations and propositions are also just effects of physics.
3. Conclusion: Evaluations (effects) and propositions (effects) are not more true or false than other evaluations (effects) and propositions (effects)

Conclusion: knowledge is impossible on the basis of materialistic determinism. Making an argument against free will presupposes free will.

 

[based_meme]

People are bringing up genetic determinism, which is how the set of possible life trajectories are determined by things that limited by your genes, and conflating the two. Just to be clear to all, I'm talking about metaphysical determinism, which claims that with a master function or equation of the universe you can plug in different numbers and know what porn video some truecel 1000 years from now will fap to. That's the part that's complete dogshit retarded.

 

[Cope_Time]

What makes you think dumb, the idea that every action has a originated from something and shaped by it is common sense

 

[erenyeager]

People are bringing up genetic determinism, which is how the set of possible life trajectories are determined by things that limited by your genes, and conflating the two. Just to be clear to all, I'm talking about metaphysical determinism, which claims that with a master function or equation of the universe you can plug in different numbers and know what porn video some truecel 1000 years from now will fap to. That's the part that's complete dogshit retarded.

I’m sorry but the universe since conception has beckoned me to live a horrible life within earth a planet filled with selfish evil animals that don’t give a damn if you are something with male sex organs

 

[Skelly]

what if its like a WWE fight where the main points are scripted but what happens in between is left up to the fighter?

 

[based_meme]

what if its like a WWE fight where the main points are scripted but what happens in between is left up to the fighter?

That's called compatibilism.

 

[Emba]

You seem very determined to disprove determinism.

 

[Orzmund]

Just to be clear to all, I'm talking about metaphysical determinism, which claims that with a master function or equation of the universe you can plug in different numbers and know what porn video some truecel 1000 years from now will fap to.

The will is free only within the span of its cause, process, and cessation. Can the sole transcendent essence of all presage its immediate course throughout eternity? Probably not because it isn't sentient to begin with.

 

[ResidentHell]

Your brain is also the product of genetics and environment, which you can't control.Thus Every thought/action you have/do is influenced 100% by your genetics

 

[bbwqs_v]

You're telling me that the initial conditions of the big bang resulted in a chain of events that led me to turn right, instead of left, and pick vanilla, instead of chocolate? What the fuck? How is this not the pretentious man's astrology?

I think some people cling to determinism, because they don't like accepting the concept of free will (or some working version of it), for whatever reason.

to answer your question on free will for trivial matters, watch this video at 11:58. the whole video is very informative and should convince you that there is no free will. if you have any doubts or questions while watching, you should share them here.

 

[based_meme]

to answer your question on free will for trivial matters, watch this video at 11:58. the whole video is very informative and should convince you that there is no free will. if you have any doubts or questions while watching, you should share them here.

I know Sapolsky's views and I'm more than familiar with the arguments on all sides. He's a hard determinist and physicalist. Compatibilism alone deals with his position.

 

[bbwqs_v]

I know Sapolsky's views and I'm more than familiar with the arguments on all sides. He's a hard determinist and physicalist. Compatibilism alone deals with his position.

i dont remember if he ever mentioned he was a determinist. in that video, he explains the difference. he brings up that a lack of free will is not the same as determinism. people argue that due to quantum randomness or the wave-particle duality or heisenberg uncertainty principle, these random variables mean that the future is non-deterministic. but there is still no free will as you cannot control random variables.

i never quite understood compatabilism as cosmic skeptic made a video about it and i remember watching it a long time ago. he defined free will as the ability to have done otherwise. and he said something like the compatabilism view doesnt make sense coz it's two opposing ideas, and it's like a semantics issue, but i never really looked into it that much

 

[based_meme]

i dont remember if he ever mentioned he was a determinist. in that video, he explains the difference. he brings up that a lack of free will is not the same as determinism. people argue that due to quantum randomness or the wave-particle duality or heisenberg uncertainty principle, these random variables mean that the future is non-deterministic. but there is still no free will as you cannot control random variables.

He doesn't need to state that he's a determinist. In rejecting free will from a materialist perspective, he's already on the other side of the philosophical coin by default as a starting position. Plus, he literally wrote a book called "Determined" JFL. He argues a straw man against free will in this video. He brings up quantum indeterminacy and randomness to argue against the concept, but most conceptions of free will don't make the claim that "randomness is necessary for free will."

Metaphysical ("libertarian" - the philosophical term) free will posits that agents (us) are able to exercise our will such that we generate causal chains with our choices. This means that our choices are not causally dependent in an existing causal chain. If they were, they wouldn't be free, nor would they be a choice in any real sense, hence the claim, "the illusion of free will."

i never quite understood compatabilism as cosmic skeptic made a video about it and i remember watching it a long time ago. he defined free will as the ability to have done otherwise. and he said something like the compatabilism view doesnt make sense coz it's two opposing ideas, and it's like a semantics issue, but i never really looked into it that much

Compatibilism is simply the position that causal determinism doesn't limit our conscious will in our rational agency. Whether or not this will is "free" in any cosmological, mechanistic sense is an ongoing debate.

