Blackpill Being facially ugly is clearly worse than being short, but unfortunately this can only be proved empirically and not scientifically

[Mainländer]

Because height is a measurable, defined number and ugliness is somewhat relative.

There are simply too many variables in someone's face, as well as in the personal interpretations of other people of its attractiveness (even though some patterns are clear) for one to objectively, scientifically atribute a number to represent the person's facial attractiveness.

So what ends up happening is we having lots of scientific proof that being short hinders one's romantic prospects, but not much scientific proof (if any) that having an ugly face is even worse.

 

[FuckingDed]

Both can be as bad

 

[Mainländer]

Both can be as bad

I think the only way to refute it would be, what would be worse, being as short as you can be outside of dwarfism (which is a condition) or being as ugly as you can be outside of medical conditions or non-genetic factors (acid faced, burn victim, etc)?

I'd say the second, pretty clear.

 

[RageAgainstTDL]

No. The reason it is not directly comparable is because the divide between ugliness and prettiness (ie. facial looks) is an infinite continuum between the positive and the negative, while height has a ceiling to how positive it can be.

There is no such thing as being "too facially beautiful". The most facially beautiful men/women get paid millions for their looks.

By contrast, there is such a thing as "too tall". Most dating studies put 5'11"-6'4" as the ideal range for height. Height above that is not very helpful unless you are talking about being in the NBA.

The primary physical attributes can thus be judged like this, where to the left is worse and to the right is better:

infinitely negative <-- FACE --> infinitely positive
infinitely negative <-- HEIGHT --> limited positive
limited negative <-- RACE --> limited positive

Race has a limited positive and negative effect, in that you can only be "so white" or "so curry" and it can only affect you to a discrete amount. Height has the same ceiling at the top end but an infinitely low bottom (the shorter you are the worse it is until you literally cease to exist). Face has no limits in either direction.

Thus for example, if you are comparing the most beautiful face on earth to the ugliest, yes face will be most important.

But for practical purposes, ie. the general typical range of humanity, we can study the approximate relative values of these things, and when we do, this is what we find:

https://incels.is/threads/scientifi...f-importance-is-race-height-face-money.59098/

 

[NoMoreSlaving]

I think the only way to refute it would be, what would be worse, being as short as you can be outside of dwarfism (which is a condition) or being as ugly as you can be outside of medical conditions or non-genetic factors (acid faced, burn victim, etc)?

I'd say the second, pretty clear.

both are incel

 

[guaucel]

imagine being both

 

[Manletmancer]

Height is the first thing they notice. There's always stories about some cute short guys getting pussy, but it's honestly bullshit unless you're an 8+.

 

[Honeypot]

I think the only way to refute it would be, what would be worse, being as short as you can be outside of dwarfism (which is a condition) or being as ugly as you can be outside of medical conditions or non-genetic factors (acid faced, burn victim, etc)?

I'd say the second, pretty clear.

You can be 5'8 7.5/10 face and catfish in tinder but IRL whatever tallfag that gets up next to you with 6' as height will mog you, you will look like a kid or his son next to him, you can't mog him in any way tbh face is cope compared to height, there are a lot of empirical data backing this.

Have you really been mogged by a shorter guy at least once in your life? face is a thing if you are facing males with the same height.

 

[Mainländer]

No. The reason it is not directly comparable is because the divide between ugliness and prettiness (ie. facial looks) is an infinite continuum between the positive and the negative, while height has a ceiling to how positive it can be.

There is no such thing as being "too facially beautiful". The most facially beautiful men/women get paid millions for their looks.

By contrast, there is such a thing as "too tall". Most dating studies put 5'11"-6'4" as the ideal range for height. Height above that is not very helpful unless you are talking about being in the NBA.

The primary physical attributes can thus be judged like this, where to the left is worse and to the right is better:

infinitely negative <-- FACE --> infinitely positive
infinitely negative <-- HEIGHT --> limited positive
limited negative <-- RACE --> limited positive

Race has a limited positive and negative effect, in that you can only be "so white" or "so curry" and it can only affect you to a discrete amount. Height has the same ceiling at the top end but an infinitely low bottom (the shorter you are the worse it is until you literally cease to exist). Face has no limits in either direction.

Thus for example, if you are comparing the most beautiful face on earth to the ugliest, yes face will be most important.

But for practical purposes, ie. the general typical range of humanity, we can study the approximate relative values of these things, and when we do, this is what we find:

https://incels.is/threads/scientifi...f-importance-is-race-height-face-money.59098/

High IQ post. I had already seen that thread of yours but I admit I didn't read it in full detail, just took a look. I'll read it meticulously now and answer you.

Have you really been mogged by a shorter guy at least once in your life?

Of course I have, in all the meanings of the word really.

The instructor of the gym I went to when I worked out was significantly shorter than me, he must ha been something like 5'7, but he was strong AS FUCK and a fighter, he once invited me to sparring fun but I of course refused as I wouldn't have a chance against someone like that.

