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Story Alt history Map Europe September 29, 1942 Armistice of Linz signed

Horatio Alger

Horatio Alger

They saw deformity, I found beauty
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I already mapped out the rough basics of the lore for this alr history map, but I'll write that out in a future post since 1. editing maps on a phone is time consuming and resets every time you exit the app 2. switching tabs online for research is a bitch on a mobile phone 3. I can type it out much faster and load detailed maps much faster on a PC (which I don't have rn)

I was wondering if some knowledgeable history buffs/stormfrontcels with intimate knowledge of German territorial aims + foreign policy goals of minor powers can help me out

@DarkStar @Castaway @pedrolopezwasright
 
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ah yes hoi4 low quality edition
I never played hoi4, I just like that map since it's impossible to edit borders approximating the territorial gains of Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, the Serbian Occupied Gov, and Nazi Germany on other mapmaking tools
 
I was wondering if some knowledgeable history buffs/stormfrontcels with intimate knowledge of German territorial aims + foreign policy goals of minor powers can help me out
i'm pretty good at WW2 history, if you have anything specific ask me
 
i'm pretty good at WW2 history, if you have anything specific ask me
What about foreign policy aims of Turkey, + conflicting territorial aims/conflicts over the transition to civilian government for the Eastern Reichskommissariats? Would occupied Belgium be transferred to a civilian government and annexed immediately after decisive victory at the Eastern front?

Would zone interdite become part of Belgium, or immediately annexed into a separate German Gaue?
 
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I already mapped out the rough basics of the lore for this alr history map, but I'll write that out in a future post since 1. editing maps on a phone is time consuming and resets every time you exit the app 2. switching tabs online for research is a bitch on a mobile phone 3. I can type it out much faster and load detailed maps much faster on a PC (which I don't have rn)

I was wondering if some knowledgeable history buffs/stormfrontcels with intimate knowledge of German territorial aims + foreign policy goals of minor powers can help me out

@DarkStar @Castaway @pedrolopezwasright
The good guys lost WW2 irl
 
What about foreign policy aims of Turkey
Turkey much like Spain was recovering from war and rebuilding itself politically so they were mostly concerned inwards than outwards. They however were more favourable to the Axis than the Allies given how they bordered the Soviet Union and viewed communism as a threat
conflicts over the transition to civilian government for the Eastern Reichskommissariats
Unless some change in leadership happened the Reichskomissariats would've been administered by NSDAP upper brass and wouldn't have been transitioned to civilian governments as the population was to be Germanized or deported past the AA line and later have their polities absorbed into Germany proper tbh
Would occupied Belgium be transferred to a civilian government and annexed immediately after decisive victory at the Eastern front?
I'm fairly certain I read somewhere that Hitler wanted to annex Flanders (and the Netherlands) into Germany and give Wallonia to France
especially would make sense in your map as "compensation" for Alsace Lorraine and a little bit beyond being taken
 
I'm fairly certain I read somewhere that Hitler wanted to annex Flanders (and the Netherlands) into Germany and give Wallonia to France
especially would make sense in your map as "compensation" for Alsace Lorraine and a little bit beyond being taken
I think I read that Hitler wanted to revert the French German border to the historical French-HRE according to Peter Liberman and what I've read about Zone Interdite after the rapid fall of France

Which is why I don't think Hitler or anyone in the top brass had any intention of "compensating" France, especially after they secured all fronts in WW2
 
I think I read that Hitler wanted to revert the French German border to the historical French-HRE according to Peter Liberman and what I've read about Zone Interdite after the rapid fall of France
What he wanted to do and what he could do were both different things, Hitler was unironically a pragmatist (before war with France he believed abandoning German claims to Alsace-Lorraine would've been the ideal course for peace in Europe, as he says in Mein Kampf) so I imagine he would've been relatively careful towards avoiding a revanchist France, frankly.
 
