Written by @lati.qod9221 as a response to a Thinking-Ape video:
"1. Most of the pron addiction' narrative stuff is overblown, and largely exists demonize men and male sexuality.
Birthing persons and social media, on the other hand, much more closely resemble an actual addiction.
You don't see men watching pron on their phones while driving, while out shopping, while in elevators, while in the hospital, while on a date, etc. You do see birthing persons on social media on their phones in all of these same situations, however. The overwhelming majority of men spend no more than 30 minutes watching pron - and that's a high estimate while birthing persons are on their phones 24/7. Most men that think they're 'pron addicts' are men that are religious and believe any kind of use of pron is bad, and they think their normal, healthy sex drive is an 'addiction." Even if you claim that the birthing persons equivalent would be reading erotica and fan fiction, they're still not really comparable, in my opinion, because the effects appear to be different, from what I can see and its not a case of "muh both sides."
2. In fiction, I don't really have a problem with wish fulfillment. That stuff can be entertaining to a degree. What I find most interesting, however, is that in male wish fulfillment in anime, the male protagonist always has to have at least something that the birthing persons in his 'harem" find appealing about him, even if it's just that he's very kind and thoughtful. He has to have at least some redeeming quality. In wish fulfillment for birthing persons, on the other hand, the F protagonist has, at best, absolutely no redeeming qualities. and, at worst, is an evil person. Notice also that in the male wish fulfillment, the male protagonist has to have some qualities that birthing persons. consider appealing. Male wish fulfillment is being the kind of man birthing persons desire, while birthing person wish fulfillment is being a nobody - or, worse, someone completely rotten - and being chosen by someone they don't deserve and that's way out of their league; an entirely one-sided relationship..
3. Something that appears to be very distinct in F fan fiction is blurred lines and straight-up very non-consensual content. I see this way, way more in stuff aimed at birthing persons than men. That's why I'm not convinced that the lesbian
thing is the male equivalent of birthing persons into straight guys that "become gay. If anything, I think that it's much darker than that. It's not so much because 'birthing persons are just weird and kind of gay like that but that it has more to do with the non-consensual aspect of it. Again, non-consensual content in pron is something men get blamed for by feminists, but that's only because, as usual, they project their own taboo/ negative/stigmatized behaviors onto men.
4. Also, I don't really agree with the summary of birthing persons in pron and men's interest in it. Most of those things like the birthing persons being into variety, being adventurous, etc. are all very genre specific. It's like saying, "Movies always have fight scenes, car chases, and lots of explosions"; all of those things are more specific to action films. Also, young men don't think birthing persons are actually like that. That's a common feminist myth. Men don't have unrealistic expectations from pron, but birthing persons absolutely do have unrealistic expectations from erotica. There's no "male and female version of it"; there's just one version of it, and it's the birthing person version. I've heard this argument before, but it just sounds like "muh both sideism to me.
5. Also, when it comes to men and birthing persons projecting their behaviors onto each other, there is a fundamental difference because men project their own positive traits onto birthing person - when those traits aren't actually there and act like they're not male traits but just "human" traits. Meanwhile, birthing persons project their own negative traits onto men and pretend they don't have those traits, themselves. Men do have a weird idea of how the other gender operates, but it's not because of pron; it's because of gynocentrism."
This comment is just so based.
"1. Most of the pron addiction' narrative stuff is overblown, and largely exists demonize men and male sexuality.
Birthing persons and social media, on the other hand, much more closely resemble an actual addiction.
You don't see men watching pron on their phones while driving, while out shopping, while in elevators, while in the hospital, while on a date, etc. You do see birthing persons on social media on their phones in all of these same situations, however. The overwhelming majority of men spend no more than 30 minutes watching pron - and that's a high estimate while birthing persons are on their phones 24/7. Most men that think they're 'pron addicts' are men that are religious and believe any kind of use of pron is bad, and they think their normal, healthy sex drive is an 'addiction." Even if you claim that the birthing persons equivalent would be reading erotica and fan fiction, they're still not really comparable, in my opinion, because the effects appear to be different, from what I can see and its not a case of "muh both sides."
2. In fiction, I don't really have a problem with wish fulfillment. That stuff can be entertaining to a degree. What I find most interesting, however, is that in male wish fulfillment in anime, the male protagonist always has to have at least something that the birthing persons in his 'harem" find appealing about him, even if it's just that he's very kind and thoughtful. He has to have at least some redeeming quality. In wish fulfillment for birthing persons, on the other hand, the F protagonist has, at best, absolutely no redeeming qualities. and, at worst, is an evil person. Notice also that in the male wish fulfillment, the male protagonist has to have some qualities that birthing persons. consider appealing. Male wish fulfillment is being the kind of man birthing persons desire, while birthing person wish fulfillment is being a nobody - or, worse, someone completely rotten - and being chosen by someone they don't deserve and that's way out of their league; an entirely one-sided relationship..
3. Something that appears to be very distinct in F fan fiction is blurred lines and straight-up very non-consensual content. I see this way, way more in stuff aimed at birthing persons than men. That's why I'm not convinced that the lesbian
thing is the male equivalent of birthing persons into straight guys that "become gay. If anything, I think that it's much darker than that. It's not so much because 'birthing persons are just weird and kind of gay like that but that it has more to do with the non-consensual aspect of it. Again, non-consensual content in pron is something men get blamed for by feminists, but that's only because, as usual, they project their own taboo/ negative/stigmatized behaviors onto men.
4. Also, I don't really agree with the summary of birthing persons in pron and men's interest in it. Most of those things like the birthing persons being into variety, being adventurous, etc. are all very genre specific. It's like saying, "Movies always have fight scenes, car chases, and lots of explosions"; all of those things are more specific to action films. Also, young men don't think birthing persons are actually like that. That's a common feminist myth. Men don't have unrealistic expectations from pron, but birthing persons absolutely do have unrealistic expectations from erotica. There's no "male and female version of it"; there's just one version of it, and it's the birthing person version. I've heard this argument before, but it just sounds like "muh both sideism to me.
5. Also, when it comes to men and birthing persons projecting their behaviors onto each other, there is a fundamental difference because men project their own positive traits onto birthing person - when those traits aren't actually there and act like they're not male traits but just "human" traits. Meanwhile, birthing persons project their own negative traits onto men and pretend they don't have those traits, themselves. Men do have a weird idea of how the other gender operates, but it's not because of pron; it's because of gynocentrism."
This comment is just so based.