You can read a bit about it here.

Compatibilism: Philosophy’s Favorite Answer to the Free Will Debate | Philosophy Break

Popular claims that free will is an illusion tend to miss that, within philosophy, the debate hinges not on whether determinism is true, but on whether determinism and free will are compatible — and most philosophers working today think they are.

philosophybreak.com

 

[bbwqs_v]

He doesn't need to state that he's a determinist. In rejecting free will from a materialist perspective, he's already on the other side of the philosophical coin by default as a starting position. Plus, he literally wrote a book called "Determined" JFL. He argues a straw man against free will in this video. He brings up quantum indeterminacy and randomness to argue against the concept, but most conceptions of free will don't make the claim that "randomness is necessary for free will."

Metaphysical ("libertarian" - the philosophical term) free will posits that agents (us) are able to exercise our will such that we generate causal chains with our choices. This means that our choices are not causally dependent in an existing causal chain. If they were, they wouldn't be free, nor would they be a choice in any real sense, hence the claim, "the illusion of free will."


Compatibilism is simply the position that causal determinism doesn't limit our conscious will in our rational agency. Whether or not this will is "free" in any cosmological, mechanistic sense is an ongoing debate.

You can read a bit about it here.

Compatibilism: Philosophy’s Favorite Answer to the Free Will Debate | Philosophy Break

Popular claims that free will is an illusion tend to miss that, within philosophy, the debate hinges not on whether determinism is true, but on whether determinism and free will are compatible — and most philosophers working today think they are.

philosophybreak.com

i read the article, I find it hard to accept compatibilism. I see now how they define free will, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to me. Free will seems like a binary yes or no thing. I will have to read more to understand better.

hain of events that led me to turn right, instead of left, and pick vanilla, instead of chocolate?

millenia of evolution, the culture you were brought up in, advertisements, everything could have played a role in shaping your taste preferences or how you felt that day. there's many unknown factors that cause us to act in ways without knowing why we chose a certain flavour or walked in one direction rather than the other. wouldnt' you agree that this is rational?

a certain subpopulation may have been exposed to vanilla as it was an abundant food resource in their region, and over many generations developed taste buds that have a stronger sensory receptors towards vanilla as it could have been beneficial for survival, or purely just random mutations that resulted in one small change in a random biochemical pathway that made it so that vanilla is a preferred flavour. advertisements can prime people towards certain foods too as our brains light up and a cascade of reactions take place.

 

[To koniec]

1. If everything is just an effect of physics, one effect of physics can not be more true or false than another. A waterfall is not more true or false than a storm, or banana.
2. Thoughts, evaluations and propositions are also just effects of physics.
3. Conclusion: Evaluations (effects) and propositions (effects) are not more true or false than other evaluations (effects) and propositions (effects)

Conclusion: knowledge is impossible on the basis of materialistic determinism. Making an argument against free will presupposes free will.

What if there is no cause at all ?

Like acasuality ?

 

[GeckoBus]

What if there is no cause at all ?

Like acasuality ?

idk dude im not that smart, I just parroted filtered down shit from other people. The argument I quoted relies on the premise of naturalism, that everything that exists is just matter in motion. Idk you seem smart. Figure it out I guess. It depends on your theory of knowledge (epistemology), your ethical position and your metaphysics. These three form the basis for all worldviews.

If your epistemology is empiricism, that all knowledge comes from observatoin, you have no basis for believing in causality, since we dont observe it. This would in turn then undermine a claim like that everything is just a chain of causality going back to something like the big bang.

If nothing has a cause, then we get to basic problems of philosophy like quesitons like "why is there something rather than nothing" etc. Ultimately it probably comes down to having to have a cause out of necessity and then you have to explain how you know that or why that is. I already said that based on empiricism alone, you wouldnt really be able to explain causality so idk. Listen, im not that smart, peopel here just suck my dick all the time for no reason.

 

[SmhChan]

People are bringing up genetic determinism, which is how the set of possible life trajectories are determined by things that limited by your genes, and conflating the two. Just to be clear to all, I'm talking about metaphysical determinism, which claims that with a master function or equation of the universe you can plug in different numbers and know what porn video some truecel 1000 years from now will fap to. That's the part that's complete dogshit retarded.

Let's say you were playing 1v1 in CSGO/CS2 on a remote server with your friend with same ping. If you both headshot each other at the same time, can you accurately tell who'd be rewarded by the server? Maybe, the reason we have the illusion of free will is because we don't or can't take into account all the variables in this system that determine the outcomes of such cases. But if you changed the value of one variable drastically, the difference in ping, that would negate all the other variables most of the time and you'd accurately predict.

We can't tell what kind of porn one particular individual would watch in the future, but we can accurately tell without a fault most of the time if a beggar would take offered money because of the very same reason.