What he wanted to do and what he could do were both different things, Hitler was unironically a pragmatist (before war with France he believed abandoning German claims to Alsace-Lorraine would've been the ideal course for peace in Europe, as he says in Mein Kampf) so I imagine he would've been relatively careful towards avoiding a revanchist France, frankly.
He wouldn't have to be careful after securing European hegemony, especially after he knocks every Great Power except Britain out of the ranks

the Nazis had the capability to effect economic exploitation of Western Europe almost matching Germany without provoking mass resistance from political atomization

I believe Zone Interdite (old Burgundy,Nord Pas de Calais, Wallonia, and perhaps Picardy) was intended for the deportation of most of the French for Germanic recolonization, but was put on hold due to ongoing war in the Eastern Front
 
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the Nazis had the capability to effect economic exploitation of Western Europe almost matching Germany without provoking mass resistance from political atomization
The problem comes from a what I think is an inevitable German-Italian split with the Italians potentially taking all of the Balkans and Spain alongside them, and France being an important pawn that could swing to the Italians if they're still seething tbh. I think most Nazi foreign ministers would've noticed this possibility
though idk how that would play out exactly, if who knows what could happen if Germany keeps their troops in France like the Soviets did. maybe a Hungary 1956 situation could happen idk
 
i'm pretty good at WW2 history, if you have anything specific ask me
Why did the Germans have a bad surface Navy? Compared to the Royal Navy they really were outmatched especially after the sinking of the Bismarck making them shift towards U-boats for convoy raiding in the Atlantic.
 
The problem comes from a what I think is an inevitable German-Italian split with the Italians potentially taking all of the Balkans and Spain alongside them, and France being an important pawn that could swing to the Italians if they're still seething tbh. I think most Nazi foreign ministers would've noticed this possibility
though idk how that would play out exactly, if who knows what could happen if Germany keeps their troops in France like the Soviets did. maybe a Hungary 1956 situation could happen idk
Italy seized Corsica, Nice, Savoy, and Tunisia in Operation Attila after the U.S. and Great Britain landed troops in French Africa as part of Operation Torch

Germany annexes Belgium+Nord Pas de Calais and Zone Interdite, while the rest of France is occupied by the military

Due to winning against the USSR before winter (never industrialized in this timeline), they were able to free troops to overwhelm Egypt and secure a land connection to Italian East Africa, whole holding Algeria and Morocco against the allies

Unfortunately, the rest of French Africa beyond the Saharah Desert is liberated by the allies due to overstretched axis supply lines
 
Why did the Germans have a bad surface Navy? Compared to the Royal Navy they really were outmatched especially after the sinking of the Bismarck making them shift towards U-boats.
Not a whole lot of time to rebuild their cucked navy following WW1, really. It's far harder to build a navy from scratch than either an army or an air force. Would've been a much closer fight if they had a few more years to prepare, but alas
 
Due to winning against the USSR before winter (never industrialized in this timeline)
Leninists stayed in power in this TL instead of Stalin and his boys
 
Not a whole lot of time to rebuild their cucked navy following WW1, really. It's far harder to build a navy from scratch than either an army or an air force. Would've been a much closer fight if they had a few more years to prepare, but alas
Hmm, what about say the Luftwaffe against the RAF? Considering they switched focus to attacking cities instead of Military bases during the Battle of Britain.
 
Hmm, what about say the Luftwaffe against the RAF? Considering they switched focus to attacking cities instead of Military bases during the Battle of Britain.
exactly because they didn't attack military bases or industry is why the British recovered while the Germans didn't
they basically wanted to do an early version of Shock and Awe tbh, didn't work
 
exactly because they didn't attack military bases or industry is why the British recovered while the Germans didn't
they basically wanted to do an early version of Shock and Awe tbh, didn't work
What about Operation Sea Lion? I think they could really never invade the British Isles because like I mentioned previously the Germans really had a bad surface fleet so crossing the English channel would basically be suicide.
 