I see guys significantly shorter than me with attractive girls all the time as well. A 15 yo manlet dating a white cute JB mogs me to oblivion in my conception of mogging.

 

[Honeypot]

High IQ post. I had already seen that thread of yours but I admit I didn't read it in full detail, just took a look. I'll read it meticulously now and answer you.

Of course I have, in all the meanings of the word really.

The instructor of the gym I went to when I worked out was significantly shorter than me, he must ha been something like 5'7, but he was strong AS FUCK and a fighter, he once invited me to sparring fun but I of course refused as I wouldn't have a chance against someone like that.

I see guys significantly shorter than me with attractive girls all the time as well. A 15 yo manlet dating a white cute JB mogs me to oblivion in my conception of mogging.

He mogs you because he is young and JBs dating young males is not a rare thing

 

[Mainländer]

He mogs you because he is young and JBs dating young males is not a rare thing

Even if he's older. Here in Brazil it's not that rare for guys in their late 20s to date 14-18 girls. Or at least have casual shit with them.

No. The reason it is not directly comparable is because the divide between ugliness and prettiness (ie. facial looks) is an infinite continuum between the positive and the negative, while height has a ceiling to how positive it can be.

There is no such thing as being "too facially beautiful". The most facially beautiful men/women get paid millions for their looks.

By contrast, there is such a thing as "too tall". Most dating studies put 5'11"-6'4" as the ideal range for height. Height above that is not very helpful unless you are talking about being in the NBA.

The primary physical attributes can thus be judged like this, where to the left is worse and to the right is better:

infinitely negative <-- FACE --> infinitely positive
infinitely negative <-- HEIGHT --> limited positive
limited negative <-- RACE --> limited positive

Race has a limited positive and negative effect, in that you can only be "so white" or "so curry" and it can only affect you to a discrete amount. Height has the same ceiling at the top end but an infinitely low bottom (the shorter you are the worse it is until you literally cease to exist). Face has no limits in either direction.

Thus for example, if you are comparing the most beautiful face on earth to the ugliest, yes face will be most important.

But for practical purposes, ie. the general typical range of humanity, we can study the approximate relative values of these things, and when we do, this is what we find:

https://incels.is/threads/scientifi...f-importance-is-race-height-face-money.59098/

Reading it. One thing comes to my mind, I think the fact I'm not blonde and blue-eyed causes me not to be considered fully white and thus not enjoy the same JBW benefits that blonde and blue-eyed guys would enjoy, especially in Brazil where my phenotype (white skin with brown eyes and hair) is relatively common (due to Portuguese, Spanish and Italian being the most common European ancestries) whereas blonde and blue-eyed people are quite rare outside of some specific areas in the southernmost states where big amounts of German and Polish colonization took place (not my area).

 

[SeifEsteem]

Even if he's older. Here in Brazil it's not that rare for guys in their late 20s to date 14-18 girls. Or at least have casual shit with them.

Reading it. One thing comes to my mind, I think the fact I'm not blonde and blue-eyed causes me not to be considered fully white and thus not enjoy the same JBW benefits that blonde and blue-eyed guys would enjoy, especially in Brazil where my phenotype (white skin with brown eyes and hair) is relatively common (due to Portuguese, Spanish and Italian being the most common European ancestries) whereas blonde and blue-eyed people are quite rare outside of some specific areas in the southernmost states where big amounts of German and Polish colonization took place (not my area).

ur not even white u rape arab

 

[Mainländer]

ur not even white u rape arab

I never did the 23andme test but I'd anticipate a result like 95% European and 5% Middle Eastern/North African/Asian.

 

[Deleted member 8]

All I'll say is, I wish ugly people were labeled with something like Napoleon Complex/Short Man Syndrome. That's probably the worst part about manletism, I wrote about it here: https://incels.is/threads/blackpill...eon-complex-it-was-doubly-over-for-you.32101/

 

[SLAVICMorPheus]

personal interpretations of other people of its attractiveness (even though some patterns are clear) for one to objectively, scientifically atribute a number to represent the person's facial .

Other then this part somewhat agree. Height is just a threshold you need to cross. Height is like a finish line in a race. But facial aethetics are like battle
Royale with endless incoming enemy

 

[Incel801]

I can attest being ugly really really sucks..

 

[SeifEsteem]

I never did the 23andme test but I'd anticipate a result like 95% European and 5% Middle Eastern/North African/Asian.

rape bllod arab rap bloode arab

 

[Deleted member 5333]

if you are ugly everyone would hate you. if you have height an frame but ugly they would be afraid of you but still hate you.

 

[Mainländer]

if you are ugly everyone would hate you. if you have height an frame but ugly they would be afraid of you but still hate you.

This is how 100% of fertile women feel about me.

