Divergent_Integral
Spastic ricecel, heightmogged by 99.74% of men
★★★★
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2020
- Posts
- 851
So I thought I'd give IT a chance and enter their lair, calmly telling them my side of the story, as a comment under a piece in which the author engaged in victim-blaming against incels. (The piece has since been removed.) But as most of you won't be surprised to learn, things got ugly with the very first reply. The second reply was actually a very reasonable one, by the OP himself. I typed a reply to that reply, but when I wanted to press the post button, I saw that the message was gone. As was the OP himself, deleted either by himself or by others!
Now I know I should avoid that place like the plague, and that no rational discussion nor any meeting of the minds is to be had there.
Here's the reply I had typed, in case anyone's interested.
[UWSL][UWSL]This is actually a fair reply (unlike the one above yours). That being said: don't you think that the fact that most incels don't see any examples of other incels escaping from their incel situations sort of proves the difficulty of said escape? Granted, difficulty isn't the same as impossibility; but in many cases, it is practically problematic to distinguish between those two. If you have only the empirical evidence to go by, of yourself and others being unable to escape inceldom, the conclusion of its practical (if not theoretical) impossibility is close at hand. For example: a 5'1" guy may theoretically become a professional basketball star, in the sense that it isn't against the laws of physics per se. But given the dearth of examples of such men, I don't think it's that unreasonable a conclusion that for most 5'1" men such a career is practically impossible. [/UWSL][/UWSL]
[UWSL][UWSL]I agree with you that most people are not literally unlovable. Even incels often have their softer, gentler side, if you coax them to show it. (Categorically calling them "violent scumbags" isn't going to help, though.) The thing is that love isn't the same as sexual attraction, the former being a much broader concept than the latter. A man may very well be able to hold the esteem and love of his mother or his elderly neighbor, while failing to attract any sort of female sexual attraction due to circumstances largely outside his control. And sexual attraction, unfortunately for incels, is kind of a prerequisite for things like marriage and bringing children into the world. Whether this lack of attraction is a bad thing or not, depends on one's view of what constitutes the good life. I think for most people the good life involves some sort of sexual relationship with others, and for many this would ideally be institutionalized and formalized as marriage or cohabitation. Obviously I myself think this is a reasonable view, and that being unable to attain this sort of life is a legitimate cause for grief.[/UWSL][/UWSL]
[UWSL][UWSL] This grief may manifest itself in some (such as myself) as sadness, in others as anger or even as radicalization. While I won't ask you or anyone else to condone radicalization and its attendant ills (I myself don't), I'd like to plead for some amount of empathy and understanding from the public at large. Just a hint of that would constitute a major step towards solving the problems many incels face. But alas, most people seem unwilling or unable to distinguish between those two modes of engaging with incels. Many well-intentioned people seem to be afraid, is my hypothesis, that trying to understand and empathize with incels would imply their silent approval of all negative acts committed by incels. Which isn't true at all.[/UWSL][/UWSL]
Now I know I should avoid that place like the plague, and that no rational discussion nor any meeting of the minds is to be had there.
Here's the reply I had typed, in case anyone's interested.
[UWSL][UWSL]This is actually a fair reply (unlike the one above yours). That being said: don't you think that the fact that most incels don't see any examples of other incels escaping from their incel situations sort of proves the difficulty of said escape? Granted, difficulty isn't the same as impossibility; but in many cases, it is practically problematic to distinguish between those two. If you have only the empirical evidence to go by, of yourself and others being unable to escape inceldom, the conclusion of its practical (if not theoretical) impossibility is close at hand. For example: a 5'1" guy may theoretically become a professional basketball star, in the sense that it isn't against the laws of physics per se. But given the dearth of examples of such men, I don't think it's that unreasonable a conclusion that for most 5'1" men such a career is practically impossible. [/UWSL][/UWSL]
[UWSL][UWSL]I agree with you that most people are not literally unlovable. Even incels often have their softer, gentler side, if you coax them to show it. (Categorically calling them "violent scumbags" isn't going to help, though.) The thing is that love isn't the same as sexual attraction, the former being a much broader concept than the latter. A man may very well be able to hold the esteem and love of his mother or his elderly neighbor, while failing to attract any sort of female sexual attraction due to circumstances largely outside his control. And sexual attraction, unfortunately for incels, is kind of a prerequisite for things like marriage and bringing children into the world. Whether this lack of attraction is a bad thing or not, depends on one's view of what constitutes the good life. I think for most people the good life involves some sort of sexual relationship with others, and for many this would ideally be institutionalized and formalized as marriage or cohabitation. Obviously I myself think this is a reasonable view, and that being unable to attain this sort of life is a legitimate cause for grief.[/UWSL][/UWSL]
[UWSL][UWSL] This grief may manifest itself in some (such as myself) as sadness, in others as anger or even as radicalization. While I won't ask you or anyone else to condone radicalization and its attendant ills (I myself don't), I'd like to plead for some amount of empathy and understanding from the public at large. Just a hint of that would constitute a major step towards solving the problems many incels face. But alas, most people seem unwilling or unable to distinguish between those two modes of engaging with incels. Many well-intentioned people seem to be afraid, is my hypothesis, that trying to understand and empathize with incels would imply their silent approval of all negative acts committed by incels. Which isn't true at all.[/UWSL][/UWSL]