What about Operation Sea Lion? I think they could really never invade the British Isles because like I mentioned previously the Germans really had a bad surface fleet so crossing the English channel would basically be suicide.
unrealistic, only way I could imagine it happening is if you fluff up your timeline with a bunch of stuff to weaken the British somehow
 
Leninists stayed in power in this TL instead of Stalin and his boys
Probably the so called Rightists like Bukharin and Kalinin won the power struggle or at least kept their posts as part of the collective leadership
 
unrealistic, only way I could imagine it happening is if you fluff up your timeline with a bunch of stuff to weaken the British somehow
I think that is unrealistic as well, which is why Great Britain will become the Cuba of my new timeline with hostile American forces + Ballistic missiles stationed in UK
 
I think that is unrealistic as well, which is why Great Britain will become the Cuba of my new timeline with hostile American forces + Ballistic missiles stationed in UK
Is this like a Timeline of a longer phony war?
 
Is this like a Timeline of a longer phony war?
Naval arms race btw America and Great Britain on one hand, and Nazi Germany on the other in the North Sea

Italy will remain on the sidelines as they have achieved Mare Nostrum in the Mediterranean as Gibraltar and the Suez Canal are either under their direct control or a client state (Spain)

Proxy wars occur frequently in Africa, as the Germans clandestinely supports pro independence groups to undermine the British and Free French, which causes tension between the German Foreign Ministry and the Nazi Party Office of Racial Policy domestically and the Italians as well due to their own colonial holdings being potentially radicalized

Germany will try to secretly station modified V2 missiles in Argentina
 
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Doubt the Reich would have been able to conquer and annex that much of Russia. Arkhanglesk is the farthest east they would have gone imo and even that’s pushing it.
 
Doubt the Reich would have been able to conquer and annex that much of Russia. Arkhanglesk is the farthest east they would have gone imo and even that’s pushing it.
This is a timeline where the Rightists (Bukharin and Kalinin) either won the power struggle outright, or deadlocked Stalin in a collective leadership, with the USSR remaining a backwards, semi-industrialized state barely above Imperial Russia 1914 in absolute terms
 
@Horatio Alger What is the status of Japan and east Asia in this scenario?
 
This is a timeline where the Rightists (Bukharin and Kalinin) either won the power struggle outright, or deadlocked Stalin in a collective leadership, with the USSR remaining a backwards, semi-industrialized state barely above Imperial Russia 1914 in absolute terms
I think he means it would be very difficult to occupy that much undeveloped land, all the way to the urals. Especially if the Russians don't like you.
 
I think he means it would be very difficult to occupy that much undeveloped land, all the way to the urals. Especially if the Russians don't like you.
Most of them would be forcibly killed off in the Hunger Plan to fulfill Hitler's Lebensraum

By the end of 1941, plans to starve the entire civilian population of some areas had been abandoned, due to the failure of the German military campaign[1]
 
@Horatio Alger What is the status of Japan and east Asia in this scenario?
Japan would succeed in establishing a Co-Propserity Sphere since the U.S. has its hands full keeping Great Britain afloat through subsidies and military support and suppressing pro-independence guerillas in Africa
 
This is a timeline where the Rightists (Bukharin and Kalinin) either won the power struggle outright, or deadlocked Stalin in a collective leadership, with the USSR remaining a backwards, semi-industrialized state barely above Imperial Russia 1914 in absolute terms
Yes, but even if the Soviet state collapsed completely at the end of the Soviet-German war, leaving a power vacuum. I doubt that the Germans would have had the logistical capabilities or the motivation to occupy everything up to the Urals. They would probably have occupied everything from Arkhangelsk to Volgograd, established a front line, and left the rest of Russia to its fate.
 
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Japan would succeed in establishing a Co-Propserity Sphere since the U.S. has its hands full keeping Great Britain afloat through subsidies and military support and suppressing pro-independence guerillas in Africa
So what about pearl harbor and the Philippines? Did the USA just lose or let it slide?
 