 

[lastchancel]

if your short its over if you are ugly its over
if you are short and ugly it's over over

 

[Insomniac]

Both are a death sentence. No need to compare.

 

[Smallondick]

If I deflate the face putting ice in the face I presentable at least, it was not going to advance much because it would still need to arrive would not be at the chad level that neither need to arrive they come to you, I suspect that I have asperger traits. Worse than ugly face is not having the average penis today that is over 16 cm, without it yes it is finished and the penis there are laughs and you are humiliated!

 

[FlyFace]

if you are short and ugly it's over over

All over red rover tbh

 

[SchrodingersDick]

People will go berserk if anyone figures out how to quantify ugliness. Everybody likes to think that ugliness is subjective and that you can’t be legally ugly.

 

[anon]

I never did the 23andme test but I'd anticipate a result like 95% European and 5% Middle Eastern/North African/Asian.

Forget about percentages and haplomemes. Do you look like an average native central European? If not, you're not white, at least not in the context of the blackpill/racepill.
A 1/4 black guy can look whiter than a 95% European guy.

 

[Deleted member 8499]

being ugly is obviously worse than being short.

That is because being short causes others to see you as inferior.
Being ugly makes people not only see you as inferior but also hideous and disgusting. If you are ugly people don't even want to look at your face.

 

[Mik_TFL]

Of course you can measure facial attractiveness and assign it a number, it just requires the right math(e.g. using support vector systems):
1.-First you get a significant enough sample of data, (say, the owners of tinder could do this) that is, a lot of photos of faces ranked by women
2.-You use face detection to measure the Pose relative to the camera
3.-Apply a transformation to normalize all photos, as well as color correction/ homogenization if possible (so that all faces are at the same angles and have the same size)
4.-Use face detection again to measure everything you can come up with, distances, number of imperfections, tones, shadows, etc...
5.- Average all the good rated ones and all the bad rated ones, but only take data-pieces where the variance is low
6.- Now you have 2 vectors that describe ugly/attractive people, construct a "line" (this will have many dimensions) between those
7.- To measure any new sample just get the measurements and calculate the point closest in that line. Then check how far that point is to the ugly/attractive vectors, using a ratio will give a scalar value. For example you could also calculate the distance from you measuring vector to the middle point and then divide it by the total distance between both vectors.

 

[anon]

Both are very important. A 5'7" Chadlite-faced guy would turn off most women simply because of his height, but he'd probably do better than an average-looking 5'10" normie because 3" is not a huge difference, especially under the 6'0" range. At 6'2"+ things change a little bit. This same 5'7" guy would probably lose most of the time.
We don't have a formula, but both factors matter in their own way to a certain extent.

What pisses me off is when tallfags completely underestimate or even deny the importance of height and manlets overplay it.
I'm quite neutral on the subject because I'm average height where I live. I'm sure that if I were 4" taller I'd claim height doesn't matter and I'd do the opposite if I were 5'8".

 

[Mainländer]

Forget about percentages and haplomemes. Do you look like an average native central European? If not, you're not white, at least not in the context of the blackpill/racepill.
A 1/4 black guy can look whiter than a 95% European guy.

I look exactly like someone from Southern European Latin countries such as Portugal, Spain, France or Italy.

 

[anon]

I look exactly like someone from Southern European Latin countries such as Portugal, Spain, France or Italy.

Then you'd be fine in those places, race wise, of course. You'd fit in and pass as a native. I assume you're a bit swarthy for western/northern European and North American white standards so you might feel the affect of the racepill a little in those places, but nothing too drastic.

Not all Europeans are the same, we all know this. There's different subraces in Europe and some are "whiter" than others and some aren't seen as white at all on average. Of course, all that really matters is how you look. If you look 100% undoubtedly white, you're white and don't have to worry about the racepill.

I myself am a native European (coastal Croatia.) I look quite swarthy for central and northern European standards, but I look European. I can't quite describe it, I just look European.
My phenotype doesn't affect me at all in my country, but it probably would affect me further north.

You look southern European in Brazil which means the racepill doesn't really affect you. I don't know what phenotype brazilian foids prefer, though so I could be wrong. Where I live women don't have a preference for hair and skin color as long as it's native-looking.

 

[Deleted member 677]

this can only be proved empirically and not scientifically

 

[Mainländer]

You look southern European in Brazil which means the racepill doesn't really affect you. I don't know what phenotype brazilian foids prefer, though so I could be wrong.

I look local. Plenty of Portuguese and Italian ancestry in my area. I don't lose points but don't gain any either. Only light eyes and hair gain points here.

View attachment 71777

What's the problem with what I said?

 

[RREEEEEEEEE]

Of course, anyone arguing this is coping hard and don't want to accept that they have an ugly face.

 

[wizardcel]

I agree 100%. Being ugly is a huge roadblock in your life. It hinders your ability to find love, make friends and even get a good job. There have been many cases when job applicants were turned down because of their ugliness.