Yes, but even the Soviet state collapsed completely at the end of the Soviet-German war, leaving a power vacuum. I doubt that the Germans would have had the logistical capabilities or the motivation to occupy everything up to the Urals. They would probably have occupied everything from Arkhangelsk to Volgograd, established a front line, and left the rest of Russia to its fate.
I imagine most of Russia would be under a state of Polish chaos, with the Nazis forcibly mass killing or starving as many Russians as possible instead of governing them
 
So what about pearl harbor and the Philippines? Did the USA just lose or let it slide?
Too busy trying to save Great Britain and contain the Nazis, since the USSR is dead in this timeline

All of this happens before the US is able to fully mobilize its economy
 
Sorry if this was already explained but what happens to the caucuses and the RKs?
 
The soviets were doing massive counter attacks for the entire war with heavy losses and still won.

Hitler should have never attacked the soviet union.

If he was concerned with the british naval blockade of continental europe he could have just seized french and polish farmland to feed germany. The allies would have starved to death the french, dutch, belgians, and poles long before the germans. That would have allowed for germany to stockpile romanian oil for a long time and eventually develop nuclear weapons.

Same with Japan. They should have backed off of china when america demanded that they back off. Instead they chose to attack america and invade the pacific islands. Wrong move.

If the germans and japanese used basic logic they would still have empires today. Germany would control most of europe and Japan most of China/korea. Basic logic was that the Anglos had a multicentury head start in empire as far as capturing the world. That means if you're gonna contend against that you're hoping for miracles after miracles and so you're not likely to succeed.

They got what they deserved for making catastrophically stupid decisions.

The chinese are playing the long game right now.
 
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Sorry if this was already explained but what happens to the caucuses and the RKs?
Opportunistically declared independence as soon as the USSR collapsed, Germany negotiates lopsided deals for oil from Baku
 
@Horatio Alger Who gains nukes first in this timeline? Germany?
 
Opportunistically declared independence as soon as the USSR collapsed, Germany negotiates lopsided deals for oil from Baku
I feel Germany should've invaded the caucus instead of up to the urals because it has much more usable land, resources, and occupiable cities. Would've been a much greater reward to loss of military expenditure
 
@Horatio Alger Who gains nukes first in this timeline? Germany?
Germany's Kaiser Wilhelm society of scientists is too focused on "pure" research and disdains experimental research that was vital for the Manhattan Project, while Hitler is too worried about a nuclear chain reaction burning the atmosphere and his 1,000 year Reich with it

Americans develop the bomb first just like in this timeline, revealing that nuclear explosions WON'T burn the atmosphere, and the Kaiser Wilhelm society is forced to do experimental research by a panicking Hitler

(Minor German city gets nuked also)

Nazi Germany gains the atomic bomb around the late 1940s
 
I feel Germany should've invaded the caucus instead of up to the urals because it has much more usable land, resources, and occupiable cities. Would've been a much greater reward to loss of military expenditure
The Caucasian republics already declared independence + renounced communism, so the Germans were willing to negotiate by the time their military reaches the Caucasus Mountains
 
Germany will try to secretly station modified V2 missiles in Argentina
Dominican Republic would also be another good spot since their dictator at the time had fascist sympathies (don't ask him what he thought of the Haitians)
 
Dominican Republic would also be another good spot since their dictator at the time had fascist sympathies (don't ask him what he thought of the Haitians)
Oohhh... That makes more sense

I wonder how a U.S. invasion would fare considering they share a land border with Haiti
 
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View attachment 1475733

I already mapped out the rough basics of the lore for this alr history map, but I'll write that out in a future post since 1. editing maps on a phone is time consuming and resets every time you exit the app 2. switching tabs online for research is a bitch on a mobile phone 3. I can type it out much faster and load detailed maps much faster on a PC (which I don't have rn)

I was wondering if some knowledgeable history buffs/stormfrontcels with intimate knowledge of German territorial aims + foreign policy goals of minor powers can help me out

@DarkStar @Castaway @pedrolopezwasright
As I understand, the grey is the lebensraum right?
 

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